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  1. #1
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    Default Western Dressage:

    Here it is, some kind of cross pollination, I think:

    http://americashorsedaily.com/western-dressage/

    Have just heard rumors, here is more on this, don't know where they are going with this, found it interesting.



  2. #2
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    If it encourages western riders to stop the cranky yanky spanky garbage and that gawd awful 4 beat canter, I'm all for it... but at the same time I take dressage very very seriously and find it insulting that the general public could potentially think "western dressage" is the same as classical or modern dressage.
    FWIW I've competed in WP years ago... i'm not just a DQ on a soap box.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    If it encourages western riders to stop the cranky yanky spanky garbage and that gawd awful 4 beat canter, I'm all for it... but at the same time I take dressage very very seriously and find it insulting that the general public could potentially think "western dressage" is the same as classical or modern dressage.
    FWIW I've competed in WP years ago... i'm not just a DQ on a soap box.
    Yikes, is that all that western is??? Furthermore, dressage cannot be applied within other disciplines or under different tack?? And here I thought dressage meant "training"

    I'm with ya on the WP thing, but not all western is WP. There's a heckuva lot of the "cranky yanky spanky garbage" anywhere, including in the dressage crowd.

    Imo it's a great idea, though much of us are already applying dressage concepts and training to western riding, and much of reining can be considered similar.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
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  4. #4
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    Dec. 19, 2009
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    Default

    The tests are published on the USEF website:

    http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/breedsd...sageTests.aspx

    curiously under the Morgan breed section.

    I first noticed this locally, when I was scoping out schooling shows. Thought it was something unique to the one barn hosting it until I found the tests were online!



  5. #5
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    Default

    Dressage just means training/schooling, as naturalequus said.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturalequus View Post
    Yikes, is that all that western is???
    I'm fully aware there is more than just WP. I will be the first (i'm sure not the last) to say I am a snotty brat elitist on the topic of dressage.

    Quote Originally Posted by naturalequus View Post
    Furthermore, dressage cannot be applied within other disciplines or under different tack??
    It absolutely can, and should for a horse to be worked with the horse's best interest in mind, but I don't call that dressage, it's using some dressage technique in a different discipline.
    It's just my outlook, and I'm okay with it.. I guess you could say I see more meaning to the term dressage than just training, and to call any integration outside of it's pure form the same as the Duke of Newcastle's work I think is disrespectful.
    I kind of see it the same as a breeder who has given their life to producing a top Arabian, or a phenomenal poodle or something, and then someone decides it's a great idea to cross it with another breed and call it "just as good." To that Arabian or poodle person, it's not. it disgusts them, and demeans their life's work.
    Last edited by Petstorejunkie; Mar. 15, 2011 at 08:30 PM. Reason: typo
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    1. I will be the first (i'm sure not the last) to say I am a snotty brat elitist on the topic of dressage. 2. I guess you could say I see more meaning to the term dressage than just training, and to call any integration outside of it's pure form the same as the Duke of Newcastle's work I think is disrespectful.
    3....then someone decides it's a great idea to cross it with another breed and call it "just as good." To that Arabian or poodle person, it's not. it disgusts them, and demeans their life's work.
    1. Thou hast said.

    2. No. No disrespect of good horsemanship intended. The Duke would have cared which tack one uses?

    3. I doubt that breeders of purebreds feel that their life's work is demeaned by cross-breeders, as long as purebreds remain in the picture.



  8. #8
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    Whew! Think I'm going to sit on the sidelines for this one!

    Guess this man should be scorned for crossing that "poodle".

    http://www.cowboydressage.com/weg.html
    "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"



  9. #9
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    Hm, working trot/canter are dressage terms, are they not? Do they have any meaning to a western rider? If not just calling them working jog/lope isn't going to help. And sounds kind of silly!
    By the way, I love the idea of "reining in" some western riders. Potential new DQ's!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdsong View Post
    Whew! Think I'm going to sit on the sidelines for this one!

    Guess this man should be scorned for crossing that "poodle".

    http://www.cowboydressage.com/weg.html
    Eitan is a great horseman and trainer and teacher. I don't much care what his saddle looks like.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somermist View Post
    Eitan is a great horseman and trainer and teacher. I don't much care what his saddle looks like.
    Agreed! Wonder how his health is now?
    "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"



  12. #12
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    Having come from the western world as a kid (early 70's) and then the saddle seat world in college (late 70's) and then getting into the eventing world in the late 80's I have some appreciation of the application of dressage to different disciplines.

    I do have to admit that I don't see much application of dressage in the WP world. Not back then, when the 4 beat canter (aka "cheating") was just starting to show up, and definitely not now. But get out of that and into one of the more active aspects of the western world and you will find it applied. I have several friends that are barrel racers and they appreciate dressage. We met a woman at the OK State Fair one year in the working cow horse division and she took dressage lessons with her horse, in western tack, weekly. She was also one of the top placed horse/riders in her division. I have the privilidge to ride some good rope horses, cutting horses, and reining horses. And all are "dressage" horses under different tack and applying it differently, ie in "the real world".

    What does make me curious however is the western dressage tests. What is a "working jog"?



  13. #13
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    Jack Brainard is a wonderfully well rounded old horseman, it's nice to see him working with peeps on this goal.

    The way I see it, the AQHA World revolves around that WP type of look, including the pattern horses in terms of Western Riding: to my eye they are often stiff in the body and don't paint a liquid, balanced picture. By creating Western Dressage, you are looking to develop horses that carry themselves well, supple, freely forward and steady, with a modified version of 'accepting contact with the bit'. Crisp halts, round circles, nice, clean transitions. Call for a walk in WP and it might take half a lap before anyone does it.

    There are a lot of people who aren't interested in going the AQHA route, and folks like Jack have recognized a gap and attempted to fill it.

    A working jog would be a jog with purpose: in other words, not a WP quality jog. A square, rhythmic, going somewhere, jog.

    Good for them.

    PetStore: The GP doesn't care two slivers about dressage. The purists know what they know, the GP doesn't care. I'm doing gaited dressage and so far as I know, no purists have been harmed in my pursuit of a pretty moving walking horse

    I found the rule book for those who are interested:
    http://www.usef.org/documents/breeds...Guidelines.pdf



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western View Post
    Dressage just means training/schooling, as naturalequus said.
    Yes, in French "dressage" translates to "training."

    Dressage, as used in the English language, refers to a particular style of riding and training, as well as a competitive discipline.

    It will be interesting to see where this goes. I rather like cross-pollination of disciplines and riding styles. I think they all have something to offer.
    __________________________
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  15. #15
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    Just at thought...
    I like the addition of "western Dressage" PROVIDED that it doesnt become some ruined patterns class as Katerine pointed out.

    I took my dressage trained QH to some open local breed shows and we whipped up in the patterns classes because dressage has built a solid foundation for a horse who is light and responsive. In rail classes we were beat up by the "wrenglish" riders who have that peanut roller head, slooooow lope/canter and just barely moving trot. Why? Because it's the rail look that wins in QH shows.

    The real test will be if the "western dressage" riders can shed their saddle horn and be competitive with "true" dressage riders. Otherwise it's just a fancy title for western horsemanship without the cones.
    Last edited by amm2cd; Mar. 16, 2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: spelling :(



  16. #16
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    OXYMORON
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  17. #17
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    Our GMO introduced the western dressage class at their last schooling show two weeks ago. There was a group of about 5 people on their cute QH's.

    They basically did all the same stuff at TL. But they had rope reins, curb bits, comfy western saddle, jeans or cute outfits with fringe! They looked like they were having a blast and all the horses were very obedient.

    I say, if the horses and the riders are having fun, and it introduces dressage to western riders and viceversa, why the hell not?!?!
    Last edited by BetterOffRed; Mar. 16, 2011 at 03:41 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Amen, Red...

    I say lets get dressage in there at our shows for western people who want to participate.. more participants = more $$ and support for dressage schooling shows - and we sooo need it!!!

    Besides - whatever will make people think about how "dressage" training affects a horse's (and rider's) physiology and mind, whatever the disicpline, is good for making better horsemen



  19. #19

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    The movements of dressage are movements the horses do naturally.
    So what then does the type of tack have to do with actual dressage?
    I began my education in dressage on a working cattle ranch not in a dressage barn.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    If it encourages western riders to stop the cranky yanky spanky garbage and that gawd awful 4 beat canter, I'm all for it
    Yup.


    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    but at the same time I take dressage very very seriously and find it insulting that the general public could potentially think "western dressage" is the same as classical or modern dressage.
    Um, who the heck cares what the public could potentially think? I agree with you on the point that any solid riding/horsemanship is welcome to see, there is definitely a difference between "western dressage" and the classical dressage that came out of Europe. But I don't really see why it matters what laypeople think. They don't even look at dressage as a real sport anyway.
    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo



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