Nobody knows the answer to your first question, right now typical growth pattern would be 3-5 mm a day it could be perfect timing it could be she does not make any progress or she could ovulate Monday. Edema pattern would help determine the answer. Counter to counter is actually cheaper right now than Fedex in some cases, about $100. Just to get it to and from the airport may be more expensive. Depending on the route it may have to leave pretty early to make it For that same reason I will be at the airport at 5 am tomorrow
You usually have a much better chance the other way around, i.e. insemminating before ovulation and then if she ovulates a little later than expected, the sperm will still be viable when the mare gets around to ovulating - within some limits of course. And also, of course, this is for fresh, cooled semen only. With frozen, your best bet is to insemminate within 6 hours (preferably less) post ovulation.
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Agree w/ everyone else - breeding before ovulation with fresh is the way to go, and what we always try to do. Being a little early and use HCG to encourage ovulation has worked well for us. Most in foal first try every year.
Like Edgar said, I'd rather know the edema status and follicle softnes vs. the follicle size. They can be in standing heat for 4-5 days, some longer, some shorter (we have a mare that starts teasing strongly very early on and does it forever, and then another that once she is breaking down you'd better have semen in hand).
For example last week we had 3 mares on P&E to breed together to try and save on the vet fees since we live far out. Gave Lutalyse on Thursday and vet checked them Sunday night, each one had about a 30mm and the start of some edema. Two of them were teasing, one was not. Due to what we know about each one from several years of records, and one of the stallions' collection schedules (MWF) we ordered Monday for two of them, which we knew would be a little early but probably not THAT early in truth (and Wed would be way too late). On Tuesday when the shipment arrived one had a 43 and one had a 47 and raging edema. We bred both and gave HCG. Next day for second dose, edema had waned significantly and they were now 45 and 49 respectively and soft/misshapen. So, we're hoping we had good timing on those. If we hadn't given HCG they probably would have hung on another day or two even, so you are probably ok but will be close. The third we waited on because she was not teasing, but began on Monday, so we ordered Tues for Wed delivery. Bred her Wed with a 44 and wagon wheel edema, HCG, then Thurs edema was gone and 48mm follicle soft and mushy, cervix closing down. So, it just depends on the mare of course... They say in cooler weather they go slower, but it was abnormally cold here last week and that did not slow them down!
We've bred mares after ovulation (not on purpose tho! haha) and had reasonably good luck but it's probably just that. LOL Much less success than breeding before, even well before (2-3 days when mare hung on) and still success with good semen. You could counter to counter to be safe but just weight the extra cost with how much you want to catch her this time. If you could check her first thing this morning and see where she is that would help - if she has a big squishy follicle and little edema I would fly it, if still lots of edema and follicle not as soft you might be ok to Fedex.
Last edited by Signature; Apr. 4, 2011 at 09:23 AM.
I agree, you are much better off breeding a little on the early side rather than too late.
Due to weekends, horseshows, miscommunications, etc, we bred 3 times post ovulation last year and only 1 got pregnancy.
We bred a little early three times (ie bred twice before ovulation instead of once before and once after as my vet prefers) and got 3 pregnancies.
Counter to counter can be a PITA though. I've done it twice and both times it was a disaster (ie delayed flights, picking up semen at 3AM and semen getting put on the wrong flight at a layover and again ending up at the airport at about 11PM). I'm lucky my vet was willing to get up in the middle of the night and breed the mares. Both times it was worth it though because my mares got pregnant.
Actually we took to heart something Barb (sj66 here) said last year I think. She said she would start breeding her mares on 3rd day of standing heat, and they had good success with that even without ultrasounding. So, this year we paid attention and we happened to breed all 3 mares on the 3rd and 4th days of standing heat, and we will see how that works out. So let us know what happens!
From the sound of it my gut says you will be ok but close, and I would put it in as soon as you have the container! Really pay attention to the edema and the follicle softness/shape. Good luck!!!
well, the magic happens today at 10:30 am!! I noticed that yesterday my other mare was also in heat. So I am hoping today is the perfect day for breeding. I will be at work waiting for the vet to call!!!
Last year, my GOV mare waited and waited for her Apiro swimmers and it was a total and utter mess to get them there on time! The vet was planning on breeding her Friday morning... Mare held on to that gigantic follicle on foal heat until Sunday for a frozen breeding. Thank GOODNESS because the semen finally got to the mare on Saturday!
Well it was supposed to be fresh... Then the USDA messed that one up, and thankfully, there was already some frozen in Canada, but by the time I learned about the USDA debacle, and of the deadlines for shipping frozen on time... I was positive I was missing the cycle. Nope, sometimes they really want their date too.
No, don't order semen again! In fact, we rarely (and I mean rarely) use the second dose.
No answer on "when" they ovulate; each mare is different, and it can differ cycle to cycle and can also depend upon the time of the year. She *should* respond to the ovulatory agent w/in 48 hours, but there are always a small percentage of mares who don't go by the book. As long as the numbers were adequate on the semen, you don't need to breed again IF she responds to the meds and ovulates w/in the timeframe mentioned above. Most semen will live that long, no problem. Breeding again the next day is only causing more inflammation and putting more fluid into the uterus that the mare has to clear.
That being said, I know that it is standard operating procedure for a lot of mares to go ahead and use that second dose the next day, so....the above is just my personal preference and experience.
I would not sweat ordering another shipment IF the stallion had good numbers (motility & concentration) when you bred on a 36 and she got either HcG or Deslorelin (some sort of ov. stimulant).
But that is JMO and worth what you pay for it!
The best incubator for sperm is in the mare, so you've got that covered! And the 2mm per day is pretty normal - or so I understand from what I've been told by our vet. We would follow up with Oxytocin on an injection schedule - but again - that's just what we do.
last time we bred her she was on a 36 mm and we gave her the shot and then ordered the semen. She was still at 36 mm when we bred her and she didn't catch. But, it was mid march and I think she was in a transitional heat. She didn't act in heat at all on a 36 and this time she has been acting crazy for 3 days!
So I am thinking that maybe the vet wants to look at her again tomorrow and also use the second dose just in case this dang 36 mm follicle likes to stick around for a day.
Sperm motility is good, so that shouldn't be an issue. First time the vet used it all and didn't breed her again the next day, but she didn't get pregnant either.