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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2007
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    Default Full Gallop training XC

    We walked it with our trainer and it was a real eye-opener. I know it's not a move up course and I did not walk the other levels but I was very impressed with the size of the jumps and the technical questions asked. Thr rider we were with jumped clean, but my memory of training courses here in the midwest was that they were not that big or technical. Anyone else see it?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2009
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    Default i was there...

    I rode the T course at full gallop over the weekend. I don't necessarily feel it was a big course, just a very trappy course. My horse lost a lot of confidence going through the coffin and then again at the corner. The coffin was set at a horrible spot where the horse didn't see what was going on until after they jumped the first element, short one stride to the ditch then turning 1 or 2 strides to C element. He lost so much confidence that the next fence, just a regular old fly fence made him hesitate 2 strides out, questioning himself as to see if there was something he couldn't see. The corner was set at such an angle against some trees that you couldn't really jump it the way a corner should be jumped else you ended up in some trees, there was no "inviting" question about it. you ended up jumping more left to right over a right handed corner instead of slicing it the way a corner should be ridden...

    The training steps down almost was harder than the prelim steps up. You took a house at the top of a hill, 8 strides to 2 huge steps down (1 stride in between) 2-3 strides to a skinny 2 piece chervron turning to your next jump.

    one of the people at full gallop said if you got around this T course you could do prelim.

    the questions were all fair, i just felt that they were put in bad design in relationship to the landscap of the track and made even experienced horses lose confidence.

    my horse did jump around, but i have to say it felt trappy...

    any other thoughts to those who rode it or where there?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
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    Athens
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    Default

    I agree that the courses there never seem to ride very well for the terrain.

    My little prelim horse who was very, very brave, and honest had two stops when we ran there in August. It was the same thing. He was going, but lost confidence going around and ended up stopping at the second to last fence which should have been a no brainer.

    The jumps themselves always seem ok and when I school there I have great rides... it just does not seem to flow together as a course though.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
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    Pretty much horse heaven
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    Default

    I walked the training and thought it was big. A good course if you were prepping to move up to prelim, but not a confidence builder for a green horse. The prelim looked like a solid prelim. Friend running intermediate was happy the corner after the down bounce was numbered separately and not a C element. my impression was that training looked stoutest for the level of these three levels.
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.



  5. #5
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Pine Top side of Atlanta, GA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EventingChase View Post
    I agree that the courses there never seem to ride very well for the terrain.

    My little prelim horse who was very, very brave, and honest had two stops when we ran there in August. It was the same thing. He was going, but lost confidence going around and ended up stopping at the second to last fence which should have been a no brainer.

    The jumps themselves always seem ok and when I school there I have great rides... it just does not seem to flow together as a course though.
    I always leave course walks with my trainer realizing how little I know about how course designers should be able to ask legitimate questions that both test and teach the rider and horse - particularly at the lower levels. I know you ran Chasers in his very first Prelim just down the road at Paradise Farm and had a very positive outing for you and that cute, cute boy. What was the difference in the course questions? The terrain, the footing, the flow of the course? So much to learn in this sport and am very relieved to have smart folks asking smart questions (that sometimes I don't even know to ask!)
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2003
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    South Carolina
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    1,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikenites View Post
    The training steps down almost was harder than the prelim steps up. You took a house at the top of a hill, 8 strides to 2 huge steps down (1 stride in between) 2-3 strides to a skinny 2 piece chervron turning to your next jump.
    I jump judged sunday and went to look at the new steps after getting done. I was a little surprised that they had the prelim going up the steps and the training going down.. seems it would have been better to do the opposite. I agree that the prelim seemed easier than the training at the steps. Intermediate had some issue with their new steps at their level as well. I believe they had a house one stride (or two? can't remember) to a bounce down bank (big drops), that is already on a decent hill, and then a curving line to a big corner.
    Anyway it seemed there were lots of issues/stops/E/W in all the levels.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2008
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    40

    Default

    I rode the training course there this weekend. I felt it rode really nicely and was a great course to prepare horse and rider for prelim.

    I coffin rode very nicely and the steps down as well. I liked how the first water (roll top in the water) set you up for the second water (Drop then up the mound to a small roll top).

    I completely agree that the corner was set for you to run in the tree if it was jumped like a corner should be.

    I watched lots of rides on the T course after I rode and that was very educational. I saw a few issues at both the coffin and the banks. The Prelim down bank rode very nicely for those that jumped the bank on the right side. I think the reason prelim had the two small banks up was because the had the roll top to bank at the beginning of the course.



  8. #8
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Over the past years there have been quite a few threads on analyzing courses, what to look for...I went back thru my emails and found one my trainer Lellie Ward wrote to me after an event she had gone to with her horses. I had wondered why she had gone to the event rather than another...here's her reply which may add to the discussion about the Full Gallop training course or any course:

    First thing I look for in a cross country course is the going. I prefer big galloping courses as opposed to windy, twisty, courses . The consistency of the footing, the camber of the track, the turf, the soil all play a huge part in the experience the horse will have while galloping and jumping.

    I look for events that clearly place high importance on the maintenance of their ground.....That is more important than electricity and rubber mats to me.The ground is number one.....

    The horses want to eagerly look through the bridle, clearly sighting their next obstacle with enough room to understand the question asked of them.The jumps should ask questions appropriate to the ground they are on,not just be interspersed around the track to make the distances work.

    The horses need to finish the courses looking for more jumps. They should finish their day with confidence not defeat. it is always about the education of the horse,not about the time or the prizes.
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2007
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    Default

    I have also found it to school well and have fun. And when I rode the training course recently, it rode fine for us. But initially that wasn't the case, though that was more just my goofy horse being over stimulated by the amount of stuff at the second water. But it is a bit windy... I remember one time it was in and out of the big field about 6 times it seemed

    But it could also be that I've schooled it enough that it doesn't ride as funky for me.

    Good to hear though that it's a stout training because we've been fine there and are thinking about moving up soonish.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2009
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Schooling alone, the jumps where fine but in relationship to the terrain and positioning of the fences it was not a good, well laid out course. My horse had no problems with the fences but he lost confidence with every trappy fence.

    I like what RunforIt posted from her trainer and how true those words are. I'm also going to take those words into consideration whenever I look at entering another event. Thanks for sharing RunforIt.

    Lara said that they don't ever run the same T course that it is new and different with every event... I would agree compared to when I ran it in 2009. And when I watched last fall's event. I didn't see the 2 earlier events this year....



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2008
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    northeast
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    Default

    I thought both the Training & the Prelim were a bit stiff for this time of the year. Granted, it is the 3rd event there this spring & I suppose the design followed a progression of difficulty from 1st to 3rd event, but.....it is still March and there were people there riding in their first outing of the year. I think the organizer/course designer needs to take the early time of year into account & put more run & jump into the course than "tricks". I felt it was too much, too early in the year. I saw too many unhappy Prelim horses, was glad not be running there.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    Atlanta
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    Default

    Was the T corner at the very bottom of the course in the woods? If so, I remember it from last year's March HT. The rest of the course rode fine, but I was happy about Taco's generosity there-- it came up so fast out of the turn and I wasn't as accurate on my line as I could have been.



  13. #13
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    Oct. 7, 2009
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    Default

    http://blueclovereventing.blogspot.c...ll-gallop.html

    a pro blog discusses the course...

    the T corner was in the field with the big down banks in the middle field . it was set against a crop of trees on one side and the prelim corner on the other. I would have prefered to jump the prelim corner over where the T corner was situated...


    ----()()
    P <()()> T

    the above, very basic with the symbols on a keyboard kind of dipicts the design of the corners on P and T courses. The P < corner on the left of the trees being right handed jumping towards the new up banks; the > T corner also being right handed jumping away from the banks towards the huge intermediate blue table pathway to the back water jump. THe "()" symbols generally represent the tree positions.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
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    Athens
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RunForIt View Post
    I always leave course walks with my trainer realizing how little I know about how course designers should be able to ask legitimate questions that both test and teach the rider and horse - particularly at the lower levels. I know you ran Chasers in his very first Prelim just down the road at Paradise Farm and had a very positive outing for you and that cute, cute boy. What was the difference in the course questions? The terrain, the footing, the flow of the course? So much to learn in this sport and am very relieved to have smart folks asking smart questions (that sometimes I don't even know to ask!)

    Well, I feel Paradise really encourages the horses to gallop. The fences are big but the course is not trappy and Chase got more and more confident going along on that course.

    Full Gallop was just strange. He did all the hard questions, skipped through the angled coffin that caught everyone out, the corners etc. but he got more worried as the course went on and finally had enough by the end. As a disclaimer I did have the flu and my energy levels/balance were a little off and he was really taking care of me. But- I never felt like he hit that "zone" there, where they are really locked on and cruising aorund.

    Again, I really like the facility, the fences, and have always enjoyed my schoolings there so I was just suprised to have such a "ehh" round.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2009
    Location
    Thurmond, NC
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    285

    Default Rode T and I

    I took my young stallion to his first recognized Training at FGF this weekend. I must say that I was a bit worried when I walked the course for Training. My boy is pretty brave, but it walked more like a mini-Prelim. However, I was very pleased when he made it around safely and confidently. He had some green moments, but I felt like he learned a lot going around the course. I'm just happy that it went well.

    The Intermediate steps were definitely tough! I think my horse was one of the few that successfully did the steps and the corner directly. He's a superstar, though, and loves his job. I heard a lot of riders talking about the steps and not liking the way it was set up.
    Jessica Bortner-Harris
    www.rockystartstables.com
    "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."



  16. #16
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    May. 21, 2007
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    Default

    Jessica, you went through the I-steps like a knife through butter! Your sister was standing with me explaining why everyone was successful or unsuccessful... and there you went..



  17. #17
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    May. 23, 2007
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    Southern Indiana
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RunForIt View Post
    Over the past years there have been quite a few threads on analyzing courses, what to look for...I went back thru my emails and found one my trainer Lellie Ward wrote to me after an event she had gone to with her horses. I had wondered why she had gone to the event rather than another...here's her reply which may add to the discussion about the Full Gallop training course or any course:

    First thing I look for in a cross country course is the going. I prefer big galloping courses as opposed to windy, twisty, courses . The consistency of the footing, the camber of the track, the turf, the soil all play a huge part in the experience the horse will have while galloping and jumping.

    I look for events that clearly place high importance on the maintenance of their ground.....That is more important than electricity and rubber mats to me.The ground is number one.....

    The horses want to eagerly look through the bridle, clearly sighting their next obstacle with enough room to understand the question asked of them.The jumps should ask questions appropriate to the ground they are on,not just be interspersed around the track to make the distances work.

    The horses need to finish the courses looking for more jumps. They should finish their day with confidence not defeat. it is always about the education of the horse,not about the time or the prizes.
    I noticed that Lellie did Southern Pines the same weekend Full Gallop ran. Since Full Gallop is literally right down the road from her I wondered if she just wanted a different venue for her boys or if she didn't like the course.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2009
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    Thurmond, NC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CapturinYerRide View Post
    Jessica, you went through the I-steps like a knife through butter! Your sister was standing with me explaining why everyone was successful or unsuccessful... and there you went..
    Thanks, Mark! haha She's actually my student. We've adopted each other, as neither of us has a sister. She came along for the weekend to groom for me. She's super!

    As for the steps, I couldn't have been more proud of my boy! "My Sis" was telling me later that I was one of very few that made it through there without circling. He's such a superstar horse.

    Hope to see you at more events this year!!
    Jessica Bortner-Harris
    www.rockystartstables.com
    "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."



  19. #19
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riderboy View Post
    I noticed that Lellie did Southern Pines the same weekend Full Gallop ran. Since Full Gallop is literally right down the road from her I wondered if she just wanted a different venue for her boys or if she didn't like the course.
    I'd call Lellie and ask her, not me...I can suggest you read her email to me on the "When and where to move up" thread...footing and how/why the fences occur on courses are paramount to Lellie...but again, call her or better yet, go to Paradise Farm, check out the footing, the courses, and just talk with Lellie - be ready for the truth though. She doesn't play politics and doesn't suffer fools very well. JMHO
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  20. #20
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    Default Riderboy, please READ!!!!

    I just reread my post and realized you might have thought I was talking about YOU when I said Lellie doesn't suffer fools very well...neither do I. Did not mean to point that comment in your direction at all - just wanted you to know that similar to me, if you ask Lellie's opinion, she will believe you really want her to tell you what she thinks and she'll explain her reasoning...

    I just wanted to make sure I didn't offend you.

    Cheers!
    Lynda
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



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