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  1. #21
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    Apr. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by leilatigress View Post
    If the horse decides to use it as evasion a roll back or 10 will correct that in a hurry. Point of a western horse is to get them to work off the back end while still staying balanced.
    Ahh yep makes sense now! Pony tried backing last night after I said no to going forward and a roll back did in fact fix it quick. I just did it out of instinct, really, but it did the trick.

    Just read what you added, thanks! Totally makes sense what you said about rider needing to be calm and cool. I am not bothered by his happy feet but he is used for lessons occasionally and I know the kids get tweaked out by his inability to stand still, which is only feeding the problem.... He's the kind of horse that I'm pretty sure was born broke so I feel like no one ever put a lot of actual training on him. He kind of just does what he was told and hasn't had a lot of formal education.

    Wish I had another month or two with him to fill in some holes... He's a cute little stinker.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  2. #22
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    Aug. 2, 2000
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    Chesterland, OH USA
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    Just be careful what you wish for.
    My Saddlebred came with a stop-on-a-dime whoa.
    Now I ride Dressage and I get dinged for "abrupt" halts.



  3. #23
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    Jan. 2, 2006
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    Dallas, NC
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    I have heard that a horse needs to do something 1000 times for it to learn it well, sometimes I believe that is true!

    If a horse doesn't have a good whoa at first (makes 2 or 3 steps before stopping or you say WHOA a few times) each time you bring them to a stop, have them step back 2 or 3 steps. Then work on taking 1 or 2 steps back, then just to stop.

    I agree with people saying WHOA when they really mean EASY. Anyone who rides one of my horses, I tell them before they get on that if you say WHOA when you meant EASY, you bring the horse to a complete stop anyway and wait for at least 3 beats before letting them move back off, and then only when YOU ask them to move off, not them making the choice to move off.

    We'll all stop and wait too.
    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.



  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post

    My point is I want to know how to teach it without the threat of bodily harm. lol.
    honestly? we are taught that the mouth is GOLD and only touched last, always always last...and then gently unless something dire as happened as an outright refusal of a direct command

    It comes as quite a surprise to 95% of the horse riding population, that well broke good western horses use the seat, legs, weight of something as "light " as the shift of your head, or the press of a seat bone to move their bodies with FIRST before the hand (in the same way one does not "shake" the reins of a team to make them go forward,contrary to western movies galore)

    they don't "need" someone "in" their mouth for that and a broke horse will resent it with less than happy implications for the riders...for them the hand is for precision movements in conjunction with the full body or "collection" as it is for us or discipline for an infraction

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  5. #25
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
    Ahh yep makes sense now! Pony tried backing last night after I said no to going forward and a roll back did in fact fix it quick. I just did it out of instinct, really, but it did the trick.

    Just read what you added, thanks! Totally makes sense what you said about rider needing to be calm and cool. I am not bothered by his happy feet but he is used for lessons occasionally and I know the kids get tweaked out by his inability to stand still, which is only feeding the problem.... He's the kind of horse that I'm pretty sure was born broke so I feel like no one ever put a lot of actual training on him. He kind of just does what he was told and hasn't had a lot of formal education.

    Wish I had another month or two with him to fill in some holes... He's a cute little stinker.
    To a western trained horse, a whoa means back up.
    The whoa is not really a static exercise in itself unless you want it to be.
    You use your legs to control the backup into a stop.
    You may want to try that.

    Most western horses if you just move a tick your legs forward and out, the mere hint of it is enough, they will stop and start backing if you then not quickly close your legs around their middle to keep them there.

    Nothing like sitting there talking to someone and, feeling stiff, forgetfully stretch your legs in the stirrups and your horse obediently starts to back up on you.
    Guess who was not paying attention.
    That is not an evasion, it is what the rider asked for.
    You may want to consider your horse is not evading by backing, but doing what you are asking.

    You can try what works best, once you learn to find whatever buttons may have been installed.



  6. #26
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    Jan. 7, 2009
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    Cincinnati, OH
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    Not sure about teaching a horse to respond to "whoa," but my little TWH will come to a complete halt whenever my cell phone *dings* that I have a new text message.

    Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.



  7. #27
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    Jul. 5, 2007
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    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by JollyBadger View Post
    Not sure about teaching a horse to respond to "whoa," but my little TWH will come to a complete halt whenever my cell phone *dings* that I have a new text message.

    LOL! That's kind of like my house cat who would jump up and run whenever the phone rang. She didn't distinguish between being on my lap (and I would jump up and answer) or napping nearby.
    Why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?
    ~ Dave Barry



  8. #28
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    Sep. 24, 2008
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    Just be careful what you wish for.
    Agree. With my first driving horse, who had a whoa that was incredible, I warned my trainer not to say Whoa unless he meant it.
    He found out JUST what the difference was between "Whoa" and "Easy". Whoa, you ended up with his ears up your nose, if you weren't ready!

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.



  9. #29
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    Oct. 26, 2010
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    Orygun
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    Lots of great advice here. Sorry I didn't read every word but wanted to add... when you utter the whoa word, say it really short and abrupt, like 'hoa!

    When loping, try to time your word with the horses' front hooves ont the ground. His back ones will be coming forward and IF he is paying attention and your timing is right, his rear end will come forward and he'll stick his back legs into the ground and stop. No muss, no fuss. I'm giving an ultra simplified version of it. You'll get to the point of dropping your center of gravity, just touching your reins (if at all), uttering hoa and you're stopped! You just have to be prepared.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  10. #30
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    Jan. 31, 2010
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    Alberta
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    I agree with be careful what you wish for!

    I had a horse come here a couple years ago to have that instant whoa untrained; too many people came off her horse when they said whoa without being ready! His issue was mostly that he jammed on the brakes by bracing his front legs.

    I retrained him so that he slowed off the whoa word, but would stop completely IF the rider was also asking for whoa with her seat. This helped him learn to prepare for the whoa better and halt from the hindquarters.

    I have also trained a horse that I am sure was trained to halt with a running W or similar. This horse would stop suddenly...but definately not relaxed or happy about it. Had to retrain it that whoa was a happy thing that meant scratches and such...kept the whoa, but lost the tension.



  11. #31

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    I have watched alot of people put that whoa on thier horse with horrible bits, harsh hands and lots of whacking!

    I take the other approach. Because I sometimes have smaller kids ride, I require all of my horses to have the WHOA down pat before I even consider them as a packer for the kids. I teach it on the ground first. Free lunging is perfect for this, IMO. I would much rather have the horse listen to my voice and my body instead of a line being snatched across his face.

    Once he gets it on the ground, I transfer it to his back. Sometimes they need a little help when saddled, so when I ask for the whoa I will count the steps he takes before he actually stops and then back him that same amount of steps. Nothing harsh, no snatching or yelling, just backing.

    Pretty soon they figure out that if they stop when I tell them to, no backing is required.

    Thats just how I do it. I am sure there are tons of other ways to do it, but this method has worked for me everytime I use it. Currently working a Fjord with the issue of "I dont wanna!" She's super cute and fun to ride, so I have to laugh at her when she does it, but she is starting to get it.

    Good luck getting that stop! Its a wonderful thing to have!!!

    BB
    Boomer's Hopes & Dreams
    On Facebook
    Tia - The Rescue
    RIP Boomer - May 21, 1989 - November 3, 2010



  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Guess who was not paying attention.
    .
    and then you gotta say "sorry buddy my fault"

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  13. #33
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    May. 8, 2004
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    PA
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    Like BB above, I had a trainer who always taught it on the ground first to the babies. Every baby would "whoa" on the ground on command; a chain over the nose and a cube of sugar were the positive and negative reinforcement.

    When we backed them, the first dozen rides we used a halter over the bridle with a chain over the nose as a just in case. But the whoa was pretty much always there, and reinforced on the ground and during lunging.



  14. #34
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    Apr. 28, 2008
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    What on earth do you whack to get a horse to whoa? I just have a hard time imagining some of these "training methods".



  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordtraktor View Post
    What on earth do you whack to get a horse to whoa? I just have a hard time imagining some of these "training methods".
    I have seen people carry dressage whips for this very reason. When you ask for the whoa and the horse doesnt respond, they yank sharply on his mouth and whack the crap out of the front shoulder. Its basically to force them to back away from all forward movement when asked to whoa.

    I have even seen people carry small pieces of PVC pipe. Ugh! It angers me what some people will do...and get away with.

    BB
    Boomer's Hopes & Dreams
    On Facebook
    Tia - The Rescue
    RIP Boomer - May 21, 1989 - November 3, 2010



  16. #36
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    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    I have one who has the 'body language' who down cold, but doesn't seem to understand the verbal when on the lunge or in the round pen. There are times I wonder if he's actually deaf, except for the way he'll spook at a sudden noise.

    So how do you install the instant Whoa when they're 20 feet away from you on the lunge line? Most of the time he'll stop if I jump in front of him an yell, but he just seems to get into this 'zone' where he's going around oblivious of the person standing in the center of the circle until you literally have to shout at him.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  17. #37
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    and then you gotta say "sorry buddy my fault"

    Tamara
    Oh, yes, always apologize to your horse.
    They have a decidedly strict sense of what is right.



  18. #38
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    Nov. 26, 2003
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    NE FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    Not necessarily with bits or harsh hands.

    I've installed some on a few horses on the ground first while lunging. Whoa means WHOA and don't move until otherwise told. Undersaddle, they just hear whoa and park it.

    I'm curious to see how others have installed their handy dandy brakes.

    Edited to state, whoa means just that: STOP, not slow down, not think about stopping, just WHOA.

    I hate it when people tell their horses to whoa when they really just want them to slow down or change gaits or something. Hard for the word to be concrete in so many different uses.


    That's pretty much how I did it too with my mare. She's a homebred so I started young. Any time I wanted her to stop I said whoa. Leading, walking, ground driving, whoa meant a complete and instant halt.
    It's very helpful in a pleasure horse class

    the biggest thing to not eff it up is ONLY use whoa when you want a complete and immediate halt. Dont use to slow down or steady down a line. Use "easy" or something else, but not whoa.
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin



  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevelyan96 View Post
    I have one who has the 'body language' who down cold, but doesn't seem to understand the verbal when on the lunge or in the round pen. There are times I wonder if he's actually deaf, except for the way he'll spook at a sudden noise.

    So how do you install the instant Whoa when they're 20 feet away from you on the lunge line? Most of the time he'll stop if I jump in front of him an yell, but he just seems to get into this 'zone' where he's going around oblivious of the person standing in the center of the circle until you literally have to shout at him.
    The way I do it is to actually start off free lunging. Tat way, the horse is watching my body from the start and I am not relying on a line to tell my horse what he needs to do. All of my body language is backed up by my voice. If he decides to run through my whoa command, I step forward and in front of the shoulder to make him slow down. I reinforce the word Whoa. If he turns, I immediately turn him back around and ask again for the whoa. Its kinda hard to explain.

    Basically, the way it works for me is when I ask the horse to turn, it tells me I have his attention if he does it. If he doesnt, thats when the GRRRR voice comes out and the whip gets cracked in the air. When I have his attention and he is relaxed I will ask for the WHOA.

    The biggest piece of advice I can give, and you can take it with a grain of salt if youd like, is that you CAN NOT teach a tense, nervous, flighty horse how to WHOA by voice alone. The reason I free lunge is to build a bond between myself and the horse. If he is relaxed and willing to learn, he will take to the WHOA command 10,000 times better than a tense, nervous nilly.

    I use RELAX and EASY alot. My students get mad because I make it look easy. I have just had ALOT of practice. Its not easy, and takes alot of time, patience, practice and probably quite a few moments of "what have I gotten myself into". But its all worth it.

    BB

    PS - Sorry for being long winded.
    Boomer's Hopes & Dreams
    On Facebook
    Tia - The Rescue
    RIP Boomer - May 21, 1989 - November 3, 2010



  20. #40
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    Silvana, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    Agree. With my first driving horse, who had a whoa that was incredible, I warned my trainer not to say Whoa unless he meant it.
    He found out JUST what the difference was between "Whoa" and "Easy". Whoa, you ended up with his ears up your nose, if you weren't ready!

    NJR
    Yep, my little reiner has a great whoa and responds to the word and seat either together or separately. He also doesn't care if it's his rider saying it or someone else! My trainer has had to eliminate the word slow from her instructions to me because D likes to interpret "slow your body down" said to me as "slam on the brakes and drag your ass while taking Laura completely by surprise". I've never come off but we had a few close calls before we got the word eliminated from our trainer's vocabulary.



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