[Mike Matson]

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and...cc4c03286.html

Excerpt from article:

Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials have authorized the killing of up to nine wolves south of Darby after recent attacks on a horse and a calf.

The horse was killed within 200 yards of the Two Feathers Ranch manager's home Thursday night. The ranch is about 1 1/2 miles south of Darby.

"Our favorite horse was killed by a wolf last night," said ranch owner Paul Shirley. "He was always the one who would come up for treats and we could give kids rides on him without any worry."

The quarter horse was named Jack.

"The wolves ran him through a fence and then tore his guts out," Shirley said. "It was terrible. ... These wolves are on our property most nights, and I'm terrified for my animals. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with my livestock."

[TSWJB]

i would be devastated if that happened to my horse. he was such a nice looking horse.
i often hear the coyotes howling at night where i board. they have never come up to the barn, but the barn owner told me that he would see them wandering around in the back fields where they make hay.
are coyotes dangerous?

[Ridewithnopride]

Coyotes are not dangerous. They are much smaller than wolves.

I am very sorry about what happened to your horse. Was he/she turned out alone? It would help to prevent attacks like that if in a large herd.

Also, is OP positive it was wolves? As sad as this story is wolves are becoming dangerously eliminated from those regions. I'm sure OP feels like getting rid of all of them but they are a vital part of our ecosystem.

Again, I am very sorry about the horse. That is dreadful!

[rizzodm]

The coyotes where I live have gotten big. My friend came across one while on a walk and it was large and confrontational. She was able to back away safely and was not hurt. She was shooken up by it and thought maybe it was a female and her babies were nearby but she was surprised at the size of it. I don't think they would bother livestock but I think they have been snacking on the small dogs and cats around here as they appear to be well fed.

[mildot]

but they are a vital part of our ecosystem.

Ummm, no.

We got along fine for decades without them.

Human predation can take their place and it is much more targeted and effectively managed.

SSS

[Eye in the Sky]

Coyotes are not dangerous. They are much smaller than wolves.

Um, yea, they are. One pack ran a VERY nice filly to the point if her breaking her leg.

[blazn]

Ridewithnopride, where do you live? Wolves are certainly not becoming dangerously eliminated from Idaho.

[classicsporthorses]

Sorry have to adamently disagree with JER2 on this. Wolves ARE a vital part of our ecosystem and we do need apex predators in our ecosystem and I am not talking about humans. It's humans who have messed it up. We fail to recognize that we are within their territory and we are and must live among them, just as we should with all wildlife.

Lest we forget we are not that far up on the food chain and we are not apex predator. Take away our guns, 4-wheelers and cars and we are prey. If we are hell bent on destroying any threatening apex predator (Like the wolf or saw sharks), this imbalance has consequences.

If cattle ARE killed by wolves, and it's proven it was done by wolves, then these cattlemen are paid handsomly for the loss, trust me they are.

Take a look at the world red list of endangered species or extinct species (flora and fauna) and it is a stark reminder how fragile a planet we live on.

While no one will admit it wolves have returned to the Adirondacks of NYS, I welcome it. We have far to many white tail deer and coyotes (who get larger every year).

[CosMonster]

Coyotes are not dangerous. They are much smaller than wolves.

I am very sorry about what happened to your horse. Was he/she turned out alone? It would help to prevent attacks like that if in a large herd.

Also, is OP positive it was wolves? As sad as this story is wolves are becoming dangerously eliminated from those regions. I'm sure OP feels like getting rid of all of them but they are a vital part of our ecosystem.

Again, I am very sorry about the horse. That is dreadful!

Just so you know since I see you're new here, this OP (Mike Matson) tends to post interesting links and videos here. I'm pretty sure it wasn't his horse that was attacked.

[Guilherme]

Sorry have to adamently disagree with JER2 on this. Wolves ARE a vital part of our ecosystem and we do need apex predators in our ecosystem and I am not talking about humans. It's humans who have messed it up. We fail to recognize that we are within their territory and we are and must live among them, just as we should with all wildlife.

Lest we forget we are not that far up on the food chain and we are not apex predator. Take away our guns, 4-wheelers and cars and we are prey. If we are hell bent on destroying any threatening apex predator (Like the wolf or saw sharks), this imbalance has consequences.

If cattle ARE killed by wolves, and it's proven it was done by wolves, then these cattlemen are paid handsomly for the loss, trust me they are.

Take a look at the world red list of endangered species or extinct species (flora and fauna) and it is a stark reminder how fragile a planet we live on.

While no one will admit it wolves have returned to the Adirondacks of NYS, I welcome it. We have far to many white tail deer and coyotes (who get larger every year).

Our ancestors eliminated large predators from most areas east of the Big Muddy for a very good reason, i.e., protection of livestock. That reason remains today.

I guess in NY where you surrender your rights to protect yourself and your family and your property to the State then you see yourself as "prey." In more primative and unsophisticated regions we still possess the means, and the will, to protect human life and property.

Good on the Montana authorities for shunning PC.

G.

[Bluey]

Sorry have to adamently disagree with JER2 on this. Wolves ARE a vital part of our ecosystem and we do need apex predators in our ecosystem and I am not talking about humans. It's humans who have messed it up. We fail to recognize that we are within their territory and we are and must live among them, just as we should with all wildlife.

Lest we forget we are not that far up on the food chain and we are not apex predator. Take away our guns, 4-wheelers and cars and we are prey. If we are hell bent on destroying any threatening apex predator (Like the wolf or saw sharks), this imbalance has consequences.

If cattle ARE killed by wolves, and it's proven it was done by wolves, then these cattlemen are paid handsomly for the loss, trust me they are.

Take a look at the world red list of endangered species or extinct species (flora and fauna) and it is a stark reminder how fragile a planet we live on.

While no one will admit it wolves have returned to the Adirondacks of NYS, I welcome it. We have far to many white tail deer and coyotes (who get larger every year).

You really believe all that and that cattlemen are paid handsomely?
Will that rancher be paid for his horse and calf and all others wolves kill that can't be documented?

I love those Easterns that live in nice places, well protected after centuries without serious predation and then want to tell others how they should live.
We have had the rare wolf come by here and would like to have the right to shoot it if it decides to make itself at home here and eat our cattle or horses or whatever is ours to care for and defend.
Luckily, they have been traveling ones and moved on to the mountains.

Do you also think mice in your pantry and crocoaches in your kitchen are part of the enviroment and you protect them?

[Ajierene]

A disclaimer: I watched this program almost a decade ago.

A show was on about wolves and how they are endangered in some areas. One rancher actually put dead cattle out on the edge of their property to welcome the wolves back.

What they found was that the wolves culled their herd for them, taking out the to old, sick and weak. I am assuming they lost some calves in the process, but apparently it was worth it for those ranchers.

I always though that was interesting considering how most ranchers feel about wolves.

[Bluey]

A disclaimer: I watched this program almost a decade ago.

A show was on about wolves and how they are endangered in some areas. One rancher actually put dead cattle out on the edge of their property to welcome the wolves back.

What they found was that the wolves culled their herd for them, taking out the to old, sick and weak. I am assuming they lost some calves in the process, but apparently it was worth it for those ranchers.

I always though that was interesting considering how most ranchers feel about wolves.

I wonder who made that documentary.
What you state doesn't make sense, because there are no cattle that need culling by wolves in herds.

[cowboymom]

A disclaimer: I watched this program almost a decade ago.

A show was on about wolves and how they are endangered in some areas. One rancher actually put dead cattle out on the edge of their property to welcome the wolves back.

What they found was that the wolves culled their herd for them, taking out the to old, sick and weak. I am assuming they lost some calves in the process, but apparently it was worth it for those ranchers.

I always though that was interesting considering how most ranchers feel about wolves.

Um... a real rancher is usually pretty good about culling out the old, sick and weak. That leaves the young for the wolves to cull for him.

Reintroducing the wolves into this modern day version of an ecosystem was animal abuse, all around. Lots of dogs, sheep, cows, elk, deer, coyotes and wolves have been killed-and the wolves are just doing what wolves do but there's just way too many of them. They've thrived beyond all expectations and now the system is top heavy-more predators than prey. The elk are knocked for a loop and if people keep trying to run ranchers out of business the wolves won't even have cows to eat any more. The sheep are already nearly gone. It was a Pandora's box that took off better than wolf biologists apparently anticipated.

Here, 200 miles east of Missoula, I would not expect any trouble at all from coyotes. But I sure wouldn't be telling the newspapers about any wolves that showed up on my place.

[Bluey]

Um... a real rancher is usually pretty good about culling out the old, sick and weak. That leaves the young for the wolves to cull for him.

Reintroducing the wolves into this modern day version of an ecosystem was animal abuse, all around. Lots of dogs, sheep, cows, elk, deer, coyotes and wolves have been killed-and the wolves are just doing what wolves do but there's just way too many of them. They've thrived beyond all expectations and now the system is top heavy-more predators than prey. The elk are knocked for a loop and if people keep trying to run ranchers out of business the wolves won't even have cows to eat any more. The sheep are already nearly gone. It was a Pandora's box that took off better than wolf biologists apparently anticipated.

Here, 200 miles east of Missoula, I would not expect any trouble at all from coyotes. But I sure wouldn't be telling the newspapers about any wolves that showed up on my place.

A real rancher will not have let his cattle get too old, sick or weak anyway, except the very rare time an old cow just keeps finding an excuse to stick around and then she is getting extra care so she is not getting too weak.

[cowboymom]

I'm not too sure of your point there, Bluey. I don't know of any ranchers that can stop their cows from aging or getting sick. Too old to keep in the herd isn't always the same thing as too old to fight off a pack of wolves! And a cow can recover from illness without having the wolves take her out before the cure kicks in! lol My point was that a real rancher would make the cull decisions before letting a pack of wolves would do it.

[Bluey]

I'm not too sure of your point there, Bluey. I don't know of any ranchers that can stop their cows from aging or getting sick. Too old to keep in the herd isn't always the same thing as too old to fight off a pack of wolves! And a cow can recover from illness without having the wolves take her out before the cure kicks in! lol My point was that a real rancher would make the cull decisions before letting a pack of wolves would do it.

That was my point also.

Letting wolves cull your herd, the way they go about bringing prey down, more than one and eating on them while still alive and some times leaving them once full, there half eaten and still alive some of them?

We come across that with coyotes, would not be pleasant to see what the bigger predator wolves are can do.

[cowboymom]

I thought we were on the same page.

When we ran sheep we dreaded when the coyotes were teaching the pups to hunt-despite our best efforts we would sometimes lose a bunch in a day, lambs and ewes brought down, chewed up and left to die while the coyotes moved on to another.

Wolves are powerful weapons...not to be taken lightly. I feel bad for all involved when I hear about the wolves getting in trouble and the losses the ranchers get and then they get mired in red tape trying to follow through. I've heard those wolves howl when we were in the mountains and it's an amazing thing... but then weeks later I read in the paper that the pack I heard got into cattle and were shot by gov't officials. Just a mess, all around.

[cowboymom]

As a rule, I'm not afraid of coyotes at all.

but a friend of my husband's was bitten on the heel by a coyote-as a teenager walking home through the fields and dropping into a cottonwood draw he stepped in the middle of a pack of coyotes feeding on something and they escorted him off the property; he got a bite on the foot in the process.

[sunridge1]

A disclaimer: I watched this program almost a decade ago.

A show was on about wolves and how they are endangered in some areas. One rancher actually put dead cattle out on the edge of their property to welcome the wolves back.

What they found was that the wolves culled their herd for them, taking out the to old, sick and weak. I am assuming they lost some calves in the process, but apparently it was worth it for those ranchers.

I always though that was interesting considering how most ranchers feel about wolves.

That was the man that developed the Beefmaster. Love his story using the natural environment to cull. Awesome!