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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2005
    Posts
    845

    Default Does Anyone have a Dog like This?

    I have a wonderful little mini poodle. He is honestly the sweetest dog I have ever been around. He loves everyone: human, canine, feline, etc.

    However, he seems to be lacking a few basic "skills."

    I'm not entirely convinced he didn't come from, basically, a glorified puppy mill. I admit, I didn't really do my homework on the breeder, and when I went to meet the pup, I wasn't going to leave him. I got him when he was about 5 months old. He was already neutered and was supposed to be crate and house-trained.

    Crate-training is lost on him. He can go out right before, and I could be gone 2 hours and he will have urinated or defecated on himself. I know about crate sizing, etc. He's in an adequately-sized crate. Sometimes he is totally fine. Others, I come home and he is a filthy mess. There's really no rhyme nor reason to it. He's not nervous or afraid at all. I can tell him "crate" and he goes right in. He's not suffering from separation anxiety or anything. I've adjusted his feeding/water schedule to try to circumvent problems. He just doesn't have any innate desire not to soil his "bed."

    He's not even remotely housetrained. As long as I keep an eye on him and take him out every hour or so, he is fine but if he has to go, he just goes. I've caught him, said NO and taken him out, repeatedly, it just doesn't seem to register.

    Also..he's the only dog/puppy I've been around that "sit" command does not register with. I've used the treat over the head to get him to drop to his haunches (just jumps around) and the press-on his-rump till he sits routine, which does the same. I show him that I have a treat thinking he'll sit eventually, and he just loses interest.

    I admit I am not an "expert" dog owner. But, he is pushing nine months old and I would have hoped to be making more progress by now.

    I love him to death and he is sweet, playful, and absolutely wonderful in every other way. Does anyone have any other ideas?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    41,559

    Default

    How about finding a local performance dog club and going to some of their beginner classes?
    There you can see if your dog can be trained a bit better and get an evaluation and help with the household manner issues.

    Those classes are generally a set of six to ten classes, one class a week and you could at least go see what they tell you about your puppy.

    Toy poodles are known for being a bit harder to housebreak and boy dogs even more.
    We had several and all were fine, but one female did take long time to be trustworthy.
    We did never have a crate soiling dog, thankfully, but then, we never left one in the crate long enough if they may need to go.

    For dogs that may soil in the crate, one solution is to get an x-pen and put the crate, food and water on one end and newspapers in the other end and some dogs do eventually learn to keep their crate and water/food area clean and go on the papers, if you leave a soiled piece there when you put new papers down.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    5,130

    Default

    Soiling in the crate often means that somewhere his natural inhibition against soiling his bed was broken. You may be right about his history because puppy mills use grills and pull out trays. Those kinds of dogs are notoriously hard to potty train. Are you somewhere you can have a dog door? How about litter box training him? He's small enough right?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
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    Full time in Delhi, NY!
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    6,398

    Default

    He's definitely come from some place where he was crated for too long and has lost his inhibition against self-soiling. In my experience, that takes a looooong time to get over or even improve. I did have the dirtest dog ever FINALLY out grow it after she moved from being crated indoors to living full time in an out door run. Now that she's moved up to NY with me, she's back to being crated at night and for short periods throughout the day while we're a home. She no longer messes in her crate except for the occasional pee which her normal crate pad takes care of.

    I'd would certainly try an exercise pen rather than a crate when you're going to be gone. I'd use a belly band on him when he was loose in the house. I'd also make real sure to get him on a schedule so that you'll know when he's going to need a potty break. Good luck!
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2005
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    3,626

    Default

    I work nights and often have to stay over a bit if someone is late or sick. My family sleeps very soundly so they do not always here the puppy when she wakes up. Several times she had an accident in her crate because of this. What I did was buy a puppy playpen and zip tied a baby gate to the top(she figured out very quickly how to climb out). I put her bed in one end and put a wee-wee pad at the other end. Most nights(for the last month or so) she stays clean until I get home and then I put her out. If for some reason she has to go before I get home, she is not pottying in her bed and doesn't get dirty. She has gotten good about going to the door, but I have to watch as she doesn't make any noise. I got some Poochy bells which hang on the door knob. I am trying to train her to ring the bells to go out. (still a work in progress)
    I agree with others that probably puppy mill situation where they just potty in their pens and a tray is pulled out for cleaning.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2005
    Posts
    845

    Default

    Thanks for the tips, everyone. I can definitely try an exercise pen. He's in his "destroy everything" puppy phase so things like newspaper, etc are just shredded to bits..I can try a puppy pad though. Maybe if I can get him broke to using that, I can bypass the crate problems.

    He's a mini poodle, not a toy poodle..so he's about 12 lbs now, I'd guess he'll top out at about 15lbs.

    Other than that inconvenience, he really is the most wonderful little dog. Anytime I take him anywhere, people comment that they can't believe he is a puppy bc he is so well-behaved. Of course..they don't see him at home where he tears around mach-three EVERYWHERE. I had had him for three weeks when he make a daring 1.5-foot leap off of his crate (idk why he felt the need to be up there in the first place) and broke his radious and ulna. A surgery and steel plate later, my $150 dog became a $2500 dog. He has his final X-ray today. Thank goodness.. bc "keeping him calm" had not gone well. Luckily, his bone healing has



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    12,807

    Default

    My guess is that he has never really been house broken. Take him back to housetraining 101. Tether him to you when he is out of the crate so you can supervise him. Take him out every few hours, and after eating, waking up, playing. Use a cue word like "Go potty". If he doesn't go, bring him in, keep in crate or tethered to you, and try again in 15 min. Reward with high value treats (like tiny pieces of cut up hot dog) and LOTS of praise when he goes potty. Ignore accidents (which if you are supervising him 100% of the time he is out of the crate, he shouldn't be having).

    Put some of his poop in the spot you want him to use for pottying. It'll attract him to that spot.

    Walk him on a leash twice a day for about 40 min each time (or whatever he can do with his recovering injury), and when you see him start to look like he's going to pee/poop give the cue, and reward with treat/praise when he does.

    Set an alarm for at night, and take him out before bed, and again in the middle of the night, then first thing in the am. He physically should be able to hold it longer, but in order to train him effectively, you need to teach him that he ONLY goes outside. And to do that, you'll need to take him out often at first.

    The key to housebreaking is make it so they CAN'T have accidents inside because they are supervised, and taken out frequently. Clean accidents with an enzyme cleaner to prevent them from wanting to return there and "mark".



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2005
    Posts
    845

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    My guess is that he has never really been house broken. Take him back to housetraining 101. Tether him to you when he is out of the crate so you can supervise him. Take him out every few hours, and after eating, waking up, playing. Use a cue word like "Go potty". If he doesn't go, bring him in, keep in crate or tethered to you, and try again in 15 min. Reward with high value treats (like tiny pieces of cut up hot dog) and LOTS of praise when he goes potty. Ignore accidents (which if you are supervising him 100% of the time he is out of the crate, he shouldn't be having).

    Put some of his poop in the spot you want him to use for pottying. It'll attract him to that spot.

    Walk him on a leash twice a day for about 40 min each time (or whatever he can do with his recovering injury), and when you see him start to look like he's going to pee/poop give the cue, and reward with treat/praise when he does.

    Set an alarm for at night, and take him out before bed, and again in the middle of the night, then first thing in the am. He physically should be able to hold it longer, but in order to train him effectively, you need to teach him that he ONLY goes outside. And to do that, you'll need to take him out often at first.

    The key to housebreaking is make it so they CAN'T have accidents inside because they are supervised, and taken out frequently. Clean accidents with an enzyme cleaner to prevent them from wanting to return there and "mark".
    Good advice. However, a few issues with this:
    -No point in keeping him in his crate when he isn't supervised, as he has no qualms about going potty in there.
    -He sleeps in my bed at night and makes it abundantly clear if he needs to get up and go potty. So no need to set an alarm, he starts pacing the bed and whining at me. Which I guess is odd since he knows not to go in MY bed, but doesn't extend the same courtesy to his own



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    12,807

    Default

    The reason to keep him in the crate when he isn't supervised is to limit accidents to in there, as opposed to anywhere else. If he thinks the world is his toilet, you'll never housetrain him. But ideally, he'll be walked enough that he won't need to go in there either. But you need to clean the crate thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner to get the smell out so he won't think it IS his toilet because of the smell.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
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    Center of the Universe
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    Default

    I wouldn't crate a dog who routinely soiled one- every time he soils his living space that's just one more reinforcement of the bad habit. Agree with those he say he's probably a puppy mill product and probably has never actually been in a house before yours.
    If you must confine, use a pen or a puppy-proofed room with a piddle pad at one end to at least encourage/assist trying to not soil the living space.
    The tethering method is good, and take him out OFTEN at first- with young pups I've gone out once an hour every hour (set a timer) then set an alarm for a middle of the night trip. Every time they go outside you throw a happy party. You can usually rapidly extend time between trips out as they get it.
    as to training- have you tried hand signals instead of words? sometimes it takes some dogs awhile to figure out that those noises actually mean something, but most catch on real quick to handsignals.
    You can try clicker-training him too- you notice he's sitting on his own, click and toss him a reward. No frustration on his part. Most dogs rapidly figure out that "sitting" is good, and then you can try saying "sit" or give your hand signal while he's in the act of sitting and then toss him a treat.



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