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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    PS they are not called "Farms" out here...they are "Ranches."
    Only when the saddles have horns.



  2. #42

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    I totally understand where YL is coming from. 40 horses all suitable for the same stallion sitting in one pasture...... probably not..... if you're picky and want to improve specific parts of "a" mare and try to ensure each (and every) foal has the best potential for sport/reining/ranching life/whatever as possible. Each mare is an individual, that's why we use different stallions on a specific mare.

    I know a lot of QH breeders do it like has been described (50-100 mares in a field w/one stallion) and hundreds to go slaughter every year because of it. So they pick out the FEW good ones from those random breedings (because that's what it is when each stallion hasn't been 'cherry picked' for a particular mare) and let the rest "go" (per pound) - literally. Pays the bills I'm sure with the numbers I've heard. I used to board at an x-qh farm and the stories were shocking to me to say the least.

    I just heard of a farm in Ohio? that's like this. I won't name the "breed" (if you'd call it that) but a few decent ones are sold for sport horses and the owner has a deal with someone in Mexico for the extras.



  3. #43
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    I live in Alberta, Canada. Cattle/ranch/rodeo country. There are TONNES of QH breeders here and the vast majority seem to run their horses in the typical ranch fashion and our local auction marts are flooding with the results. The avergae price of these horses is meat price (which is about $80.00 bucks for a registered QH weanling). There are tonnes of production sales in the fall here and the average price again is meat price. So while I agree that there is a demand for an all around ranch horse, the market is WAY flooded (which is what happens when you can produce hundreds of foals per farm per year so cheaply and so easily).

    The breeders I know that breed reining/cutting types manage their horses much in the way most of us here do. They use AI, they don't run a huge herd with one stallion and they most certainly do not leave the mares to just foal out on their own (hoping for the best).

    I don't think any breeder keeps a mare around and tries everything under the sun to get her pregnant despite her poor fertility. Unless you literally have a world class horse, it just really is not a good buisness decision. So just because you don't run a huge herd of mares and leave things to nature doesn't mean you are breeding horses with poor fertility.



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    Kyzteke - so you used to be a cattle rancher that bred horses on the side in one of your past lives?

    I suggest you go to one of those farms and ask them the prices of their youngsters..... Last time I checked I wasn't willing to let my "carefully managed" WB foals go for $500.00/head and regardless of how many of those I sold to trail riders, I still wouldn't have made any money.


    You're going to the wrong ranches then....and most of these ranches don't sell them as weanlings....most are kept until they are 2-3-4 and started..keeping them doesn't cost a lot as there is grazing and hay production on most of the ranches so feed costs are minimal. They live outside so barns are minimal or non-existant. They are started under saddle by ranch hands who are paid a salary so training costs are minimal. They get vaccinated and treated for worms and have hoof care all done by the ranch hands (and using vaccines/wormer ordered in bulk and usually wholesale priced) so those costs are also minimal. They can easily get several thousand to $25K or more for a well started youngster that cost maybe $1000 to raise to that point. Some ranches do have production sales....sometimes weanlings are in there but $2500 and up isn't unusual....and sometimes there are started horses (usually geldings) and the occasional broodmare (usually broke to ride) that for one reason or another isn't working in that particular breeding program. And any horse that does go as a broke horse....is broke...you can rope off of him, ride fence, ground tie, throw a deer over his rump to carry home, shoot off his back and pack the kids on him in the front yard with just a halter and leadrope.

    BTW....I'm anticipating $3500-7500 for some of my weanlings this summer/fall and already have inquiries from both England and Germany for unborn foals.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
    This is fabulous - I am so pleased to learn that breeding top horses is so simple that I need only buy a big tract of land out west and toss a bunch of mares out on the range with a stallion and let nature do all of the work! Cool!

    Regarding the numbers bred to Storm Cat - FYI some WB stallions are bred to many hundreds of mares per year, and yes, many are bred to unsuitable ones. But my point was that it seems unrealistic to think that 40 mares owned by the same owner would all be suited to one stallion. How does that even happen? Were these all acquired for the purpose of breeding to the stallion? Was the stallion purchased to compliment all 40 mares and just happens to be the optimal - or even a good choice - for all of them? That is not analogous to having 40 mare owners coincidentally opt for the same stallion to compliment each of their mares.

    Good luck with that plan. Most of the ranchers I know are 3-4-5th generation people that have done this for all that time. They have grown up knowing pedigrees, bloodlines, characteristics, what seems to be dominant, what lines cross best with what others.

    Buying a chunk of land...sure....be sure you know about which pastures (1000 acres or so) has what soil and grows the best grass when so that you can arrange to move your stock around from pasture to pasture for the best feed. Be sure to know where the worst weather comes from and how the hills and valleys provide shelter or not. Be sure and keep up fencing for possibly a 100 miles or so. If your chunk of land has BLM grazing allotments be sure you know what management you will be doing on that land to keep your grazing permits. Be sure you know what programs are there to help support riparian areas for wildlife (which you won't be able to use for your stock in some cases). Happens all the time....someone gets a chunk of money and buys land and hasn't a clue how to manage it. Smart ones hire a ranch manager. Dumb ones go bankrupt pretty quickly.

    These ranches have generations of breeding stock....anywhere from a couple to 8-10 or more. They KNOW what they have and what best crosses with it. They KNOW bloodlines, conformation, breeding/production history on every mare and probably generations behind her. It is entirely possible to get a band of mares that are highly consistant when you do this. So it is relatively easy to find or breed the stallion that should cross well on that particular group of mares. They aren't a random bunch of mares selected from the local Saturday auction. For many ranches they are the result of generations of producing for consistancy. It seems that 40 individuals buying a mare that might cross well with one WB stallion is perfectly within reason but a family that has bred 40 mares over several generations and seeing them as potentially good crosses for one stallion is not. How better to determine if a stallion will produce what you want than to breed him to a group of consistant mares?....if the foals are inconsistant then the stallion is not going to be used again...lesson learned in one season. If he sires consistant foals that are not the quality you want...well, lesson learned in one season. If he sires consistant foals that are as good as you hoped or better...he gets to stay with that band of mares. When the stallion comes from the same type of breeding program there's a very good chance that he will, if properly selected, be exactly the right cross for that band of mares. The owner of one WB mare might not get that info for 2-3-4 years of breeding to the same stallion. Unless the 40 owners of those WB mares all have the same kind of mare (consistancy) you won't be able to tell if inconsistancy in the foals is from the stallion or the variety in the mares.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloredcowhorse View Post
    Good luck with that plan. Most of the ranchers I know are 3-4-5th generation people that have done this for all that time. They have grown up knowing pedigrees, bloodlines, characteristics, what seems to be dominant, what lines cross best with what others.

    Buying a chunk of land...sure....be sure you know about which pastures (1000 acres or so) has what soil and grows the best grass when so that you can arrange to move your stock around from pasture to pasture for the best feed. Be sure to know where the worst weather comes from and how the hills and valleys provide shelter or not. Be sure and keep up fencing for possibly a 100 miles or so. If your chunk of land has BLM grazing allotments be sure you know what management you will be doing on that land to keep your grazing permits. Be sure you know what programs are there to help support riparian areas for wildlife (which you won't be able to use for your stock in some cases). Happens all the time....someone gets a chunk of money and buys land and hasn't a clue how to manage it. Smart ones hire a ranch manager. Dumb ones go bankrupt pretty quickly.

    These ranches have generations of breeding stock....anywhere from a couple to 8-10 or more. They KNOW what they have and what best crosses with it. They KNOW bloodlines, conformation, breeding/production history on every mare and probably generations behind her. It is entirely possible to get a band of mares that are highly consistant when you do this. So it is relatively easy to find or breed the stallion that should cross well on that particular group of mares. They aren't a random bunch of mares selected from the local Saturday auction. For many ranches they are the result of generations of producing for consistancy. It seems that 40 individuals buying a mare that might cross well with one WB stallion is perfectly within reason but a family that has bred 40 mares over several generations and seeing them as potentially good crosses for one stallion is not. How better to determine if a stallion will produce what you want than to breed him to a group of consistant mares?....if the foals are inconsistant then the stallion is not going to be used again...lesson learned in one season. If he sires consistant foals that are not the quality you want...well, lesson learned in one season. If he sires consistant foals that are as good as you hoped or better...he gets to stay with that band of mares. When the stallion comes from the same type of breeding program there's a very good chance that he will, if properly selected, be exactly the right cross for that band of mares. The owner of one WB mare might not get that info for 2-3-4 years of breeding to the same stallion. Unless the 40 owners of those WB mares all have the same kind of mare (consistancy) you won't be able to tell if inconsistancy in the foals is from the stallion or the variety in the mares.
    Thank you CCH! These guys just don't get it. Probably because it's so foreign to what they know.

    Ok, fair enough -- we all tend to look with suscipion at what we don't know. But please DO believe us when we tell you these really top ranchers are good businessmen, and most of these ranches have been in their families for generations.

    Look, the are "junk" breeds in all breeds. Over the course of the years we've heard about abuse, disaster, starvation, etc. regarding breeders of just about every breed there is.

    But what THIS thread is about is about actually making $$ breeding and management styles that result in high fertility and low foal death.

    And the "ranch" model, done well, by knowledgeable ranchers who know their stock, know their land and know how to market is a very, very effective system.

    As for WBs being more like TBs in terms of "hard keepers" -- most of the ones I've come across were just the opposite. But, again, perhaps that's something to look at in terms of changing your stock to increase profit.

    If you fill your barn full of hard keepers, you are setting yourself AND your future foals up for the same genetic difficulty, therefore raising the cost per foal and (obviously) lowering your profit margin. I'm not Warren Buffet, but this seems pretty obvious to me.

    And CCH made a brilliant point that I totally missed. If you knew that your stallion crossed best with mares of the R, G and D line (let's say), wouldn't it be pretty smart to get 40 of THEM (assuming quality, conformation, soundness & fertility were all relatively equal), rather than just pick 40 mares at random?

    Well, that's what these GOOD (and I really can't emphasize that enough) ranchers do. Because most of them are now on their 5-6-7 generation of stock, they know exactly what works and what doesn't. They do the same thing WB breeders do -- find good "nicks" among their stock, bring in young stallions from time to time, TEST their stock (by using them on the ranch for afew years before breeding/selling them), etc.

    They aren't doing this blind -- not by a long shot.

    And let's say you "only" get $7000 for your 5-6 year old ranch gelding at the auction. Well, if it only cost $1000 to raise the horse till he's 2, costs virtually nothing to break him ('cause you have folks on staff that do that anyway), and his "training" is working his hinnie off for you doing jobs that need to be done anyway on a ranch, PLUS you raise your own hay & grain....AND you sell sell 30-50 of those "cheap" horses per year at the ranch gelding auctions. You are making a clear profit of approx. $3000-4000 (or more) per horse x 50....hmmm. That's $200,000. Every year.

    And I'm always hearing breeders on this board cry because "how can you make a profit selling a weanling for $10K when it costs $8000 to breed them?"

    Answer? You can't. So compare these two models and see who is the smarter business person.



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    And let's say you "only" get $7000 for your 5-6 year old ranch gelding at the auction. Well, if it only cost $1000 to raise the horse till he's 2, costs virtually nothing to break him ('cause you have folks on staff that do that anyway), and his "training" is working his hinnie off for you doing jobs that need to be done anyway on a ranch, PLUS you raise your own hay & grain....AND you sell sell 30-50 of those "cheap" horses per year at the ranch gelding auctions. You are making a clear profit of approx. $3000-4000 (or more) per horse x 50....hmmm. That's $200,000. Every year.

    And I'm always hearing breeders on this board cry because "how can you make a profit selling a weanling for $10K when it costs $8000 to breed them?"

    Answer? You .can't. So compare these two models and see who is the smarter business person
    You are just not making fair comparisons. How is it that it only costs $1000 to raise a horse from foal until 2 - or started under saddle - even on these big ranches? They pay their staff, right? And for the land? And utilities, taxes, etc?
    Roseknoll Sporthorses
    www.roseknoll.net



  8. #48

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    It's apples and oranges IMO. One is where the horse is bred like a livestock the other is cherry picking "the" right stallion for the mare to get an exceptional competition horse.

    [AND you sell sell 30-50 of those "cheap" horses per year at the ranch gelding auctions.
    I can't see any sport horse breeder breeding excess horses so they can go to slaughter.

    THE way to make money in sport horses is to breed them, sell the 'ok' weanlings/foals for cheap to move them out (cheap being 6-7k as weanlings), take the nice ones off the market, keep them a couple of years, get them started as late 2 year olds, and then list them as started 3 year olds for 30k+ and up. That's how you make money with sport horses.



  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
    How is it that it only costs $1000 to raise a horse from foal until 2 - or started under saddle - even on these big ranches?

    They don't touch the horse until a buyer comes to look at it. And then it's running around like a wild animal because it is a wild animal. They run them through a shoot/stock for injections, hooves (maybe once or twice a year). When land is dirt cheap and a ton of horses are produced and then sold every year the cost/animal goes waaaay down. I got a REAL lesson in this a few weeks ago when someone I know bought one of these as a "project". Holy cow.... I had no idea places like this still existed.



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
    You are just not making fair comparisons. How is it that it only costs $1000 to raise a horse from foal until 2 - or started under saddle - even on these big ranches? They pay their staff, right? And for the land? And utilities, taxes, etc?


    Again....some of these properties have been in family hands since the mid 1800's so no, the land may not have a payment on it at all. Ranch hands work for next to nothing in terms of cash...they get housing (often a mobile home), water, utilities, beef, garden space, a company truck sometimes, or at least the use of it. Most ranches don't pay much in the way of benefits (health insurance for instance is almost non-existant). They get to keep their horses usually at no cost and their "landlord" (the ranch owner) doesn't usually mind if they have a dog or two. The wife (if there is one) may have a job related to the ranch as well....cook, bookkeeper or, in some of the more isolated ones, teacher for her own kids plus those of the ranch. She may be a housekeeper for the main ranch house. Or caretake for the ranchers Alzheimers afflicted mother who wants to stay at home. Big ranches, especially the big cattle ranches, are almost like a small village...they take care of everything. A ranch hand likely does the farrier work and since, often, a vet is hours away if available at all, they are all pretty good at taking care of what needs doing but realistic enough to know when a bullet is the cure. These are pretty tough people. Some ranches have no power except a generator. Some still have no phone service or cell service only. They tend to be pretty self contained.

    If they are a half million acre place (not that unusual a size) they likely put up hay on part of it, maybe wheat or barley on another part. They have a rotation of pasture land so it doesn't get grazed down and horses and cattle move from valley land in the winter to higher land in the summer and back down in the winter. Depending on their land they may have enough winter grazing that they don't have to feed hay or only feed during the winter. Horses aren't grained unless they are broke and working. Just for an idea of the income a ranch might see.....lets say a ranch has 5000 acres in prime alfalfa hay land. The rancher gets 4 cuttings for a total of 10 tons per acre for the hay season. That's 50,000 tons of hay. This year it is reported that China is buying and already paying for much of the west coast alfalfa and the contract price is $200/ton. That's a $10 million dollar crop. If he's got 100 head of horses that eat 4 tons of hay per year (if he's feeding all of them all year long) that's 400 tons of hay...so he's going to "lose" $80,000 in hay sales in order to feed his horses all year. BUT...the hay cost him about $75/ton to raise...or his actual expense is $3000. Spread out over 100 horses that's pretty cheap feed. And almost none of these horses are on hay year round from weaning until they are two or three years old...they are on hay when in the corrals and being trained or worked ...and if they are working they are MAKING money for the rancher by doing work that needs to be done...they have a JOB. If they aren't working or being trained they are on pasture....land that isn't level enough for farming but raises good forage for stock.

    Like any other business, their business expenses are deductible. They depreciate their stock purchases, their machinery, their vehicles, the homes they build for workers, their fencing, corrals, hay barns/sheds, the tarps for the hay etc. And in many areas there are tax breaks for agricultural land as well as income from federal programs for fallow land, for repair of riparian areas etc. The old saying out here is that ranchers and farmers tend to live poor (when a tractor capable of doing really heavy work might cost $100K) but tend to die rich due to the assets they have.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    To compare raising quarterhorses and warmbloods is like comparing apples to oranges. I am aware of the big prices that some quarterhorses bring, and don't discount their value. But they are quite different when it comes to their nutritional needs. The modern warmblood would be closer to a thoroughbred in its metabolism - they need more than being put out on a range with maybe an extra bale or two of hay to flourish. By the same standard, a quarterhorse would be obese if fed a typical warmblood's diet. One must consider what each type of horse was bred for. It only makes sense that the Quarterhorse would be a lower maintenance animal, built for short durations of speed to catch cattle and hardiness to survive the elements on cattle drives.
    Actually the QH would likely be obese if on his routine diet and kept in a stall all day or have an hour or two of turn out or ridden for an hour (and have that considered to having been worked hard). However, many of the ranch horses do have a fairly high percentage of TB blood in them.....especially the ropers as they need both size and speed to do their job. I'm going to assume that you are aware that "a bale or two of hay" on most ranches these days would be over a ton of hay. Most ranches now put hay up in either "1/2 ton" (actually weighs about 1250 lbs when brought out of the field and may continue to dry so that by end of winter it really is about 1000 lbs) or "one ton" bales. A QH that isn't working is a pretty easy keeping horse. A TB that was out on range would also likely be a pretty easy keeper....he'd be wandering around all day eating good forage, having little to no stress, probably no ulcers, probably no or very little parasite load. It's truly amazing to see how easy horses become to keep when they are allowed to be horses. Working QH's are likely to eat as much per pound of body wt as the TB....the average for a working QH is probably somewhere in the 20lbs/1000 lbs body wt. Now your TB may be bigger but he probably eats a similar proportion of good hay. The working QH probably gets some grain just as your working TB or WB would. The QH may not get the 1/4 tsp of this supplement or the 1/2 scoop of something else but they likely do get a good trace/mineral (usually formulated by a local mill for their own area) supplement...usually in the form of a salt block or a lick tub.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by back in the saddle View Post
    I know a lot of QH breeders do it like has been described (50-100 mares in a field w/one stallion) and hundreds to go slaughter every year because of it. So they pick out the FEW good ones from those random breedings (because that's what it is when each stallion hasn't been 'cherry picked' for a particular mare) and let the rest "go" (per pound) - literally. (
    And how many OTTB do you suppose are also going to slaughter? Or TB's that never even make it to the track? The QH is the most popular breed in the world (possibly second to Arabs but it would be pretty close). Of course that means that there are more QH breeders as there are many more QH buyers than there are TB or WB buyers. The majority of horse people (who, according to the figures from the American Horse Council are only involved in horses for an average of 5 years anyway) simply do not want a 16-17 hand hot blood horse that is reportedly a hard keeping breed and has to be retrained before they can take it out on a trail ride. They do buy well bred, level headed, intelligent horses that take care of them out on that trail. And yes, the majority of horse owners in this country can't ride for beans....so they do need and buy those safe sane QH's. And yeah, some go to slaughter. So do TB's, ASB's, WB's, Percherons, Friesans and all the other breeds out there.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  13. #53

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    And yeah, some go to slaughter. So do TB's, ASB's, WB's, Percherons, Friesans and all the other breeds out there.
    The WB's are not bred in excess like the qh's are. With the two farms I personally know about (the x-qh farm and the "mixed breed" farm in Ohio) it's a given fact a certain % will be sold by the pound. That's the difference. Go to any cheap auction and tell me the percentage of qh's/tb's/other including WB's there are.

    The numbers and examples we're talking about are again apples to oranges.



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloredcowhorse View Post
    ....If they are a half million acre place (not that unusual a size) they likely put up hay on part of it, maybe wheat or barley on another part. They have a rotation of pasture land so it doesn't get grazed down and horses and cattle move from valley land in the winter to higher land in the summer and back down in the winter.
    A little bit less than 100 miles by 100 miles in size. This is not unusual? It is not that common at all.
    The 10th largest ranch in the USA is 740,000 acres. The largest farm in Alberta is only 90,000 acres.

    Some of the largest in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_and_stations



  15. #55
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    They don't touch the horse until a buyer comes to look at it. And then it's running around like a wild animal because it is a wild animal. They run them through a shoot/stock for injections, hooves (maybe once or twice a year). When land is dirt cheap and a ton of horses are produced and then sold every year the cost/animal goes waaaay down. I got a REAL lesson in this a few weeks ago when someone I know bought one of these as a "project". Holy cow.... I had no idea places like this still existed.

    Uhm yeah, they exist all right. Like I said, we live in the heart of cattle country. Many many ranches, rodeo/western culture rules here. This sort of breeding setup is more the norm here ..it is far from a rarity. I have attended many a local auction and was HORRIFIED...I mean seriously discusted on a whole new level at the number of well conformed, young, papered QH's going straight to the plant. QH's after QH..and ranch bred. If you show up before the auctions start you will see big rigs drive in and then unload 20 or so QH youngsters. Usually weanlings. It's really awful. The filly I bought ( a lovely little Skipper W bred filly) had been through the auction THREE times in her short six months of life.

    I know of two breeders here that breed warmbloods and run them like cattle. Both bought a few stallions (fairly nice and well bred) and then had at it. But it doesn't work. It's no longer good enough to just breed "a warmblood". They need to be the right type and they need to be started in a timely fashion. Having 50 seven year olds that are still feral is not a good buisness decision (though apparently they can't seem to figure that out). I know for a fact that these breeders routinely ship truck loads of healthy youngsters because they can't sell them for what they believe they are worth. At the end of the day they view the horses they breed as disposable commodities.

    When you have/breed that many horses, something has to give. And at the end of the day, someone who has no issue shipping healthy youngsters is not likely someone who is going to be overly concerned with sick foals, foaling issues ect and I highly doubt these people discuss such issues on online forums ect ect.



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    A little bit less than 100 miles by 100 miles in size. This is not unusual? It is not that common at all.
    The 10th largest ranch in the USA is 740,000 acres. The largest farm in Alberta is only 90,000 acres.

    Some of the largest in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_and_stations
    A single ranch may have several pieces of deeded property plus an almost equal amount of land in BLM grazing allotments and when discussing ranch size that is all included. The separate pieces may even be in different states (the case in northern California/Nevada and the Nevada/southern Oregon areas for instance). The separate pieces are sometimes listed as separate sized pieces (due to different purchase dates or other such reasons) when acreage is officially listed. Separate pieces may even have different names officially but a single business having control of half a million acres is not that uncommon.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  17. #57
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    The above link is total land mass. They are the largest in the US and many of the largest are under 20,000 acres. The largest in Canada is only half a million.

    This link is largest land owners http://www.landreport.com/americas-1...st-landowners/



  18. #58
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    Again...you appear to not understand that a single person may have several ranches...in his business they all come under XYZ Ranch although each of them has its own name so would not show as being part of the same ranch as ABC Ranch. These also do not show BLM grazing allotments that ranches count as part of the acreage that they are responsible for and run livestock on. Nor do they count leases of properties that a ranch may hold.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  19. #59
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    My point was that it is not that common. That sort of land mass takes multiple millions of dollars to acquire or maintain and it is not common to have that type of financial resources. The last link is total land, in all locations, for all uses. So not sure how you can say that I am missing the point. This is total land owned. Period.
    If you notice, the people/families listed are among the financially elite in the US and I would not think anyone with that type of resources could be counted as "not unusual".

    I live in an area where land is relatively cheap compared to many places in the US and it is over $1000 an acre. That is the min average in the US for farm land. Even at that, every 1000 acres is 1 million dollars. 20 thousand acres is a min of 20 million and an average of 40 million. Half a million acres would be 500 million dollars in net assets, at min land value and twice that would be 1 billion dollars in assets, at the national land average. This is not un-common to have 500 million to a billion dollars in land assets?
    That ain't bacon and beans over a camp fire type operations.

    August 2010 USDA Report: The United States farm real estate value, a measurement of the value of all land and buildings on farms, averaged $2,140 per acre on January 1, 2010, up 1.4 percent from 2009. Regional changes in the average value of farm real estate ranged from a 4.9 percent increase in the Northern Plains regions to a 3.3 percent decline in the Southeast region. The highest farm real estate values remained in the Northeast region at $4,690 per acre. The Mountain region had the lowest farm real estate value, $911 per acre.

    The United States cropland value increased by $30 per acre (1.1 percent) to $2,700 per acre. In the Northern Plains and Delta regions, the average cropland value increased 6.9 and 6.1 percent, respectively, from the previous year. However, in the Southeast and Mountain regions, cropland values decreased by 5.3 percent and 5.0 percent, respectively.

    The United States pasture value was unchanged from 2009 at $1,070 per acre. The Southeast region had the largest percentage decrease in pasture value, 5.6 percent below 2009. The Northern Plains region had the highest percentage increase, 3.8 percent above 2009....

    Nationally, cash rents per acre paid to landlords for cropland in 2010 rose $3.00 (3.0 percent), while pasture rents remained unchanged. Cropland cash rents averaged $102.00 per acre, compared with $99.00 per acre for 2009. Pasture cash rents averaged $11.00 per acre, consistent with the 2009 price but above the 2008 price of $10.50. The increase in cropland land rental rates are the result of producers receiving strong commodity prices, while pasture cash rent is affected less by commodity prices and more by land values.

    The Appalachian region had the highest percentage increase for cropland, 7.6 percent above 2009. Cropland cash rents increased $2.50 per acre to $71.00 in the Northern Plains region and $3.00 per acre to $152.00 in the Corn Belt region. The Corn Belt and Northern Plains regions account for slightly more than one half of cash rented cropland acreage in the United States.

    The major corn and soybean producing states of Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa experienced increases in cropland cash rents. Illinois increased 3.7 percent to $169.00 per acre, while Indiana and Iowa both increased approximately 1 percent to $141.00 and $176.00 per acre, respectively.

    While pasture rent in the Northern Plains remained unchanged from the previous year, rents in the Southern Plains increased by 10 cents and rents in the Mountain region decreased 10 cents. The Northern Plains, Southern Plains, and Mountain regions account for nearly 83 percent of the cash rented pasture acreage in the United States. The cash rent paid for pasture in the Corn Belt region decreased $1.50 to $29.50 per acre, which is the highest cash rent paid for pasture in the United States.
    Input costs for seeding is $150 for a cheaper crop. For even 5000 acres, the input would be 3/4 of a million dollars.
    Last edited by stoicfish; Apr. 25, 2011 at 03:06 AM.



  20. #60
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    Why must we always drag Storm Cat into every conversation because he stood for 500k and TB people are the be all end all of breeding? I got on far more crap out of SC than I ever got on good ones and I got on the exceptional ones too. If I had the top 20 TB producing mares in the world I may have one or two that would have gone to SC but it all would depend on the mare and her type.

    And I'll tell you something else, SC was a success due to his owner Mr. Young. He did whatever he could deal wise to get the good mares to him in those early years. I'll never forget when the very first crop of SC's came to the farm to be broken. Never saw such a uniform collection of squatty little big muscled babies. But never the less, the numbers were there to get success from a few and the legend grew. SC passed some good qualities on to his kids but conformation and breathing were issues. But make no mistake about it, there would have been no legend of SC without the driving force of Mr. Young. Hickstead owners should take note. Want to prove everyone wrong, follow Mr. Young's plan.

    I don't know anything about big ranch operations. They do what they do and have success just like the TB industry. But let's face it, both are numbers games. The very big warmblood farms in Europe are numbers games too. You will get your good ones, of course you will.

    But guess what, that's not COTH and not me. So why are you hearing about all the sad stories of lost babies and mares? Well for one, we know coming here to share tragedy is like one big hug. This is a big enough group that most have been through what you have and therefore a great place for support. We talk about mares not getting pregnant because maybe one little snippet from other sources could be the one thing you haven't tried. What it doesn't mean is that all small warmblood breeders have less success than the other ways of breeding management.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.


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