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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2008
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    78

    Red face Would you breed this mare?

    I'm a bit torn, and looking for some unbiased opinions.

    My absolute favorite mare is back in my barn. She was leased out as a riding horse, and that did not work out. I went to move her for her leasor from the boarding barn back to the leasor's place and found a mare about 100lbs underweight and suffering from pneumonia. Needless to say, she's come home and is well on her way to being healthy again.

    Being a riding horse is off the table, so we come back to breeding her again. Here is her background:

    Prior to me buying her, she had a colt and a filly. Both healthy. Colt was euthanized as a yearling after an incident involving barbed wire fencing.
    2005 - healthy filly for me
    2006 - colt, born with enlarged thyroids, vets never could figure out what it was. After weaning, he got sick, suspected rhodoccocus. Massive diarrhea and weight loss, we couldn't bring him back form that, he was euthanized at 7 months.
    2008 - colt born healthy, at 2 weeks of age fever and diarrhea, died 18 hours later after we took him to the clinic for treatment. Vet suspected clostridia. I was sure he had an infected navel, but was told it was hernia. Who knows..
    2010 - colt born healthy. At 6 weeks of age, he developed a fever. Took him to the University clinic. Diagnosis was never confirmed beyond pneumonia. He was treated in hospital for 6 weeks, and then again at home for another 6 weeks. He was on a slew of meds.

    I love this mare, and I love what she produces. Am I asking for it by breeding her again? Is it just coincidence or is it a sign?

    The vet at the University said that each case was completely unrelated, and it was just chance....



  2. #2
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    Mar. 20, 2010
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    Have her foals had good IgGs?



  3. #3
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    Aug. 26, 2006
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    North Central Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by GracefulHano View Post
    The vet at the University said that each case was completely unrelated, and it was just chance....
    I would seriously question this. There could be a number of contributing factors though including environmental (were they all born at the same farm, etc.). Did the 2010 colt pull through?



  4. #4
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
    Have her foals had good IgGs?
    This.



  5. #5
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    Jul. 18, 2008
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    Default

    All had perfect IgGs.

    And not all born at the same farm.

    2010 colt did pull through.



  6. #6
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Were all the basics covered, you said so for the IgG, but what about the navel, etc.?

    How did the actual births go? How as the mare cared for? All shots up to date, etc.?

    I also can't believe it is unrelated. Or that is one heck of an unlucky mare.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2005
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    Taking the multiple serious, often fatal infections her offspring have contracted to one side you say "being a riding horse is off the table". Since this is what most people want to buy what happened to her under saddle career? Is it a problem that she could pass on to her offspring should they get to riding age? Is she herself a good enough mare to be a broodmare?

    Now taking the multiple infections her offspring have contracted I'd be surprised if there was no link. There are too many similar sounding stories for it to be coincidence. There are many causes of a depressed immune system, very few of them can be tested for. With you 3 out of 4 foals have contracted life threatening infections. 2 have died. If she was mine I wouldn't want to risk that sort of heartbreak again.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2008
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    EM - she's been well cared for in my opinion. UTD on shots, deworming, foaled out with no problems. There was very little time that she was not in my care during her pregnancies.
    With the exception of the foal that passed away at 2 weeks of age, all navels have been great. I had questioned the 2008 colts navel, but the vet said not to worry its a hernia. He also refused to come out the night that foal had a fever, and after my insistance, he came out and told me to relax and get some sleep, the foal was fine. The next morning he could not stand, and hadn't nursed all night.

    stolensilver - I truly beleive she is 'good enough' to be a broodmare. She got great scores at her inspection, and her foals are correct, with great temperments, and her 2005 filly has gone on to a great under saddle career.

    I remember how heartbreaking it was to lose those babies, but the joy of having a foal and watching them grow overrides that. I was hoping that someone had a magical story that would calm my fears!



  9. #9
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    Mar. 20, 2010
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    If you do breed her again, maybe give the foal plasma regardless of how good the IgG is? That's my only suggestion!



  10. #10
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    Oct. 22, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by GracefulHano View Post
    EM - she's been well cared for in my opinion. UTD on shots, deworming, foaled out with no problems. There was very little time that she was not in my care during her pregnancies.
    With the exception of the foal that passed away at 2 weeks of age, all navels have been great. I had questioned the 2008 colts navel, but the vet said not to worry its a hernia. He also refused to come out the night that foal had a fever, and after my insistance, he came out and told me to relax and get some sleep, the foal was fine. The next morning he could not stand, and hadn't nursed all night.

    stolensilver - I truly beleive she is 'good enough' to be a broodmare. She got great scores at her inspection, and her foals are correct, with great temperments, and her 2005 filly has gone on to a great under saddle career.

    I remember how heartbreaking it was to lose those babies, but the joy of having a foal and watching them grow overrides that. I was hoping that someone had a magical story that would calm my fears!
    My first though is get a new vet!
    .



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2008
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    BGH - Don't worry, I had a new vet the next day!!

    Callaway - I will discuss that option with my vet. Thanks.



  12. #12
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    Apr. 8, 2009
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    Out of interest, are all the foals by the same sire?



  13. #13
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    Jul. 18, 2008
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    Nope, all different!



  14. #14
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    Aug. 2, 2005
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    Oxford, USA
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    I would be suspicious of your mare's ability to provide a top notch immune system. Unless she has a stellar performance record, in this economy, I would be very leery of bringing another horse in to this world.
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  15. #15
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    Nov. 28, 2003
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    MO
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    Other than the health issues, why did she not make it as a riding horse? That would affect my decision, too.
    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227



  16. #16
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    Jul. 18, 2008
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    She has a hind ankle injury that limits her performance under saddle. She is a great walk/trot horse now, but I'm not a walk/trot rider! This limits her as a potential sale horse, as most people looking for a w/t horse want a trail safe horse as well. She's got a bit of spook in her, nothing an intermediate rider can't handle, but would be unsettling for a beginner.

    Thanks for everyones input...



  17. #17
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by not again View Post
    I would be suspicious of your mare's ability to provide a top notch immune system. Unless she has a stellar performance record, in this economy, I would be very leery of bringing another horse in to this world.
    Ability to pass on immunity was what I was thinking too. But what about the plasma suggestion? Would that not mitigate the mare's deficiency?



  18. #18

    Default

    My first thought on reading this thread was the mare's immune system also is a little compromised -- she got pnemonia in a neglect situation. I am not saying that's not unusual, but sounds like her system might be easily stressed as well.

    I am deep in my own lame broodmare situation right now, but it seems there are so many other really good mares to breed atm why take the chance on this one?

    If you must, I concur that the plasma just off the bat is probably a good idea, just to boost in case.



  19. #19
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    Feb. 9, 2005
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    To answer the basic question, personally, I wouldn't do it. I'm also thinking there is an immune system issue she has/is passing. Or the worst luck ever...

    Either way I wouldn't be up for it, but I'm not you!
    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  20. #20
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Quote Originally Posted by GracefulHano View Post
    EM - she's been well cared for in my opinion. UTD on shots, deworming, foaled out with no problems. There was very little time that she was not in my care during her pregnancies.
    With the exception of the foal that passed away at 2 weeks of age, all navels have been great. I had questioned the 2008 colts navel, but the vet said not to worry its a hernia. He also refused to come out the night that foal had a fever, and after my insistance, he came out and told me to relax and get some sleep, the foal was fine. The next morning he could not stand, and hadn't nursed all night.
    Hmmm... So if you can't really find an outside culprit, I wouldn't breed her myself.

    Had there been some environmental factors, it would have been different, but it seems like the problem might just be "her".

    I wonder if the problems are related to her genes or to her uterine environment, thus if ET would be a solution if you absolutely want to breed HER...

    But, of course, it's a free country and all that jazz. But, I have had sufficient bad luck with mares that are otherwise models of perfect health and foalings, so I wouldn't tempt fate starting with a mare with such a sad history...



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