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  1. #1
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    Feb. 20, 2011
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    Default Cross-post, Naughty cross tie behavior, but only for me?

    Recently Luna has started annoyingly dancing and pawing in cross ties, but only when I am grooming/tacking her up. It doesn't matter if she's alone or not, she does it at any time of day/evening, whether she's cycling or not. I try to correct the habits...usually I can just point my finger at her and say "ahhh ahhhhh" and that stops it but the naughtiness has increased over time.

    She does not do this for her exercise rider or my trainer, just me. Any thoughts?
    Friend of bar.ka



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
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    2,899

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    Do you ever feed her treats? She may be "begging" for a treat, while she knows the trainer and other rider won't give her one.



  3. #3
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    Jan. 23, 2006
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    OP, I have no advice, as my horse does this to me, too.

    He gives me shit literally *all*the*time*, but doesn't do it to anyone else (probably because he knows they won't take it).

    He is a perfect gentleman for the farrier, the vet, my trainers and my riding friends. But the second I put him on cross-ties he starts the pawing, prancing, head-nodding crap.

    It used to be that as soon as he would see me he would start up, and I would have to leave the area when the farrier or vet was working with him.

    I'm such a bad parent.

    I've become consistent with disciplining him when he starts his nonsense, and while that has made him calm down substantially; he will still try his antics anyway. He just doesn't get away with doing it as long as he used to
    Quote Originally Posted by Martha Drum View Post
    ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.



  4. #4
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    Feb. 20, 2011
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    I do give her treats but a specified times, one when I get her out of pasture and one when she is returned to pasture. It doesn't seem like typical "begging" just swinging of her hind end back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, a little pawing and head bobbing.
    Maybe she's just really excited? It's SO annoying. Exercise rider and trainer feed cookies, I'm not sure how often but I told them they could. Maybe I should just take away cookies for a while?

    I feel bad about reprimanding her, she's a very reactive mare and makes a huge deal if I give her a stern slap on the shoulder. How should I reprimand her? She's otherwise very polite on the ground and for vet and farrier.
    Friend of bar.ka



  5. #5
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    May. 15, 2011
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    Default

    I have the same problem



  6. #6
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    Jan. 13, 2000
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    have you tried every single time she moves, putting her back in place and saying stand? calmly w/o any fuss, no other reactions. she moves one hoof, you move that hoof back to the place you want it, say stand and go back to your business. she moves another hoof, you repeat -- move her forward or back a step until she's back in the place YOU want her to be in. it might take a while but eventually she should get it.

    I would say no to the cookies. Or at least from personal experience, my 3 year old loses his mind with excitement if hand treats come into the picture (I do not go there), he really really loves food.



  7. #7
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    Jun. 7, 2008
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    now in KCMO, and plan to stay there
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    I would just ignore the behavior. If she does not get any reinforcement of any kind, it may extinguish on its own. If she is not endangering you or herself, I also fail to see it as a 'problem'. We ask horses to do so much that is not what they necessarily would choose to do on their own, it seems only fair to me to allow them some self-expression. After all, they are alive and sentient, not robots.
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



  8. #8
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    Jun. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlbredfan View Post
    I would just ignore the behavior. If she does not get any reinforcement of any kind, it may extinguish on its own. If she is not endangering you or herself, I also fail to see it as a 'problem'. We ask horses to do so much that is not what they necessarily would choose to do on their own, it seems only fair to me to allow them some self-expression. After all, they are alive and sentient, not robots.
    I am going to respectfully disagree. I think it strongly depends on the individual. My mare is a reactive, alpha mare who is SMART. When I first got her she would paw, dance around, etc. I read books and talked to professionals and the majority told me to ignore the behavior. So I dealt with it for several years.
    One day I was talking with a very respected cowboy-type trainer and mid conversation he walked over to my pawing mare and gave her one hard smack on the stomach and growled "knock it off." Her head flew up, she snorted, had a mini heartattack and as I geared up to ask this man what the heck he thought he was doing smacking my horse, she stopped dancing and stood totally still.
    Once every few months I will have to give a reminder pop but now she stands quietly, and calmly in the crossties and safely groundties as well. She needed boundaries and once I told her what I expected she actually calmed down and started to enjoy our grooming sessions.
    This cross-tie dancer demonstrated her trust in me twice over the past few months:
    1. She stood completely still when I body-clipped her as a storm rolled in and wind gusts hit 25 mph causing the roof to make awful noises.
    2. My clueless boyfriend can crosstie her, blanket her and spend as much time as needed to awkwardly put on her sleazy, fly sheet, and fly mask.

    A few years ago I would have told you that this mare would have gone crazy in either one of these situations but she understands that crossties are a place to be quiet. I really believe alpha mares need boundaries and once they understand those boundaries they will never cease to amaze you by going above and beyond what you expect. Just my opinion.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 20, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlbredfan View Post
    I would just ignore the behavior. If she does not get any reinforcement of any kind, it may extinguish on its own. If she is not endangering you or herself, I also fail to see it as a 'problem'. We ask horses to do so much that is not what they necessarily would choose to do on their own, it seems only fair to me to allow them some self-expression. After all, they are alive and sentient, not robots.
    I would ignore it if it didn't happen while I was grooming her or tacking her up but because of the behavior it takes me double the amount ofntime to get her ready and I don't know about you but I don't like a horse's hind end swinging away/to me when I'm trying to put her saddle on or curry her.
    Thank you everyone for your responses, I'm going to try a few methods that you have used!
    Friend of bar.ka



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    Default

    ignore it as shes got your no, and can play up on you it seems

    so change your tactics dont let he antispate you all the time ie sees you as a walk over

    buy a small boys water pistol and shoot her, when she misbehaves water doesnt hurt and its a short sharp shock treatment
    ooh and give up the tip bits that goes for you the trianer and the bo
    as treats just rewards a bad behaviour and make it ten times worse
    it also encourages kicking/ fighting around gates, lunging over stable doors pawing, and being a muppet in general, and biting

    rewards are grooming patting, scratching, using tones of voice and feet picking all are bonding and give clear signals of direction

    if you want to give her a treat then do it in her dinner bowl



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshach View Post
    have you tried every single time she moves, putting her back in place and saying stand? calmly w/o any fuss, no other reactions. she moves one hoof, you move that hoof back to the place you want it, say stand and go back to your business. she moves another hoof, you repeat -- move her forward or back a step until she's back in the place YOU want her to be in. it might take a while but eventually she should get it.

    I would say no to the cookies. Or at least from personal experience, my 3 year old loses his mind with excitement if hand treats come into the picture (I do not go there), he really really loves food.
    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    I am going to respectfully disagree. I think it strongly depends on the individual. My mare is a reactive, alpha mare who is SMART. When I first got her she would paw, dance around, etc. I read books and talked to professionals and the majority told me to ignore the behavior. So I dealt with it for several years.
    One day I was talking with a very respected cowboy-type trainer and mid conversation he walked over to my pawing mare and gave her one hard smack on the stomach and growled "knock it off." Her head flew up, she snorted, had a mini heartattack and as I geared up to ask this man what the heck he thought he was doing smacking my horse, she stopped dancing and stood totally still.
    Once every few months I will have to give a reminder pop but now she stands quietly, and calmly in the crossties and safely groundties as well. She needed boundaries and once I told her what I expected she actually calmed down and started to enjoy our grooming sessions.
    This and this.



  12. #12
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    Feb. 20, 2011
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    Default

    No treats? No problems. As soon as someone else hinted at treats, that's when the naughty stuff happened. One smack in the stomach and she knocked it off.
    Why couldn't I figure this out before, who knows but thanks all!
    Friend of bar.ka



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