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  1. #1
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    Default Shocking Video of BLM horses

    http://www.barnmice.com/video/blm-wi...es-butterfield

    Manure up to your knees, 30 horses laying down and not moving for 3 hours, infected wounds and "missing" foals? Not a nice place to be horse.

    The conditions in this video are deplorable... I don't know much about the BLM horses but does this sort of thing go on regularily? I hope not.



  2. #2
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    that certainly does look bad.

    However, this is March, mud season.

    Do they know why that mare was down, was she hurt, sick?

    The wound is pretty huge on that buckskin, but it does look like it has been treated with blue coat by the bluish tint to it.

    IDK- I guess I kind of feel like you can't believe everything you see, for some reason I don't trust the truth of the video...
    Last edited by gloriginger; Apr. 11, 2011 at 03:06 PM. Reason: stupid typos!



  3. #3
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    Good point Gloringer! We only see what the video wants us to see.

    Of course March is mud season but there is mud and then there is MUD. The video looks pretty nasty - I wouldn't want to be standing in that day after day.

    Not sure about why the mare - or the others mentioned - were down for so long. I think the video says you can get the full video somewhere and it might explain why there.



  4. #4
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    I don't like to see animals standing in that much mud but it IS the end of the winter and these are not domesticated animals. It's a holding facility for feral animals. No matter how good the care is they are not going to look like sleek show horses. They're feral.

    They are in much better shape than they would be after a harsh winter out on the range, and that's the truth. There are no veterinarians and round bales in the middle of nowhere. Horses just die - and they may suffer a great deal before they die.

    Hopefully the activist alerted the right people about the downed horse, and didn't just film it and then walk away.

    Not sure what I'm supposed to get all frothy about. These animals are not tame; and they may be far more active than normal because they're not used to be penned up - so they're churning up more mud than a tame, well handled domestic horse.

    Downed animals happen, even in high end show barns - if you see a downed horse you can't just assume no one cares about its suffering - the custodian may not be aware the animal is down.

    Perhaps the full story (both sides) is available somewhere so people can get more balanced information based on facts.



  5. #5
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    Oct. 1, 2005
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    I am familiar with the Butterfield facility, can ride by there from a friend's house. I haven't seen it for some months re: winter, but...

    1. Some of those shots 'could' be Butterfield.
    2. Yes, it's the muddy season. I will note that a private horse owner was complained about LAST March for cruelty because his horses were standing around in the mud. Complaint dismissed because the horse owner demonstrated via photographs that his horses COULD go stand on dry ground but chose not to. Likewise what you don't know unless you see Butterfield's layout is, yeah, there are some less muddy spots available. If BLM can figure out how to train the average horse to always stand where the humans want it to stand, I will happily pay them for the info.
    3. I can tell you that when I've seen that facility during non-mud season there is NOTHING remotely suggesting that those horses are ever hock deep in manure. So I call BS on Lisa Friday on that one.
    4. As for the horse laying down and the 'grey' horse 'protecting' the one that's down- well, sorry, I see a horse snoozing in the mud, no evidence of distress or discomfort. Buddies protect their able bodied friends in group settings that way. So again I call bogus.
    5. The emaciated horse, if you look at the picture, shows brush in the background. There IS NO brush in the holding pens at Butterfield. So, my own suspicion is they have thrown that false info in there for inflammatory purposes.
    6. The horse with the wound- well, in the picture, it sure doesn't look infected to me, and the narrator notes BLM is treating it. Whadya want? Looks like a kick wound. That happens to horses all the time. Again- inflammatory not factual.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preposterous Ponies! View Post
    http://www.barnmice.com/video/blm-wi...es-butterfield

    Manure up to your knees, 30 horses laying down and not moving for 3 hours, infected wounds and "missing" foals? Not a nice place to be horse.

    The conditions in this video are deplorable... I don't know much about the BLM horses but does this sort of thing go on regularily? I hope not.

    In case no one doing the filming noticed the property appears to have some hillside to it...and water runs downhill. This means mud in the lower areas. Those lower areas are also likely to be the ones more accessible to put those big bales (not sure but guessing they are either the 1250 lb or the 2000 lb bales that are baled around here and it takes a big forklift to haul them out and raise them to put them in feeders like these shown here) into feeders. This was filmed a month ago when it was just beginning to really break out from a snowy, snowy winter....everywhere was muddy. Utah is part of the Great Basin as is Nevada and some parts of southern Oregon...there is no where for water to run TO as this area is an ancient lakebed. For instance, there are NO rivers that run OUT of the state of NV and when rivers are full of spring run off the land is saturated. Most of the film showed horses in mud perhaps fetlock deep and only deeper around the feeders...which is where horses gather and stand around and pee and poo.

    Regarding horse with the cut on her shoulder...looked like a probable hoof cut from the curved edge on it, looked like it had some medication on the hide around it, and yeah, if there had been a kick that resulted in a skin tear like that the horse was likely sore on that shoulder and mildly lame. I had a horse do the same thing in a corral...healed fine with just some lime powder and was sore for maybe 3-4 days post kick....I'd probably have been sore a lot longer than that if I got kicked.

    Regarding horse laying down....I have horses that will lay for several hours and are perfectly comfortable finding the top of the manure piles that they create out in the fields....probably warmer due to composting and darker color absorbing sun heat.

    Regarding "missing foal". This was filmed in March. From watching the mustang herd in my own neighborhood the mustangs seldom foal before late April to early May....they are long day breeders and the longest day of the year is June 21 so most breeding behavior isn't seen until mid to late May, June and July with a few late breedings in early August. Most foals appear to be born in May and June with some in July. I wouldn't expect to see foals from mustang mares in mid March (and it is possible a mare aborted relatively late in her pregnancy and that was the foal that was "born" and then "missing"). Only in human controlled breedings do mares get pregnant as early as most domestic horses do.

    Regarding emaciated horse....did look thin but then the entire frame was out of proportion with the vertical much more emphasized than the horizontal...those are juniper trees in the background and they tend to the short and fat instead of tall and lean as shown in this.

    These horses ALL looked pretty darn well fed to me and the ones on the range right now do not....some of the ones in my area are in decent weight but much of this area is old farms so there are grain crops that they had during the fall/winter and the relatively mild winter with lots of rain/snow has encouraged a lot of rye growth early. Usually by this time of year they are looking thin.

    Just another of the inflammatory videos designed to stir up the "save all the mustang" stuff.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  7. #7
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    Thanks for the personal insight Beverley! A lot of good points already mentioned in the posts above mine.

    I'm not familiar with the area, but mud happens. If they have dry areas (and the video only shows what the video'er wants to show), that's the best you can do, especially with feral animals. It all really depends on the area and what is and what is not possible or realistic.

    The downed horse by the feeder?? Yeah. Horse lie down sometimes In fact, they have to, to avoid being subject to sleep deprivation. I see other horses casually eating in said horse's vicinity, not "standing guard" per se. My horses *often* sleep for longer than 3 hours (in response to the Cloud Foundation article). If they're running around in mud, they will probably be that much more tired And yes, they will even lie in mud. Cody, my (deceased) paint, would SEEK OUT the manure piles to lie in them. Even when all else was dry and mud free. Drove me nuts, but he liked it so who was I to complain. Probably had something to do with the warmth the manure emitted. Not the end of the world.

    Emaciated horse: do we know the full story? Why it is thin, how it became thin, or what BLM management are doing to correct the situation, within their powers?

    Buckskin - would be nice if he had stitches but this is a wild horse. Spray some disinfectant on it and it will heal just fine. Ask me how I know (yes, with gaping injuries such as on the Buckskin - could not stitch and you cannot even tell the wound ever existed after it healed).

    I saw a lame bay... but again, we only see one half of the story.

    (from the CF article) Horses moved with the help of a bulldozer is cruel handling?? Is moving horses with a quad regarded the same?

    Anyways, I really put very little stock in the video. We see very little of the actual entire story. The article on the Cloud Foundation website had a few concerning points, but even then, we are only getting half the story. I don't think the BLM is infallible and it is possible it might not be managing some of their horses correctly, however I would respect a report by a panel of vets much more than I would a suspect video by one person likely trying to stir up trouble. I would also better respect a video that filmed the entire facilities without prejudice or comment, over a period of several weeks or months.
    Last edited by naturalequus; Apr. 12, 2011 at 04:48 AM. Reason: brilliant spelling mistakes
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  8. #8
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    Jan. 24, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturalequus View Post
    Emaciated horse: do we know the full story? Why it is thin, how it became thin, or what BLM management are doing to correct the situation, within their powers?

    Buckskin - would be nice if he had stitches but this is a wild horse. Spray some disinfectant on it and it will heal just fine. Ask me how I know (yes, with gaping injuries such as on the Buckskin - could not stitch and you cannot even tell the wound ever existed after it healed).

    As someone else stated - the emaciated horse is more than likely not in the pens (too much vegitation in the picture). My guess would be it is a rescue picture of a horse that was not a mustang found starving in someone yard and was placed here for shock value.

    As to the injury on the buckskin - Where the cut is on the shoulder it would most likely not hold stitches (too much movement) so stitching was probably not an option for that reason alone. If this horse had been stitched I would expect it to have to be examined (and I mean up close and personal - touched to check for swelling , heat, sign of infection) at least every other day if not daily (preferable) and with wild horses that is not really possible, they are wild and have to be put into to a chute and/or tranq'ed to get that up close and perrsonal with them. Tranqing this horse every day or even every other day IMO would do more damage than the wound is doing. It has obviousley been looked at and sprayed with some type of antiseptic. Sealing this woulnd would of done more harm than good IMO.



  9. #9
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    ...that was my point pupakin Beverley brought up the prospect that the filly in question likely is not even in the pens the video'er claims the filly to be in. There are a lot of such factors not considered in the video or article.

    We don't know the full story on the thin horse (the only apparently thin one in the video, I add).

    As for the buckskin, I have actually had a horse stitched in that exact same area and the stitches held just fine. That said, this is a feral horse and I've also seen such injuries heal just fine without stitches. In such a situation, I would also opt for leaving the wound open, with antiseptic spray.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  10. #10
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    Oct. 1, 2005
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    I've also had a horse kicked in that spot- by a horse he'd been pastured with for years. And yes it healed nicely. But as has been noted, these are feral horses not accustomed to handling so you do what you can. Clearly that cut was not infected and was being treated.

    It occurred to me that this is a case where Google Maps and/or Google Earth is your friend. Go to either one, image is the same, type in Butterfield Canyon, Utah, go west on the road the cursor ends up on and you will perceive the BLM facility. Big mostly bare rectangular area. Zoom on in and you will see horses in the pens. Likely a summertime shot. You can judge for yourself whether it looks like manure laden pens, or whether you think the pens are overcrowded, for example.



  11. #11
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    May. 17, 2003
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    Welcome to the Utah High Desert.

    We have had one of the wettest winters here in about 20 years--which means many feet of snow. Just about every horse I know is in not very sanitary mud at the moment for at least part of the day unless they live in a stall--unless they are still standing on snow and ice like mine are... I just know what's coming in the next month. Urgh.



  12. #12
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    True. Snowpack is over 120% of average in many places, we could have water running down State Street in Salt Lake as in 1983 depending on how the weather goes.

    Had to dig out a ditch yesterday at the barn, since MY horse was standing in water. Irrigation company turned the water on (a few days early) while BO was away from the barn-- having left open some valves she was in the process of repairing.



  13. #13
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    The frame of the "emactiated" horse, in addition to obviously not being in the same pens as the other shots, is also compressed, which makes the subject look narrower, plus the image is cropped, exagerating the narrowness.

    The horse "defending" the other is actually defending the food. The 'boss mare' in my horse's turnout group routinely runs the others off hay even when other piles (which they go eat instead) are availble to her. Because she's boss mare and does that sort of thing.

    The horse lying down doesn't appear to be in distress, and they're CERTAINLY not underweight (if anything most in the big pen look fat.) And again the other horse isn't defending it, they're just running someone else off the food.

    The one with the kick has been sprayed, but short of running it into a crush chute so it could be tranquilized and stitched, what can you do? More so on the horse who seems to be off. As for the mud, if it's clay, yeah, it's probably sticky, but where else are you going to put them? If it's sand or loam, it's probably wet, but not horribly bad.

    Most of the horses are well-fed to the point of being fat, and seem inquisitive and alert.

    The mama and baby burro are adorable and I want one. (If only I had a place to put it.)



  14. #14
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    Jan. 8, 2006
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    Guess what, I have mud too, lots of it!
    the video annoyed me, more then tugged at my heartstrings.. because..
    The picture of the baby donkey?/mule, the ground is hard and dry, - so obviously IF it was filmed in the same spot, they chose to only film the muddy sections yeah?
    then I'm betting those paddocks are like my sacrifice ones this time of year, mud galore near feeding stations, and dry elsewhere.

    the emaciated one, was also very obviously in a different pen. different ground, different vegation.

    and the comment at the end put me over the edge.

    after being captured and incarcerated? They lose what they value most 'their freedom' .

    Really? you expect actual horsepeople to fall for that ?
    Id give the entire vid more credence if it had showed the good and the bad, not just the bad..but then it wouldn't be as effective on the bleeding heart segment I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.



  15. #15
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    Jun. 1, 2007
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Agreeing with the masses here. Ever spend spring time in the Midwest. M U D everywhere!

    The horses in this video looked well fed and content. I hate the fact that our Mustang population is as high as it is and we have to take so many out of their natural habitat as much as the next person --- but preying on the heart strings and associating it with incarceration? HA! If these horses were left in the wild with the population not managed, many would starve and see a much worse fate than they currently have. It sucks that we have to keep so many in holding facilities ... but, I'm waiting for the "do gooders" to come up with a reasonable and feasible herd/population management plan to prevent holding facilities altogether.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chance2jump View Post
    It sucks that we have to keep so many in holding facilities ... but, I'm waiting for the "do gooders" to come up with a reasonable and feasible herd/population management plan to prevent holding facilities altogether.

    I'm waiting for all those "do gooders" that are so concerned about the conditions the mustangs are kept in or rounded up with or whatever to step up to the plate and actually adopt one. It would take 27,000 of these people out of a national population of over 300,000,000 people and the mustangs wouldn't BE in holding facilities....but I guess it is more fun to bemoan the fate of horses kept in big pens with prime alfalfa hay and nothing to do as far as being trained or worked than it is to step up and take one home even at the huge price of $125. When they start putting their money where their mouths are I'll be more sympathetic.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  17. #17
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    But, coloredcowhorse, then the beautiful wild horsies wouldn't be running FREE!!! with their families. <end sarcasm mode>



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloredcowhorse View Post
    I'm waiting for all those "do gooders" that are so concerned about the conditions the mustangs are kept in or rounded up with or whatever to step up to the plate and actually adopt one. It would take 27,000 of these people out of a national population of over 300,000,000 people and the mustangs wouldn't BE in holding facilities....but I guess it is more fun to bemoan the fate of horses kept in big pens with prime alfalfa hay and nothing to do as far as being trained or worked than it is to step up and take one home even at the huge price of $125. When they start putting their money where their mouths are I'll be more sympathetic.
    +1



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    But, coloredcowhorse, then the beautiful wild horsies wouldn't be running FREE!!! with their families. <end sarcasm mode>
    Or raiding MY haystacks or running my fencelines trying to pick fights with my boys or steal one of the girls....chased off two this last weekend...one cute little bay roan stallion intent on trying to pick a fight.... chased him down to a neighbors place...and one dark chestnut that just seemed more interested in the hay.....took the hay for the boys out into their field so they weren't eating along the fenceline and he finally gave up and left....found manure and fresh hoofprints around the hay stack the next morning so suspect he was back during the night.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



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