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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2005
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,263

    Default Shoot, shovel, and shut up...

    After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.

    We don't generally have a problem with stray dogs. At our old farm our neighbor's Rottie would occasionally come over and hang out in the pasture just watching the horses- I'd call them just so they'd know where she was- she was never any threat. On this farm we've caught one and called AC to come get it (no ID) and another dog we never saw again after calling it's owner a second time to come get it or next time we'd call AC.

    We don't bother dogs that are just passing through or neighbor's dogs that aren't threatening. We've only had a few "chasers". One pit was killed almost instantly by our newly acquired 6 month old Pyr when he threatened one of the Corgis. DH dumped the body on a remote area of our property and never said a word to anybody.

    DH actually waited and hunted a big black cat that killed several of our ducks for sport- it took him a week or two but he finally killed it.

    The funniest thing happened with another pit bull owned by the same druggie neighbors. DH saw it chase my little mare in the round pen, so he went for the gun. The dog took off while he was in the house so he was walking our property with shotgun in hand looking for it. One of our wierd neighbors must have called the cops. As the officer was pulling down the driveway DH unloaded and laid the gun on the seat of the truck and walked toward the cop. Officer asked DH why he was walking around with a gun. DH replied "Because I can!". DH told the cop where the gun was if he wanted to see it (he didn't) and what was going on. The officer looked over the (uninjured) horse, got a description of the dog and said he'd shoot it himself if he saw it (we don't believe that but whatever...) and went on his merry way. We never saw the dog again so who knows what happened to it. It's nice to live in an area where the police understand that it's legal to shoot dogs threatening livestock.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2009
    Posts
    8,156

    Default THE "S" DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SHOOT = JUST DISAPPEARS = "S" = SHIP-OUT ~

    THE TERM "SSS" = I DO NOT BELIEVE THE FIRST "S" HAS TO BE SHOOT..

    HOW MANY CAN SHOOT ACCURATELY ?

    HOW MANY HAVE GUNS ?

    THINK IN TERMS OF DOGS DISAPPEARING .. OUT OF THE AREA

    "S" CAN STAND FOR "SHIP-OUT"

    MANY OPTIONS HERE ~ IMHO

    JUST GET DOGS OUT OF THE AREA ...
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2008
    Posts
    6,870

    Default

    When I was a kid we had some neighbors about half a mile away that let a pack of shelties/shepherd mutt crosses run loose. They dug into our chicken pen (6' high, with 6" of wire buried) and killed several of our flock. A few weeks later they were back (once dogs get a taste for chickens they are hard to dissuade) they were SSSed in the act.

    It was pretty clear what happened to them, though, since the first time I suppose they'd come home with feathers and blood on them. The neighbors called the cops on us, etc. Of course we had a pen full of chicken feathers and blood to show the cops, as well as the hole they dug into the pen, so there was never an issue. Neighbors hated us until we moved and caused all sorts of hassle, though, for doing away with their darling pets. They seemed to think the whole endeavor was our fault for having (well-penned!) chickens and tempting those horrid dogs.

    Ruined the chickens, they went from being friendly and good pets to being dangerous/floggers.

    Sometimes you do need to shoot them if you can, particularly if they are in the process of attacking the livestock. I would not go into a pen with a killing dog and try to separate them without a gun or a shovel, likely to get bit yourself, they do work up quite a frenzy. And if you just wait, you are going to lose more chickens. Of course if you aren't sure you will hit the dog and not your livestock you shouldn't shoot, with a chicken I would take the risk, with a horse no.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,360

    Default

    After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.
    Well, since the last of the three S words is "shut up"...not sure how many responses you'll get.

    "S" CAN STAND FOR "SHIP-OUT"
    Yes it can. (although in that case it would be SS because the Shovel wouldn't be needed anymore, LOL)

    Never a bad idea if it is an option. Live trapping and having it picked up or bringing it to a pound can be a viable working solution *if* the animal is able to be live trapped.

    Sometimes though that's not viable if the animal is in the process of chasing/harassing/mauling livestock.

    My personal working solutions are:
    Deter or catch dog, talk to dog owners nicely, make friends if possible but also let them know as kindly as possible that in this state there is a law allowing me to protect my livestock with deadly force if necessary. (and that I really prefer to not use that option)

    If it happens a second time, catch or paintball dog, call animal control to file report.

    Third time...depending on canine and owners...the options are: SSS, S and notify authorities, trap and give to breed rescue with full disclosure of livestock bothering issues, wish I could S the owners.

    I would only SSS if absolutely necessary. OTOH I would never allow my animals to be in extreme danger of injury or worse. And if it's a first time offense and there's nothing else I can do at the time due to the severity of an attack...SSS is the only option IMO.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    15,601

    Default

    Yes, Kentucky is very understanding when it comes to dogs and livestock. A friend of mine owns an alpaca farm. He has 8 Pyrs. Last year three dogs (GSD and Rotties) climbed his fence after the alpacas. The Pyrs tore them apart. One Pyr was injured, but not seriously. The idiot owner of the dead dogs called the sheriff. Sheriff came out and told the dog owner he was lucky my friend didn't want to prosecute him and throw him in jail and told my friend, next time just shoot on sight as they're coming over the fence.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2003
    Posts
    9,613

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zu Zu View Post
    HOW MANY CAN SHOOT ACCURATELY ?

    HOW MANY HAVE GUNS ?
    Where I live, out in the country, the majority of people.

    And no, we've never had to SSS. And yes, I agree the dog can be captured by animal control and/or relocated.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Posts
    5,525

    Default

    Several years ago we had a couple of mini's as boarders and they were in a separate pen from the horses, We had low electric braid, but a couple of pit-bull mix strays slipped under the fence anyway. One waljed on the edge of the pen and the other was stalking the yearling mini when I ran out there screaming at them. Had I known how to shoot, I would have. Fortunately they ran off just from the sight of the sacry, crazy lady but I was really worried the next few days. My husband is an excellent shot and would have shot them if he had been home but the timing was so bad there wouldn't have been time to even go get a gun at that moment. He drove around looking for those dogs but never did find them and fortunately, we never saw them again. I love dogs and it would have killed me to do that - but still.

    Currently there is a neigbors un-nuetered cat that keeps whooping our 11 year old nuetered males butt and we're tired of it. He can't even go out anymore without that cat stalking him and he doesn't wander - justs stays in the barn and hunsts mice and guards the banty's. If my husband gets his way, he'll dipose of that nasty cat...and I hate to say that I hope he does. I'm a cat lover but that cat isn't happy or healthy so it will be a mercy killing.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2010
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shakeytails View Post
    After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.

    Count me as one. Had a neighbor who had two dogs, partbreds, not clear just what ancestry. I had horses and llamas and Akitas but my dogs were kenneled. Dogs came over and tried to get one of the llamas....lots of bite marks in hind legs. Didn't catch but a glimpse of them so no time to shoot. Did know who owned them though and went to talk with him. Promised to keep them up but....well. Had the injured llama in the barn and about dusk several days later I hear a commotion in the barn...my dogs raising hell, other dogs growling and the llama screaming. Grabbed the gun and ran to the barn....dogs ran like the devil was on them but I did get one of them shot and killed. Took the body (found it was a nursing bitch) over to the owner. Told him I was sorry to have had to do that but that my llama was now injured so badly I was going back home to shoot him and asked him when I could expect his check for my injured/dead livestock and gave him the value of the animal. Got a check the next day and dog #2 never showed up again....nor did pups.

    BTW...for those recommending bait and trap and remove....in many areas baiting is not legal as the argument is that the dog was enticed onto your property and would not have come on without your bait. Living livestock is not considered "bait" so the dog coming on to do damage to them is in a different situation. Gotta catch 'em in the act and shoot or photo and call AC.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,229

    Default

    I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies".
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    38,539

    Default

    We had a neighbor that lived in a nearby town and had a GSD and lab mix.
    Those dogs got in trouble in town, so he broght them to the farm and left them there running loose.

    They came the several miles to our pens and bothered the cattle when they came in to drink.
    We caught them at it and shoot at them to scare them and they ran off and seemed to stay off.

    A few days later we were weaning calves in the pens and the dogs came back, started running the penned calves around, that hit the fence and went thru it, hit two more fences, the dogs still after them.

    We called the neighbor and told him we would shoot the dogs and he said "go ahead".
    Then we really got mad and told him we were not there to take care of his problem dogs, it was up to him to pen them or shoot them.
    If we had to shoot them, we would also file a report and let the court handle him.

    Luckily, the times we had any problems, we didn't have to SS and definitely would not have shut up, but in some circumstances, that is what you have to do.

    We never again saw the dogs.
    We were glad when he moved on.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,367

    Default

    Not for dogs yet, but a cat.... stray, wild big tom that attacked one of my barn cats. 11pm at night at the kitty ER and $450 worth of treatment to save her. Hubby went on the hunt the next day. 1 shot right between the eyes. Tom is under the manure pile.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 15, 2010
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies".
    I second this big time! I had a horse recovering from an injury in a small paddock chased by a pack of "friendly" neighborhood dogs. No need to SSS them, horsey had good enough aim to send them running. Owners didn't believe us when we informed them and I was left with a horse so distrustful of dogs that I could no longer hunt him.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 1999
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    5,222

    Default


    Oh yes, I truly believe in the SSS.
    And I would believe the cop, OP. They've seen too many innocent animals die gruesome deaths from dog attacks - and children too. They have no problems taking aim at them.
    The hubby does the first S - he's a great shot.
    Honestly, if you live in the country, you pretty much have to believe in SSS.
    Even duct tape can't fix stupid



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
    Posts
    8,818

    Default

    That last S does stand for Shut up. I'll retell a good story though.

    A buddy of mine had a sweet old furry mutt dog that lived outdoors on his porch. A lazy kid's pet. Well, he got a call from one of the neighbors saying there's a dog been worrying my sheep and it looks like *pet*, I'm going to shoot it the next time it comes on my place, and the answer was Oh no, *pet* is lazy and sleeps on the porch all night, she'd never go on your place and worry your sheep, go ahead and shoot it. Next night rolls around and buddy gets a call, I shot that dog that was worrying my sheep but I don't think I killed it outright. Where's that *pet* of yours?
    Well, *pet* wasn't on the porch, *pet* came dragging in at 3 AM, shot clean through the ribcage, so $600 at the emergency vet and $600 for the value of the sheep later . . .
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2004
    Posts
    3,096

    Default

    My neighbors know I will shoot to kill, so any escapees are quickly rounded up Plus fortunately none of the jailbreakers seem to want to negotiate the combination electric braid and the loud and territorial mini donk team of Chuck and Larry.

    One neighbor a few houses away has expressly, repeatedly, and quite seriously requested that we shoot his wife's daffy, half deaf, and completely senile elderly hunting dog who has a penchant for escaping and wandering to our property. The old coot couldn't chase a box turtle so I just shake my head and pick up the phone....



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2003
    Location
    Manchester, MI
    Posts
    1,375

    Default

    After reading this thread, and others like it, all I have to say to those who think "SSS" is cruel and unnecessary is those of us who can do it, will do it, because sadly the laws in this country prevent the smart animal owners from shooting the dumb ones.
    Come to the darkside...we have cookies.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    In Trouble with Dad...
    Posts
    29,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fargonefarm View Post
    After reading this thread, and others like it, all I have to say to those who think "SSS" is cruel and unnecessary is those of us who can do it, will do it, because sadly the laws in this country prevent the smart animal owners from shooting the dumb ones.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH


    too bad I love my ponies, or this would be my sig

    Sadly it is frowned upon to bury (human) bodies in the manure pile....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    5,490

    Default

    I thought I would point out, too, that many a nice family dog is just that until he's running with other dogs - dogs in a pack will do what any one of them would never do alone.

    "Pack mentality" has a meaning - they will gang up and hunt livestock and kill it, and sometimes kill senselessly, just because they are in a pack and
    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2008
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    2,086

    Default

    I have been a member of the SSS Club. I am an avid animal lover, but when your livelihood is your livestock, there comes a time when there's only so much that can be done.

    Setting:
    100 acres; fencing consisting of hogwire, barbed wire runner at the top, and capped t-posts. 100 acres divided among 4 pastures containing red Limousin beef cattle and llamas (not together.)

    Location:
    RURAL Georgia (appx. an hour from Atlanta - no local Animal Control - no local Police Dept. you get the idea)

    I worked on my ex's cattle farm, and there was a pack of dogs running together. These were not family pets. They were dogs that started out as family pets (or their parents, grandparents, whatever did) and as years went by, reproduced and ran with a pack that would kill other dogs, cats, chickens, turkeys, calves, and the final straw....two cria (baby llamas.)

    My ex in-laws were in the mindset of SSS whatever came on their property (think Secondhand Lions but add animals into the mix of victims in their crosshairs.)

    On December 7th, 2002, "Pearl" was born: a white cria. By the time I had ridden back up to the house to grab a camera, I noticed that mom looked worried, panicking, making blowing noises, and completely unsettled. She was being cornered by three dogs while "Pearl" was being helplessly ripped apart by the others.

    Yes, I SSS. Yes, I felt it was valid as llamas and cattle were their primary source of income. Were there more SSS incidents? Yes. Did the packs ever cease? Not in the time that I had been with them.
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    3,586

    Default

    Y'know, there are few people who advocate more for dogs and non-lethal solutions to behavior/management issues than I do, but I got a rifle and learned to use it specifically to be able to protect my animals from the unfortunate dogs of the idiot neighbors.

    New neighbor's intact, large breed dog came onto my property and ran my sheep through the fence. I drove the dog off, and promptly called animal control. I also contacted local folks known to have this breed, as I thought it might be a stray (it was in poor condition, and I didn't know we had a new neighbor at that point). Dog was back the next day, *much* more intense, and more fencing damaged. This time the new neighbor showed up as I was driving the creature off with a pitchfork.

    Owner insisted dog wasn't a "bad dog" (which of course it wasn't, it was just a dog ) and that he just wanted to say hello to the sheep. I explained that, no, he was progressing to killing the sheep, reminded him that we have a leash law, told him what it would cost to replace the fence and that I'd take a check, and offered to work with him to set the dog up for a massive zap from the fence in the event that the dog inadvertently got loose again. New neighbor obviously thought I was out of line to suggest he keep his dog on his own property.

    Not 10 minutes later, as I was on the phone to AC (document! document!), neighbor shows back up with a check. As I'm taking the check, his dog runs past us again ("He keeps chewing through the rope!") headed for the sheep. Luckily this time the dog got a significant hit of the electric on its nose (big-coated breed so had just gone through the fence before without feeling anything) and took off. Neighbor was upset that I was responsible for scaring the dog.

    ACO went and gave them a talking to, made it very clear to me that I could do whatever I had to do, made it clear to them that I was being far more dog-friendly than I had to be and that they should expect the dog to end up shot if they continued to allow it to get loose.

    Dog has been secured ever since, and they take it for leash walks.

    So while I *haven't* SSSed, and never want have to, I'm prepared to, and understand that sometimes it's what has to be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies".


    Yep. Utterly irresponsible on many levels to let dogs roam. I don't care *where* people live. Dogs are dogs--they're predators and pack animals, and *any* dog is capable of becoming a problem around stock.



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