The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default Pre Green hunter rules

    I had a quick question!

    Was at a show recently and a horse I know from my zone was showing in the Pre Greens but this horse showed in the 3'6" equitation last fall? I know it wasn't reinstated because it's been doing the Big Eq locally since December. Is that allowed???

    It also did some 3'6" classes at the recent show where it did the pre greens.

    Just curious if I'm missing something in the rules.

    TIA!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,807

    Default

    Cannot find a thing about Pre Greens in the 2011 USEF rules so it must be a zone specific thing and they MIGHT exclude Eq classes. Or this was not a rated show and they go by a different set of rules????

    No idea, really. But, especially if they do well, there would be no way they have evaded protest at a USEF AA rated level if it is illegal to openly cross enter a 3'6" Eq and a 3' Pre Green in that specific zone. Non rated with no steward, who knows.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    It's Zones 1 and 2. Where would one find Zone specs anyway? I've tried to find them on the USEF website for another question but couldn't find them?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbell View Post
    It's Zones 1 and 2. Where would one find Zone specs anyway? I've tried to find them on the USEF website for another question but couldn't find them?
    I THINK they are on the USHJA site.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,807

    Default

    Ya know, you'd think they'd be there but I sure cannot find anything except proposed rule changes and new rules. Nothing for either Pre Greens or zones.

    If anybody knows where the zone rules regarding cross entry might be, please link.

    I did find HU 107 c on the USEF site but all it says is first year of showing at 3' BUT the zones can submit modifications and it does not deal with a cross entry into the Eq. All rather vague, really.
    Last edited by findeight; May. 13, 2011 at 11:36 AM.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2001
    Location
    over yonder
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Never figured out how to attache a link so don't know if this works. If not, on the USHJA website, click on zones on the left hand side, then pick your zone and click specifications.


    http://www.ushja.org/content/committees/zones.aspx
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    I was able to find the information on the USHJA site, so thanks so much for sending me in that direction!

    The rule for Zones 1 and 2 are that you cannot jump 3'6" regardless of whether Eq or Hunter and remain a pre green. That was what I thought but wasn't sure with all the recent rule changes....



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

    Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
    A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
    fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

    There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

    ZONE 1
    Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
    under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
    reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

    There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

    Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
    A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
    fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

    There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

    ZONE 1
    Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
    under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
    reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

    There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".
    Actually if you look at the attached chart (from the USHJA site,) it is clear that Zone 1 also prohibits participation in the pre greens once the horse has shown at 3'6" - in any division.

    http://www.ushja.org/content/committ...rZoneSpecs.pdf
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2005
    Location
    Chicago. Again.
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

    Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
    A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
    fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

    There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

    ZONE 1
    Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
    under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
    reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

    There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".
    Well, considering "green status is considered to be broken once it (horse) competes over fences 3’6” or higher" per USEF First Year rules, this is just a really confusing way to say the exact same thing.

    But since I'm back in the rule book again, I'll post my latest confusion. Trying to figure out how to catergorize a horse I would have previously termed as "Eligible Regular Working Hunter" . . . but there is no more Regulars? Right? Are they keeping Regular Conformations? What do you call a horse that has finished its second year green? Eligible High Performance Hunter?

    The rule book talks about High Performance under the heading Regular Working Hunter . . . so if anyone has any insight as to how the organizational thought process works over their please clue me in. Just trying to iron out what the new lingo will be.

    Here's that plus their admittance they have no idea what's going on in the Pregreens.

    Quote Originally Posted by usef
    HU106 Regular Hunter – Definition and Classifications.
    1. A High Performance or Performance Working Hunter is a horse of any age and is not restricted by previous showing.

    2. The Green High Performance and Performance Hunter Sections may be divided into the following classifications: EC 4/18/11 Effective immediately
    a. Small—not exceeding 15.2 and 1/2 hands.
    b. Thoroughbred—registered in any stud book recognized by the Jockey Club.
    c. Non-thoroughbred—not registered as in (b).
    d. Three-year-olds
    e. Four-year-olds and over

    3. Pre-Green - Unless USHJA Zone Committees submit their specifications by August 1st, the following specifications will apply for the Pre-Green Hunter Divisions:
    a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first year of showing over 3’ fences at Regular Competitions or Eventing Competitions of the Federation or Equine Canada or any national or international competition in any classes that require horses to jump 3’ or higher.
    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/16-HU.pdf

    pg 8
    Last edited by dags; May. 15, 2011 at 12:20 PM. Reason: clean up quote
    ExchangeHunterJumper.com
    Quality hunter, jumper, pony & equitation sale horses available worldwide, follow us on Facebook, Twitter or YouTube.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post

    Here's that plus their admittance they have no idea what's going on in the Pregreens.



    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/16-HU.pdf

    pg 8
    Yeah BUT they aren't supposed to HAVE any idea about PreGreens. It's a ZONE division, rules set by USHJA.

    And the regs are different for Z2 and Z1. There is no age exemption in Z2, there is no mention of reinstatement in Z1.
    But Z1 does need to clean up it's rule, There are no more Regular Working Hunters



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Can we bring this thread back?

    Zone 2

    Can a horse that has shown twice in a 3'6 division this year (2013) be reinstated so that they can step back to the 2nd year PreGreens (3'3)? I'm really having a hard time finding this information.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,492

    Default

    A horse’s or pony’s green status may be reinstated for a future competition year if it was not shown at the regulation height at more than four (4) competitions prior to September 1st and if it was not shown at that height after September 1st in the same year.

    http://www.usef.org/documents/hunter...pplication.pdf
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by osgoka01 View Post
    Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?
    Oh, sorry - attached the wrong link. Yes, assuming the horse is otherwise eligible, it is possible to go back to the PG ring:

    a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first or second year of showing over 3’or 3’3” fences that has never competed over fences of 3’6” (1.07m) or
    higher. A horse that receives a 1st Year Green Reinstatement may return to Pre-Green if it is otherwise eligible.
    (emphasis added.)

    Here is the correct link, sorry for the confusion: http://www.usef.org/documents/hunter...pplication.pdf
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Many thanks!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2012
    Location
    AIKEN SC
    Posts
    243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by osgoka01 View Post
    Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?
    Since this thread started several years ago there have been changes in PreGreen.
    It is no longer governed by Zone rules. Instead the definition is at the USEF level.

    "3. Pre-Green - Unless USHJA Zone Committees submit their specifications by
    August 1st to the Federation, the following specifications will apply:
    a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first or second year of showing
    over 3’ or 3’3” fences that has never competed over fences of 3’6” (1.07m) or
    higher. A horse that receives a 1st Year Green Reinstatement may return to
    Pre-Green if it is otherwise eligible"

    I don't think ANY zones still include PreGreen specs in their rules.

    Rules for Pre Green reinstatement.

    e. A horse’s pre-green status may be reinstated for a future competition year if it
    was not shown at the 3’ height or 3’3” height at more than four (4) competitions
    prior to September 1st and if it was not shown at that height after September 1st
    in the same year.
    f. The Federation recorded owner must submit the pre-green reinstatement
    application, which must reach the Federation office on or before November 30th
    of the year of withdrawal. The request must be made during the year in which
    pre-green status was broken.
    g. A processing fee, a list of competitions with dates where the horse competed
    at its regulation height or higher, the horse’s name and Federation recording
    number must be included on the reinstatement application.

    h. At the time of request, the horse must stop competing over fences its respective height or higher for the remainder of that competition year.
    i. If the horse is not actively recorded at the time of request, it must be recorded/
    renewed at that time. Failure to do so will result in the horse losing its pre-green
    status. The owner will receive notification indicating the horses’ pre-green
    eligibility.
    j. A pre-green reinstatement will only be granted one time.
    k. In the event an owner of a horse is not satisfied with the decision, they may
    submit a written appeal to be heard by the Federation Hearing Committee with
    the required appeal fee. An appeal does not guaranguarantee the reinstatement will be granted."

    See HU105 for additional conditions for Green Hunter reinstatement.

    Depends when the horse broke Green or PreGreen status. If it was last year and you did not apply by November then you have a problem.
    Fan of Sea Accounts



Similar Threads

  1. ? about hunter derby rules
    By Alterrain in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun. 9, 2010, 07:34 AM
  2. Hunter Rules Gurus: Help Please!!
    By kates93 in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Jun. 6, 2010, 08:54 PM
  3. Help w/USEF green hunter rules....
    By skyy in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May. 26, 2010, 01:27 PM
  4. VHSA rated vs. Assoc/green/pony hunter rules question
    By BelladonnaLily in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Nov. 19, 2009, 01:07 PM
  5. USEF Hunter Breeding Rules Questions
    By Snowbird in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 138
    Last Post: Jan. 27, 2008, 05:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness