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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
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    1,218

    Default Tell Me About Vienna Reins

    I've seen vienna reins mentioned a few times in discussions here, but I haven't heard much about them, nor have I seen them used. It is my understanding that they are a training tool used prominently in Europe and just started leaking over here to North America recently.

    I've read a bit online, but I would love to hear personal experiences/opinions. What do you like or dislike about them? How do you compare them to side reins? To a chambon?

    (For reference, I have a 3yo WB mare whom I rode for the first time today. Her summer is going to consist of very light riding (both due to her age and my work constraints), and hopefully hacking as much as possible.

    She's been lunged a few times and has picked it up very quickly. I have never been huge on lunging for training, but find sometimes it's easiest for them to learn themselves vs from a rider. I have no concerns with trying to establish a frame/head set, but wouldn't be opposed to using a tool to help her learn to balance properly and develop the muscles she'll need for undersaddle work.

    I also have no intention of lunging her all the time, but wouldn't necessarily be opposed to sticking her on the lunge for 15 minutes before a ride once or week or something like that.)


    TIA.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
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    12,661

    Default

    I dunno about recent--mine are at least 15 years old. I like them because they seem to let the horse figure out on his own where he's most comfortable vis-a-vis his head carriage.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
    Location
    The Great, uh, Green (?!?!) North!
    Posts
    3,798

    Default

    I use them and LOVE them. It's also good if you have a horse that likes to lean and dump on their forehand... there's nothing to lean on. Also great for keeping a horse from locking up over their back.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    Do you both use them with a surcingle, or have you found an alternative way to just use them with your saddle?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2000
    Posts
    8,950

    Default

    I use ours with a saddle or a surcingle. For the saddle - it loops on the girth, then through the bit on each side, and back to the girth low.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    So, you use the first method described on this website? They explain it that the first method is more beneficial, which kind of makes sense.

    http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/h...nna_reins.html



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2009
    Location
    Lower Saxony, Germany
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Love them too.....Best for longing

    For young horses I put them under the Bell like draw reins, then through the bit rings back to saddel or surcingle really deep as i would put side reins. The younger Horse learns to go deep with the neck and i try to keep it active in the behind so it goes relaxed and can build up some muscels and find balance.

    Older ones i put the reins like side reins and then up to the surcingle in the rings so i can get it in a frame as i would do while riding.
    For this the horse must be correct on the longe (contact, acceptation of aids).....

    The Principles of riding book 4 or 5 i think is all about longing.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2003
    Location
    Woodland, Ca
    Posts
    6,206

    Default

    I don't think they have come here recently. I remember seeing them in the mid-eighties... I think that, like any training device, if you don't know how to use it and don't have a trainer that can teach you, you can probably do more damage than good trying to figure it out on your own.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    Thanks for the input so far. They sound like a nice alternative to side reins.

    fourmares, I apologize if I am incorrect about when they've become popular over here. I had never seen them myself and was just quoting another COTHer who said they were a recently used training tool. However, I am quite familiar with lunging, and using tools like side reins on both young/green and experienced horses, so I wouldn't exactly say I'm at high risk of harming my mare.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2007
    Location
    Somewhere between Here and There
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    1,892

    Default

    I use them to lunge on occasion. I usually borrow them from a friend who is the one that introduced me to the idea. She is from Germany and has used them for years, I used to just use side-reins.

    I have only used them a handful of times, but have noticed a huge difference. Lease Mare is green, and has a tendency to lock her neck/jaw and be heavy on the forehand. These have helped her to find her own balance, especially at the canter.

    The downside is that they (at least the pair friend has which is the same as that advertised in many catalogs) don't have anywhere to be attached when not in use. When I lunge in side reins I would lunge with them clipped on themselves for a few minutes to let the horse loosen up, then attach them to the bit. With these, I have to lunge for a few minutes, stop and add/adjust the Vienna Reins, and then go back to work. It's not big deal, but it would be nice if they were easier to deal with.

    The pair I use is the 2nd pair shown on the link. They almost look like a martingale/breast collar strap between the legs. I'd love to try the 1st pair shown but can't find them like that anywhere.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2009
    Location
    Osteen, FL
    Posts
    1,646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    I dunno about recent--mine are at least 15 years old. I like them because they seem to let the horse figure out on his own where he's most comfortable vis-a-vis his head carriage.
    This. I prefer thse to side reins. I find that in side reins the natural movement of the horse's head causes the side reins to pull side to side. I also try to use attachments that don't "force" head carrier, but rather reward it, if that makes any sense.
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Location
    Southern Pines, N.C.
    Posts
    11,537

    Default

    I use a Pessoa rig with the side ropes that come from around the horse's butt, through a low ring on the surcingle, through the ring at the bit and back to a higher ring on the surcingle.

    I first did this about 15 years ago.

    Isn't this the same thing as the Vienna reins, except that it has the added advantage of keeping the hind end involved?
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2002
    Posts
    1,015

    Default

    I had a pair back in the early 70's that I used on a few horses and they worked very well especially with those few that did not work well in side reins.

    Back then they were called lauffer reins and mine were made in germany and brought back to the states. I have searched high and low for those darned things and I have no idea whatever became of them. But they do work well as long as the horse is asked to step up to them and not allowed to drift behind them.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2007
    Posts
    2,731

    Default

    They are about $60.00 at Dover. I made my own with a little hardware and some shock cord. I like them. I think it only cost me about $15.00 to make my own. Makes green OTTB horsey girl figure out how to carry herself I have also been ground driving her a bit as well.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukluk View Post
    They are about $60.00 at Dover. I made my own with a little hardware and some shock cord. I like them. I think it only cost me about $15.00 to make my own. Makes green OTTB horsey girl figure out how to carry herself I have also been ground driving her a bit as well.
    How did you do this? I have a big (17.1hh) TB mare who is very, very long and my Vienna's don't fit her. I can get them on very tightly, but I absolutely do not want to start her like that, especially with her "you can't force me to do nothin'!" personality. I was thinking of trying to create some kind of extension so how, maybe loops around the girth which I then loop the reins through... But, I think my best option may be to make my own now that you brought it up! It is an ingenious idea, I never would have thought of that!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,800

    Default I made mine from rope & snaps (home depot)

    I homemade mine too. My dressage instructor told me how. Just bought some rope (a certain kind/width...it's soft and thin) and snaps from Home Depot.

    Used electric tape to secure the snap ends. (thread rope through snap-end, and fold back onto itself by say 3 inches. WRAP the eletric tape around, to secure)

    Cost less than $10 bucks.

    You just have have a good eye to adjust it properly, because I literally tie it on. (snap the ends onto the bottom of the girth, through the bit and over to the d-rings)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reagan View Post
    How did you do this? I have a big (17.1hh) TB mare who is very, very long and my Vienna's don't fit her. I can get them on very tightly, but I absolutely do not want to start her like that, especially with her "you can't force me to do nothin'!" personality. I was thinking of trying to create some kind of extension so how, maybe loops around the girth which I then loop the reins through... But, I think my best option may be to make my own now that you brought it up! It is an ingenious idea, I never would have thought of that!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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    www.elainehickman.com
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
    Location
    Full time in Delhi, NY!
    Posts
    6,397

    Default

    I've made them out of leather, and I've made them out of bungee cord with hardware clamps and snaps. I wouldn't trust electrical tape with the stress a horse can put on them.

    You can make them more or less adjustable depending on how clever you are. With the leather ones, as I recall, I had those rocker buckles (with the spike in the middle) to allow for adjustments. With the bungee ones I simply tied them in knots away from the bit area.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2005
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    http://www.ultimatedressage.com/foru...p?f=1&t=202647

    Personally I feel VR (which go through the legs) act too much like draw reins and don't allow enough lateral flexibility. It can work on some horses but also leads to BTV quite easily.

    I personally prefer the "triangle/balance/Lauffer" rein that doesn't go through the leg but rather attaches in a V (top ring surgingle-bit-bottom ring surgingle SAME SIDE).

    The balance reins allow the horse to stretch but also don't restirct so much. I found mine for 20 bucks at Schneiders. It also seems much safer as horses are known to get a leg through Vienna and draw reins.

    I also use standard side reins with elastic. It really depends on the horse and where they are at with their work and if they naturally go above or below the bit.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    11,146

    Default

    Meh, I have a pair of reins I can use as drawreins, vienna reins through the girth, or vienna reins with a fancy name to the sides. Same thing with varying degrees of leverage.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fancy That View Post
    I homemade mine too. My dressage instructor told me how. Just bought some rope (a certain kind/width...it's soft and thin) and snaps from Home Depot.

    Used electric tape to secure the snap ends. (thread rope through snap-end, and fold back onto itself by say 3 inches. WRAP the eletric tape around, to secure)

    Cost less than $10 bucks.

    You just have have a good eye to adjust it properly, because I literally tie it on. (snap the ends onto the bottom of the girth, through the bit and over to the d-rings)
    So you can't adjust them? Or you adjust them by tying them at different lengths to the dee's? I wonder if it would be a pain to tie on snaps at different lengths and leave them there. I may be making a trip to Home Depot soon! Thank you for the advice!

    Sorry OP for hijacking!



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