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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    That's the part that gets me. Someone is preggers and immediately horse/etc has to go. Why?? I still rode while preggers and could still feed and call the shoer when } couldn't ride. The horses held down the pasture while I had whichever kid and life went on as usual. Gave lessons and still bought and sold horses. Never stopped me, might have slowed me down but I never quit on horses or dogs.
    Because sometimes there is more to the story. Like the person in question is (suddenly) a single mom. Or the horse is young and owner will lack the time; allowing the horse to sit would not be beneficial to the horse. Horses are expensive, kids are too. If I'd have had a kid a certain points in my life earlier (and it happens, even when you are on the pill/have an IUD/use condoms/etc), the horses would have had to go. Each person's situation, abilities, etc are unique.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  2. #22
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    Dec. 23, 2003
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    You never know the circumstances of some of those people. My older sister had a stroke a month ago. I found her on the floor of her house, where she had been lying for 3 days. She has a dog and a cat who are suddenly homeless. She survived, but from the way it looks, she may never be able to go home again.

    My husband and I live in the city in a smallish house and already have 2 cats, a parrot and a diabetic dog who is not extraordinarily hard to care for, but must be fed and have insulin on a schedule. We really can't afford nor do we have room for another animal, but my nephew and his wife want to put the cat on Craigslist, so we may try to fit the poor kitty in here.

    My 89 year old father is taking care of the dog for now, but his health is not all that great. We are trying to take responsibility for animals that are not ours, but it is hard, now that somebody has to visit and try to advocate for my sister's health on pretty much a daily basis. (That's me, because my nephew and other siblings live 4 hours away.)

    I thought having to euth my 25 y.o. horse was sad until the next day, when I found my sister. Really, there are plenty of asshats in the world, but most people are just trying to make it through. I have been judgmental in the past, but have found out how quickly normal life can go haywire.



  3. #23
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by cu.at.x View Post
    our local kill buyer is actually a fairly decent horseman

    You lost all credibility with me with that oxymoronic statement.

    Re: economic circumstances, I know. I haven't had a steady job in one year. Every month is a struggle to pay rent. But not one single animal has suffered because of me. I'd do whatever it took me to rehome a horse in my possession, or else I don't know how I could live with myself.
    But sometimes people have done all they can. It is not black and white and just because you have been lucky thus far does not mean your life could not take a dramatic and unexpected turn.

    And whether you like it or not, the local kill buyer refereed to is a person in business to sell horses and some of them are not die hard scum as you idealistically believe. Maybe most of them are but not all of them.



  4. #24
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    Oct. 27, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by cu.at.x View Post
    You lost all credibility with me with that oxymoronic statement.

    Re: economic circumstances, I know. I haven't had a steady job in one year. Every month is a struggle to pay rent. But not one single animal has suffered because of me. I'd do whatever it took me to rehome a horse in my possession, or else I don't know how I could live with myself.
    And you, my dear, have a very closed mind if you think that a kill buyer can't be a good judge of horseflesh and have the smarts to handle them well AND know that he can make more profit by picking them up cheap at auctions and selling to private buyers rather than for meat.

    Congrats on having a job for the last year.....my county of about 6500 people has more than 14% unemployment with the largest employer not even being in business for the last 2 years....ie....NO JOBS for about 1000 people....and most of the rest of the jobs are part time and minimum wage.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  5. #25
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    Jul. 24, 2008
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    Life's hard to take when you are so much better than everyone!!



  6. #26
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    Jul. 24, 2008
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    To Maxiford: Sorry to hear about your sister. Best wishes for her. Thank you for sharing your story which is a perfect example of real life going wrong.



  7. #27
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    Dec. 16, 2007
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloredcowhorse View Post
    And you, my dear, have a very closed mind if you think that a kill buyer can't be a good judge of horseflesh and have the smarts to handle them well AND know that he can make more profit by picking them up cheap at auctions and selling to private buyers rather than for meat.
    I didn't say he wasn't a good businessman. I disagree with your statement that he is a "decent horseman." How can someone who profits off of horse slaughter be considered a "horseman" (or woman?)

    Congrats on having a job for the last year....
    I said I have not had a job for a year. Read. For. Comprehension. I guess your opinion that I am out of touch with the economic situation in this country is not supported by the facts about me.
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



  8. #28
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    Dec. 16, 2007
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    Life's hard to take when you are so much better than everyone!!
    Yes, compassion for animals surely is a condescending trait to have.
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



  9. #29
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    cu.at.x, if you have not had a steady job for a year, you are simply purely lucky to not have had to give up your animals. I imagine you have some sort of support? And/or you keep your horse(s) at home? I consider my animals part of my family - I would sacrifice anything for them (and currently am sacrificing a lot for them, $1,000/month MIN in horse-related bills - from feed to board, etc - could really help elsewhere! Nvm the dog and other small animals). I acquired these animals in better times (and had no way of foreseeing the future - and take note I am very careful with my finances!), but circumstances changed and at several points, I was not even sure what was going to happen with my horses in particular. Lucky for me, out of sheer dumb luck, things have gone right *knock on wood!* and I have been able to survive and keep all my animals (while leasing out two of the horses, which is in their best interests anyways). Hopefully things continue to go well and within a few months I will be able to breathe easier, and by this time next year I've got a nice sum tucked away for emergency plus all debt paid off, but I am well aware that if something were to happen tomorrow, some of the horses would have to go. It often does not take much for one's luck to change.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  10. #30
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    Dec. 16, 2007
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    Ohio
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    I don't have a horse. Haven't for 5+ years. Can't even afford lessons right now, actually.
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



  11. #31
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    That makes things a lot easier. Like I said, sheer dumb luck sometimes. I hope you do not have to learn the hard way one day.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  12. #32
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    Jan. 31, 2010
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    Alberta
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    How can someone who profits off of horse slaughter be considered a "horseman" (or woman?)
    Same way someone who profits of cow slaughter can be called a cattleman.

    Not everyone thinks slaughter is the worst fate that can befall a horse.

    I think it takes a different mindset and a more practical/hard approach, but I have respect for the local kill buyer too. They do a (sadly) needed job, and try their best to do the best for the horses that come their way.

    Allowing horses loose into the desert is worse, or abondonning them at the auction...or leaving them so suffer and die of "natural causes" when they can't afford to get the vet out...

    Coloredcowhorse, does your area not have rendering plants to dispose of carcasses?

    Life can change suddenly and unexpectedly. When you have other people depending on you (like kids/elderly parents/spouse), sometimes the horses/pets are sacrificed. I hope to never be in that position, and I feel for those that are.

    I do agree it is sad that there are so many free/unwanted pets and horses, but I am glad there are more networks than ever to try to place these animals, and it is a shame when people are judged negatively for using these networks.



  13. #33
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    Dec. 16, 2007
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    Ohio
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    Ok, my definition of horseman is different. A horseman, to me, is someone who spends his life caring for horses. Caring for horses, in my opinion, does not include sending them on a long ride to a horrible death in Canada or Mexico.

    The biggest problem I have with horse slaughter, as with all large-scale slaughter, is the way the horses are (mis)treated prior to slaughter and the way they are killed. I don't consider myself a "cow lover", but I do not support their unnecessary suffering-I don't buy factory farmed beef-in the same way that as a horse lover, I don't support the practices of the horse slaughter industry. I simply don't understand how people can know what goes on (the information is readily available including USDA's own reports), condone it, and still call themselves "horse lovers".

    It's not enough to compare horse slaughter to horses being turned loose to starve to death. Both are horrible ends. Why aren't we looking at the cause of the problem-overbreeding-instead of debating how to dispose of all the unwanted horses?

    I would not personally have a problem with horses being killed for meat if the process were humane. I understand that not everyone shares my sentiments about horses; to many, they are livestock, and I wouldn't want anyone telling me I don't have a right to my steak. As passionate as I am, being anti-horse slaughter I'm just as passionate against factory farming, because they both cause animals to suffer unnecessarily.
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



  14. #34
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    Factory farmed beef Have you ever worked on a ranch and on a feedlot?

    Anyways, this is deserving of a spinoff thread if you really want to discuss slaughter. Consider continuing one of the many threads already out there though as opposed to starting a new (repetitive) one.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  15. #35
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    Dec. 16, 2007
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturalequus View Post
    Factory farmed beef Have you ever worked on a ranch and on a feedlot?
    What do you call it then? Feedlot beef? Doesn't change how horrible standing in 3 feet of manure and eating a completely unnatural and unsafe to humans diet is. (causes pathogenic bacteria to proliferate in the gut which ends up in the meat via slaughter)

    Anyways, this is deserving of a spinoff thread if you really want to discuss slaughter. Consider continuing one of the many threads already out there though as opposed to starting a new (repetitive) one.
    I did not start the slaughter discussion, someone else did (can't remember who now.) I really didn't want to get into it, since I know how bullheaded some people are about being for horse slaughter. I wonder if they actually worked in a horse slaughter plant, how long would they last?
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



  16. #36
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    Right. Well I was actually raised on a working cattle ranch (we even slaughtered some of our own cattle on our property), have experience working on a number of other ranches, have extensive cattle experience (working, feeding, showing, raising, training), have spent time working in feedlots, and have been in the slaughter plants (and have friends who have worked in them), so I beg your pardon if my opinion VASTLY differs from yours, due to EXPERIENCE. I actually find the term "factory farm" as it applies to ranches and feedlots, offensive; terms PETA and other such ill-informed, ill-educated, and extreme organisations have incorrectly pushed. I am not saying there is no room for improvement (ESPECIALLY for horses!), but to label feedlots and ranches "factory farms" and imply all cattle stand in 3 feet of muck (ever heard of foot rot?) and consume an unsafe diet, is an absolute fallacy. Anyways, I never asked who started the conversation about slaughter; spinoff away should you wish to continue.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  17. #37
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by cu.at.x View Post
    Ok, I concede that there may be circumstances where people have literally tried EVERYTHING but still can't find a place where they can take their pet/s. I just have a feeling that's not true for most of the people dumping their pets on CL and elsewhere. To me, a pet is like a family member-they're with me for life. Maybe because when I was a kid I always had a great love for my animals but my parents were, shall we say, not very responsible and I felt so helpless.

    I did not mention this in my first post but I am especially disturbed by people dumping their horses at auction. In that case, I do not care what your circumstance is. Most of us have had financial problems but we don't all run to the auction to get a couple hundred bucks out of a horse that will likely be brutally killed. If you can't afford to keep your horse and you can't sell or re-home it, the most humane thing to do is to put it down. I have heard people use the excuse that it costs $200-300 to euth a horse-okay then, a bullet to the head is still better than the alternative.

    FWIW many equine vets won't euth what they consider to be a healthy horse.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  18. #38
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    Oct. 27, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    Same way someone who profits of cow slaughter can be called a cattleman.

    Not everyone thinks slaughter is the worst fate that can befall a horse.

    I think it takes a different mindset and a more practical/hard approach, but I have respect for the local kill buyer too. They do a (sadly) needed job, and try their best to do the best for the horses that come their way.

    Allowing horses loose into the desert is worse, or abondonning them at the auction...or leaving them so suffer and die of "natural causes" when they can't afford to get the vet out...

    Coloredcowhorse, does your area not have rendering plants to dispose of carcasses?

    Life can change suddenly and unexpectedly. When you have other people depending on you (like kids/elderly parents/spouse), sometimes the horses/pets are sacrificed. I hope to never be in that position, and I feel for those that are.

    I do agree it is sad that there are so many free/unwanted pets and horses, but I am glad there are more networks than ever to try to place these animals, and it is a shame when people are judged negatively for using these networks.
    Thank you.
    Yes...we do see horses turned out in the desert here as people have the "Cloud" or "Spirit" view of the world that their horse will somehow happily survive on scrub growth (there is grass for maybe 6 weeks of the spring) and walking 20-30 miles daily to get to water and grazing and don't realize that if their domestic horse with his well cared for feet goes lame he'll be eaten alive by the coyotes....a lame horse is a dead horse out here.
    There is one rendering plant in the entire northern part of the state and they used to come out once a week (summer time this makes things really stinky)...with fuel prices going up it looks like this may no longer be available either....they are about 120 miles from me.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  19. #39
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    Oct. 27, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by cu.at.x View Post
    What do you call it then? Feedlot beef? Doesn't change how horrible standing in 3 feet of manure and eating a completely unnatural and unsafe to humans diet is. (causes pathogenic bacteria to proliferate in the gut which ends up in the meat via slaughter)
    Here we go....someone with no experience going on about how horrid things are.

    Cattle raised here and through most of the western US are on rangeland.....yep....areas that may take anywhere from 20-50 acres to support ONE cow and her calf....for much of their lives. The steers (castrated male cattle) are brought in and fed hay...usually (at least in every feed lot I've seen) very nice alfalfa. There's a feed lot here that handles up to 20,000 head of cattle at a time....the pens are about 1-2 acres each up to about 5 acres. The manure is scooped out with front end loaders every couple of days.....foot rot is just nasty and causes losses of weight/condition. The cattle are moved from hay to hay and grain as they approach finished condition.

    The biggest contamination of meat occurs in the cutting and packaging and the bacteria most often is e.coli....a bacteria common in the guts of all animals including humans.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  20. #40
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloredcowhorse View Post
    Here we go....someone with no experience going on about how horrid things are.

    Cattle raised here and through most of the western US are on rangeland.....yep....areas that may take anywhere from 20-50 acres to support ONE cow and her calf....for much of their lives. The steers (castrated male cattle) are brought in and fed hay...usually (at least in every feed lot I've seen) very nice alfalfa. There's a feed lot here that handles up to 20,000 head of cattle at a time....the pens are about 1-2 acres each up to about 5 acres. The manure is scooped out with front end loaders every couple of days.....foot rot is just nasty and causes losses of weight/condition. The cattle are moved from hay to hay and grain as they approach finished condition.

    The biggest contamination of meat occurs in the cutting and packaging and the bacteria most often is e.coli....a bacteria common in the guts of all animals including humans.

    LOL, don't confuse the issue with facts
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



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