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  1. #1
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    Interesting remarks regarding the course that looked a bit spooky from the Charles Mann provided photos!

    NZ Herald 8/17/04: "Course not Olympic standard, Nicholson says"

    Excerpt:

    But even that might not move them [the Kiwis]into medal contention in the cross-country on what he criticised as "not an Olympic standard course".

    "I am very disappointed in the course," veteran Nicholson told NZPA after his dressage score left him 52nd of 75 riders.

    Top riders would have little trouble avoiding time penalties for failing to complete the 5570m circuit in under nine minutes 46 seconds, he felt.

    "We came here expecting a very strong cross-country course and now we will be playing catch up until the end of the competition," he said.

    "The water jump is very difficult, it's very, very deep and up to standard, (so is) the coffin, but there are 35 jumps and that's about four or five of them."



  2. #2
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    Interesting remarks regarding the course that looked a bit spooky from the Charles Mann provided photos!

    NZ Herald 8/17/04: "Course not Olympic standard, Nicholson says"

    Excerpt:

    But even that might not move them [the Kiwis]into medal contention in the cross-country on what he criticised as "not an Olympic standard course".

    "I am very disappointed in the course," veteran Nicholson told NZPA after his dressage score left him 52nd of 75 riders.

    Top riders would have little trouble avoiding time penalties for failing to complete the 5570m circuit in under nine minutes 46 seconds, he felt.

    "We came here expecting a very strong cross-country course and now we will be playing catch up until the end of the competition," he said.

    "The water jump is very difficult, it's very, very deep and up to standard, (so is) the coffin, but there are 35 jumps and that's about four or five of them."



  3. #3
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    Aug. 10, 1999
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    That has also been the complaint from others - although, Wofford (in his diary) says the second half of the course may take its toll....

    We shall see...

    For the record, I am AGAINST the new format!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif

    (Alternate the Olympic Equestrian Events among the true four star courses in the world, then send the athletes to the Olympics to give demonstrations and have FUN! And receive their medals!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif Would save Olympic committees LOTS of MONEY!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif )
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  4. #4
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    I'll be honest, I dont think those photos looked scary, a few of them were quite small jumps.. Alot of the x-country jumps in higher level competition (like badminton) look alot more difficult
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Member of the 2BW Clique

    \"Nothing runs like a deere\"



  5. #5
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    Why are you against the new format? Something had to be done to get eventing out of the massive public critizism it has been exposed to over the past few years. I think anything that takes the wind out of animals rights fanatists is useful for the sport. Up until now I have only seen one horse and rider fall (an Austrian pair) during the course. I don't think that's a bad thing really. Many riders are getting penalties for not being in time. I'd much rather have that than those ugly pictures that have been plastered all across the media making eventing as a whole look bad while it should be considered the crown of equestrian sports.



  6. #6
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    Ah, but the new format HELPED you Germans... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif this course was NOT up to par! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif (Actually, there were three more falls - Ingred Klimke between two fences - horse slipped, not counted - Andrews Hoy & Nicholson at the narrow end of a combination... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif )

    Three Day is about galloping and jumping and NOT about Dressage and Show Jumping... This type of course actually hinders the best in the world, whose horses are simply over-fit and over keen to do their job - gallop and jump ad infinitum!

    I agree with you about PETA etc, but hate to see that battle won at the cost of a wonderful sport - I think we are going to still have accidents - and many of this historically HAVE been below the **** level. I just don't believe the sport should be, what I consider, dumbed down in the name of PR. (In many ways, it already has been - when compared to the earlier days of eventing, our courses are more technical, but smaller and safer!)
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  7. #7
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    Three day eventing is NOT about just about galloping and jumping. Three days (OK, sometimes four), three disciplines.

    I agree with Kareen that something had to be done. We risked losing eventing as an Olympic discipline because of the injuries to horse and rider and the huge cost of building facilities. Two compromises were reached: safer x-country and the elimination of steeplechase and road-and-track.

    Many Irish riders and trainers have for too long been willing to disregard dressage. An unintended consequence of this change in format may be that Irish breeders, riders, and trainers will begin to put more emphasis on movement, rideability, and basic dressage training.



  8. #8
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    Interesting topic, and I totally agree Weatherford. Sure eventing includes Dressage and cross country, but isnt it about the overal fitness and conditioning and versatiliity of the horse.. Road and tracks steeple chase.. It is all part of the package. This is like me going to a horse trial, ok maybe not fences this size, and for the record, I wasnt freaked out by them like when looking at Badminton or Burgley. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  9. #9
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    I don't mean this is a catty manner, but it seems to me that Andrew Nicholson should have reserved his comments about the difficulty of the course until after he had ridden it. Seems it caused him a few little problems http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif

    Really, in general, I think any discussions about the level of difficulty should be reserved for after. Focus on getting through the competition, then look at the results to see if the course rode easier or harder than anticipated. Frankly, our sport doesn't need riders in the media bashing the course as sub-par, esp. before the've posted double clears.



  10. #10
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    don't worry - those comments always bite you in the butt.

    I've got a tape of Mark Todd on a coursewalk at Badminton saying "I think the course designer has been rather kind to us here" at a coffin - at which he had problems on both of his horses!
    Laura



  11. #11
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    Well. I'm counting only 16 double clears out of 75 rides X-C. It doesn't seem like it was that easy after all.

    All I can say is WOW! Where did that French team come from?

    SCFarm
    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

    www.southern-cross-farm.com



  12. #12
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    Nope... agree with Weatherford. Always have and always will. A three-day event without steeplechase and roads and tracks is a horse trial NOT a three-day event. I dont' give a rat's butt about PETA. They can kiss my white hiney. I'd hate to see 3-day out of the Olympics, but sorry folks... with the change in format, it essentially already is. Thank you Rolex, Badminton and Burghley for maintaining the sport of 3-day Eventing!
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  13. #13
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    Not to mention that the changes made really had nothing to do with making the sport safer. It had to do with politics and money. There was absolutly zero info about how a 4 star without the endurance phases would affect the horses...for all we know it makes it more dangerous. Riding a horse around course that is fighting and not listening because he hasn't been warmed up properly sounds a little dangerous to me. I guess time will tell...



  14. #14
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    I agree with Weatherford and BarnBrat. Changing the format was NOT about safety! It was political and it was about money. I like the old format!
    I don't have Bravo, so I was on the phone with my friend this morning who is Tivo-ing it for me, and I could hear it on in the background(the only way I could get my fix!), and a few times I heard them say that the riders had a lot of horse left after the cross country. They are fit enough and used to doing a lot more!
    Grab mane and kick on!



  15. #15
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    Maybe it would have been a good idea to not skip the steeple chase but to have it after the x-country... That way there would still be more emphasis on canter-capacity and fitness of equine and human athletes yet less risk for a pair not 'up to the standard' to entirely lose it just during the x-country which for non-horsey folks seems to be the most threatening and critical part of eventing...
    One may think about PETA et.al. what one prefers but we can't pretend we are alone on earth and if the majority of people wants some edges to be taken out of eventing I don't think it's going to be the end of the world. I guess losing the olympic status would have been a way more painful thing to happen http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif
    Plus really with the results looking the way they do right now it doesn't seem as if the course was all that easy. It's all nice and fair if NZ thinks those courses aren't up to the standard but what about those 'exotic' eventing nations such as Czech, Brazil etc. I personally think it's only healthy to finally see some of their riders actually finish an x-country without injuries and a 60 penalties http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    That was indeed superlucky for Ingrid her old boy slipped outside the fence area. *phew*. I think NZ needs to calm down and think about it after it's all over. Just my two cts.



  16. #16
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    Please... somebody tell me this new format only applies to the olympics and NOT WEG, and we are only subjected to this every 4 years?

    I agree - the format change had a whole lot more to do with politics and power, and not a lot else. But "safety" made nice window dressing on the topic...

    Kareen, I'm all for more people and countries successfully competing in equestrian sports, but I think we can all agree the idea is for competitors to rise TO the occassion, not the occassion to fall to less accomplished horses and riders. I mean I could have a clear round if we made them small enough, but that's what the lower levels are all about, right? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  17. #17
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    Kareen keeps bringing up PETA...It is my understanding from my international sources that PETA was secondary and if they are even at the table they only came after the German show jumpers and breeders started the whole hoopla. (Hoopla which if comes to fruition could prove beneficial to the same said breeders!)

    Personally, I think the whole PETA threat is completely overblown and more of a fabrication by the individuals who would like to see the sport changed for their own reasons.



  18. #18
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    I think Weatherford and tle said it best, couldn't agree more. What is a 3-day without roads and tracks and steeplechase? The sport would have been better off being out of the Olympics rather than mutilate the format as they did for Athens. And yes, WEG at Aachen is also going to be this format from what I have read.



  19. #19
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    I think all of the horse events at the Olympics are on shaky ground a lot. they are very ecpensive to host and then get lots of criticism. I think eventing should be safer and not a dare devil sport. As noted by the commentators this morning. Many of these people from small countries have not trained up to the highest level and the competiion should be for them too, maybe they can't win or place but they shouldn't die to have an Olympic experience. Should everyone be required to travel all of the world for the 4 years in between the games to be safe? Then it will end up like Dresssage; only the super rich can participate (or those that are patroned by the super rich http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif) .



  20. #20
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    I'm with DMK, Weatherford and BarnBrat. This isn't 3 day eventing, its some hastily stuck together hodgepodge. I don't think the criers had too much to do with it, I think that money was the influence factor.

    Frankly, I would rather see the sport out of the Olympics than to see it bastardized. Its going to be interesting to see the results after the show jumping, which, I thought, was supposed to be a check to see that the horse still had something left after the gruelling test the day before. What is going to happen if these hot, fit athletes have too much left?
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



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