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  1. #21
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshach View Post
    yes, I like that the bar is set so very low -- if you can get them to walk in a straight line it's a successful day. if you are still saying that when they're 10, then you have a problem.

    I agree. Although my last one would walk straight....just didn't turn left.....kinda of still has trouble with that sometimes
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  2. #22
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    Jan. 13, 2000
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    930

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    ha! And I was just thinking -- hmm, who has trouble going straight down centerline during a test? me! so maybe I should rethink my statement ...



  3. #23
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    Sep. 8, 1999
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    Libertyville, IL USA
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    ^^LOL! So true.



  4. #24
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Yes, he specializes in mules and problem horses.
    Mules and problem horses... as if those two categories had anything in common!

    Casper would be so offended.

    Please post pics of his progress. I love mules.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2002
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    where the grass is greener
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    706

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    Just had my young horse started by an event rider.
    I loved her attitude with him and after 4 months all the basics are so there - walk, trot, canter, balanced turns, rides out alone in the big grass field, goes on trails and likes to lead, cantering over poles and going thru water (he did that before any training!)

    Granted this guy was easy as pie and quiet, quiet, quiet. She left his face alone, let him figure out how to balance himself and now he's light as air in your hand.
    He still pokes his nose out a bit but he has the biggest, swinging walk and stands like a rock to mount and fiddle with stirrups.

    I couldn't be more pleased, his mind is so open and eager and he's curious about everything, even something spooky. He'll look at me like "Mom, did you see THAT? Let's go over and sniff it!"

    He's home for the summer to think about everything, grow some more and go on the occassional trail ride.
    You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts!



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,843

    Default The facility more than the discipline

    The best start was an event trainer as she had the best facility to get a horse going forward and outside. Most dressage trainers don't go out side enough, both jumper and dressage live and die inside a ring, I want forward and free not forward and pushed at first and riding out is the best for green horses. My perfect start is the one where they get out of the ring as soon as is reasonably possible. OUT OUT OUT! PatO



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2010
    Location
    West Michigan
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    447

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    I do not think of dressage as advanced movements but in the strict sense it is a training method, or as Michel Shaffer says- a method of teaching horses the most efficient way to carry a rider. Klimkeā€™s stages of training start as soon as you back them. That is why I would consider a good dressage trainer to be a benefit. Not so much that the training has to be different but that the trainer, herself, may have a better understanding of how to help the horse to learn balance and to move relaxed, all other things equal. The question is more about the understanding the disciplines bring to the equation.
    THIS ^^^

    And to whomever said "Young horses don't 'do' dressage"...I think you've missed the whole point of Dressage or are looking at it only in a competitive sense, and not what it is Intended to be....which is a progressive and systematic approach to training... a system that most definitnely has a very basic beginning structure.

    After spending 3 years as the assistant trainer to a 3*** Eventer/2012 Developing Rider I can say that I fully see the value of giving horses a very strong Dressage base before introducing any jumping. In my expereince (and my back ground was about 15 years in H/J before coming over to Dressage) horses are FAR easier to train O/F when they have a solid foundation of Flatwork/Dressage (whatever you want to call it in this context) and most horses started over fences without regard to strong flatwork training first are usually the ones we have to "fix".

    Horses can jump. If you can ride between the fences, the rest comes easy. It drives me nuts how many people are in such a rush to have them jumping as fast and as high as they can in as little time as possible.

    And, as mentioned above, Dressage is becoming more and more important and many events are won in the Dressage ring...
    Concordia means "Harmony" in Latin.
    Full Time Dressage Addict



  8. #28
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    Sep. 8, 1999
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    Libertyville, IL USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia View Post

    In my expereince (and my back ground was about 15 years in H/J before coming over to Dressage) horses are FAR easier to train O/F when they have a solid foundation of Flatwork/Dressage (whatever you want to call it in this context) and most horses started over fences without regard to strong flatwork training first are usually the ones we have to "fix".
    So really, it is not the jumping you have a problem with, it is bad flatwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia View Post
    Horses can jump. If you can ride between the fences, the rest comes easy. It drives me nuts how many people are in such a rush to have them jumping as fast and as high as they can in as little time as possible.
    And it drives me nuts how many people think that a horse has to be performing at first level before it can canter a 2'6" course. Of course horses can jump, and they can be easily ruined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia View Post
    And, as mentioned above, Dressage is becoming more and more important and many events are won in the Dressage ring...
    And they are lost in the jumping phase. Please view 2011 Rolex results if you have any doubt about that.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2011
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    77

    Default Want some more formal advice?

    Pippa Funnell and Sally O'Connor each have books in print on starting young event horses that contain some of the advice given here as well as specific training for different developmental aspects.


    Training the Young Horse by Pippa Funnell


    Practical Eventing by Sally O'Connor



  10. #30
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia View Post
    And to whomever said "Young horses don't 'do' dressage"...I think you've missed the whole point of Dressage or are looking at it only in a competitive sense, and not what it is Intended to be....which is a progressive and systematic approach to training... a system that most definitnely has a very basic beginning structure.
    That was me who said that, and I explained how I meant it. I don't think the repetition and stresses of dressage are the most effective or appropriate form of training for a 3 or 4 year-old.

    Event horses need to be able to think for themselves and look after themselves and their riders. This is what I want to encourage from Day 1. Certain things are of paramount importance -- forward, straightness -- but the 'on the bit' business can wait. And I'll always, always take an independent thinker over a submissive type. Like Gry said, the horse has its whole life to learn dressage.

    As for between fences, young/green horses can take a long time to have the adjustability in the canter to jump a technical course, even one of low height. But you don't have to wait for that to start them on jumping exercises or doing easy courses in a mix of trot and canter.



  11. #31
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    Nov. 3, 2003
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    Michigan
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    If I had a choice, I'd probably send one to an event rider who would give them the proper basics and hack them out a bit, introduce tiny jumps, etc. However, I bought my youngster as a coming 4 year old from a H/J trainer (who started her). She is now 5, and I must admit--I am loving how easy she has been for me to jump. As Gry2Yng said:
    Send them to a good hunter/jumper program. A young event horse needs learn to be confident over fences and develop the best form it possibly can before they good out into the world of "just get it done".
    I have had to work on bending, suppleness, and throughness with this horse in our dressage work. But, she is SO honest about her jumping. We have moved right along because the jumping (x-c and stadium) has really been no big deal. Luckily, I am a stronger dressage rider, so for ME--this is ideal. I can work on the dressage, and she can cart my arse over fences. I DID have to introduce her to x-c jumps, and hacking out (the H/J trainer never took her out) but it was easy, and she was super brave and sensible.

    So, like others said--choose someone who is good at starting youngsters. Also someone who gives them confidence but also doesn't let them learn how to say "no".



  12. #32
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    Sep. 8, 1999
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    Libertyville, IL USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustbowl View Post
    Pippa Funnell and Sally O'Connor each have books in print on starting young event horses that contain some of the advice given here as well as specific training for different developmental aspects.


    Training the Young Horse by Pippa Funnell


    Practical Eventing by Sally O'Connor
    William Fox-Pitt also has a nice book on young horses.



  13. #33
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    Apr. 30, 2009
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    Canada
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    The flip side is the premise that an Eventing horse has to be brave and a bit of a rogue at heart. In some ways (becoming more so) Eventing has contradictory demands, which makes it really interesting. I guess it is like asking if a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes, - do you want a dressage type horse that can jump or a brave jumper that will put up with dressage, at the end it is still an eventer.
    This has been a helpful discussion.
    Most of it is academic as finding the good trainer is the hardest part anyway. BTW if any of you know of an exceptional trainer that starts young horses in Alberta, please let me know.



  14. #34
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    It's kind of like looking for a Kindergarten teacher who is better in Philosophy or Physics.

    You want one that is really, really great with kids and understands how they learn and develop and who LIKES that part of the job. Of course with kids you probably won't find Kindergarten teachers who can't stand young children and would rather be teaching Physics, but you get the idea. Trainers specialize, and I'd consider "bring up baby" an area of specialization.

    That said, if I wanted an eventer, I would look for an eventer to do the training, all things considered. Someone who "gets it" that a horse has to be well-rounded, confident out of the ring, and capable of switching gears mentally and physically.
    Click here before you buy.



  15. #35
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    Sep. 8, 1999
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    Libertyville, IL USA
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    "do you want a dressage type horse that can jump or a brave jumper that will put up with dressage, at the end it is still an eventer."

    You can find one that enjoys both aspects. I have found that the ones that enjoy their own athleticism and have a great work ethic, move easily back and forth, provided they are well started. Best of luck to you!



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