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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    852

    Default Ok. I give up. What works for ulcery horses nutrition wise??

    Sorry, I k now this has been done to death - but can I get some feedback, ideas, anything?


    11 yr old ottb. came off as an 8 yr old. Lower level event horse.

    Been through the full ug series, three - four times. (been scoped,etc):

    Lives in a stall he can walk out of anytime to a paddock that has a little grass. Gets t/o daily weather permitting, and we are not scared of rain, etc. but t/o is limited due to space (about 2 acres).

    Free choice alf/grss mix.

    AM 1/2 large scp fibergized
    1/2 scp senior
    small scp enrich 32
    1 scoop smartgut
    dinner same, with 1/2 cup flax seed

    late check 1/2 large scp fbgzd
    1/2 scp senior
    large dollop canola oil

    He is doing pretty well on this. I cannot get his topline built up anymore, we have gotten to a certain point, and that's it folks.

    We walk hills. We know about round and accepting of bridle, etc. (approved by a reputable trainer)

    he did fracture his withers we think as a foal.
    he does get seen by the chiropractor - not as often as I would like, but as often as wallet permits.

    What am I missing??

    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 2010
    Posts
    1,434

    Default

    I am surprised that your feeding regimen works.

    I am not a fan of senior feeds and few horses I have cared for would choose it given an option. I am not a fan of oil. Sunflower seeds, yes, rice bran, yes, but not oil. If you want to feed oil I prefer rice bran as I have seen it work wonders for some horses.

    Not all horses tolerate flax all that well.

    I don't know the other stuff in your horses diet.

    Everything else sounds like a good set up. Does he have good company?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    18,599

    Default

    I do like TC Senior (11.7% NSC), lower than Fibergized (19%) and my guys all love it.

    Not all senior feeds are created equal...some I do not like.

    We feed TC Senior (6 to 8 lbs per day, one gets a small handful plus a vit/min supplement), SmartOmega3 and, for the one who needs it, VitaCalm. Seems to do the trick for our OTTBs.

    If I need to give Bute or Banamine for more than one day, they get 1/4 tube of Gastroguard as a preventative.

    Does he have a buddy or is he on individual turnout?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Yes, he has a buddy. He is turned out with another horse.

    The senior I am using is Pennfield Senior energized.




    Not sure what you mean about being surprised my regimen works?
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2008
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy76 View Post
    Sorry, I k now this has been done to death - but can I get some feedback, ideas, anything?


    11 yr old ottb. came off as an 8 yr old. Lower level event horse.

    Been through the full ug series, three - four times. (been scoped,etc):

    Lives in a stall he can walk out of anytime to a paddock that has a little grass. Gets t/o daily weather permitting, and we are not scared of rain, etc. but t/o is limited due to space (about 2 acres).

    Free choice alf/grss mix.

    AM 1/2 large scp fibergized
    1/2 scp senior
    small scp enrich 32
    1 scoop smartgut
    dinner same, with 1/2 cup flax seed

    late check 1/2 large scp fbgzd
    1/2 scp senior
    large dollop canola oil

    He is doing pretty well on this. I cannot get his topline built up anymore, we have gotten to a certain point, and that's it folks.

    We walk hills. We know about round and accepting of bridle, etc. (approved by a reputable trainer)

    he did fracture his withers we think as a foal.
    he does get seen by the chiropractor - not as often as I would like, but as often as wallet permits.

    What am I missing??

    What works well for ALL of my horses...from OTTB's to Warmbloolds is: Plain Soaked Beetpulp for my fiber...and Progressive Nutrition Pro Advantage Grass Diet Balancer-for my nutrition(vitamins/minerals/proteins and Amino Acids-which is what will improve the topline)and Envision Classic for additional calories....this is the lowest starch/sugar way to feed a horse....this feeding program has completely turned around my former ulcer/hard keeper ottb...and it is so great for top lines that nobody believes me when they see how great a condition my 20yr old Danish Warmblood looks

    I also really like giving Fastrak probiotic along w/ U7 Gastric Aid,Smart Gut and/or Aloe Vera juice



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Concetta View Post
    What works well for ALL of my horses...from OTTB's to Warmbloolds is: Plain Soaked Beetpulp for my fiber...and Progressive Nutrition Pro Advantage Grass Diet Balancer-for my nutrition(vitamins/minerals/proteins and Amino Acids-which is what will improve the topline)and Envision Classic for additional calories....this is the lowest starch/sugar way to feed a horse....this feeding program has completely turned around my former ulcer/hard keeper ottb...and it is so great for top lines that nobody believes me when they see how great a condition my 20yr old Danish Warmblood looks

    I also really like giving Fastrak probiotic along w/ U7 Gastric Aid,Smart Gut and/or Aloe Vera juice
    thanks! I was actually thinking of switching from smartgut to progressive soothing pink, but I think I'll wait.

    the diet balancer and envision classic - which do you think was the most effective for the topline?
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2008
    Posts
    1,526

    Default

    We have had a ton of success with TractGard by Foxden Equine. Have you tried that?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    4,007

    Default

    Alfalfa has been shown to help ulcer prone horses...the calcium will buffer the stomach acid to some extent. I would throw a flake of alfalfa or give a pound or so of alfalfa pellets or cubes with each meal.

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Concetta View Post
    What works well for ALL of my horses...from OTTB's to Warmbloolds is: Plain Soaked Beetpulp for my fiber...and Progressive Nutrition Pro Advantage Grass Diet Balancer-for my nutrition(vitamins/minerals/proteins and Amino Acids-which is what will improve the topline)and Envision Classic for additional calories....this is the lowest starch/sugar way to feed a horse....this feeding program has completely turned around my former ulcer/hard keeper ottb...and it is so great for top lines that nobody believes me when they see how great a condition my 20yr old Danish Warmblood looks

    I also really like giving Fastrak probiotic along w/ U7 Gastric Aid,Smart Gut and/or Aloe Vera juice
    This is what i would feed your horse, with free choice alfalfa hay, so use the alfalfa balancer. The huge advantage in your case will be how little you have to feed... I suspect you are putting wayyyy too much feed in his stomach at one time for an ulcery horse.

    I use this digestive supplement when necessary:

    http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/store/...16&category=27
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMare01 View Post
    Alfalfa has been shown to help ulcer prone horses...the calcium will buffer the stomach acid to some extent. I would throw a flake of alfalfa or give a pound or so of alfalfa pellets or cubes with each meal.

    Caitlin
    I've had good success with reducing ulcers with straight alfalfa, in addition to their treatment and then a preventative (I like U7 by Finish Line).



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
    Location
    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
    Posts
    6,111



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2010
    Location
    Purcellville, VA
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Concetta View Post
    What works well for ALL of my horses...from OTTB's to Warmbloolds is: Plain Soaked Beetpulp for my fiber...and Progressive Nutrition Pro Advantage Grass Diet Balancer-for my nutrition(vitamins/minerals/proteins and Amino Acids-which is what will improve the topline)and Envision Classic for additional calories....this is the lowest starch/sugar way to feed a horse....this feeding program has completely turned around my former ulcer/hard keeper ottb...and it is so great for top lines that nobody believes me when they see how great a condition my 20yr old Danish Warmblood looks

    I also really like giving Fastrak probiotic along w/ U7 Gastric Aid,Smart Gut and/or Aloe Vera juice
    Concetta, what amounts do you feed of each?

    I am getting back my beloved horse that I sold last year (some of you may remember this thread ) severely underweight and malnourished and I think he may have ulcers. He weighed about 900lbs when he was moved from his previous situation. A local lesson barn (which I had no idea he was going to be a lesson horse, but thats neither here nor there...) He's 17 hands.

    I plan on getting him scoped, but in the mean time he's getting loads of Ultium, and some sort of sweet feed loaded with molassas (5lbs like 5x per day) that can't be good for his belly....can it He's also getting timothy hay and only a flake of alfalfa. I plan on switching to pure alfalfa.

    I also want to switch him to a low sugar high fat feed and thought your feed plan sounded perfect.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2007
    Posts
    481

    Default

    My ulcery OTTB was having mild symptoms even after UG treatment for two months. I realized it was the grain and tried every one available in my area. What finally worked was Sentinel Performance Low Starch (Blue Seal). I'm not sure if he can handle it because it's completely extruded or because it's low starch (or both), but he's been doing excellent on it for four years now.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA, USA
    Posts
    2,489

    Default A couple of things you can do

    The best one would be to add more calcium to his diet to buffer the acid in his stomach, you can do this by.

    Adding tums to his feed, however many to 400-800mg of Ca.
    Add 1-5g (a teaspoonful) of limestone flour to his feed.
    Add 2-4 oz of TractGard™ to his feed.

    In crease the amount of alfalfa in his hay, but I think you would do better with the calcium buffer in the grain meal.

    Any of those will help buffer the excess acid.
    MW
    Melyni (PhD) PAS, Dipl. ACAN.
    Sign up for the Equine nutrition enewsletter on www.foxdenequine.com
    New edition of book is out:
    Horse Nutrition Handbook.

    www.knabstruppers4usa.com



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2008
    Posts
    229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat Lux View Post
    My ulcery OTTB was having mild symptoms even after UG treatment for two months. I realized it was the grain and tried every one available in my area. What finally worked was Sentinel Performance Low Starch (Blue Seal). I'm not sure if he can handle it because it's completely extruded or because it's low starch (or both), but he's been doing excellent on it for four years now.
    Good to hear you've had such great results. I love the LS
    . Purely anecdotal, but I had a horse I suspected to be ulcery and LS has helped him immensely. I tried other feeds, etc., but LS won, hands down.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2008
    Posts
    926

    Default

    Mt OTTb gets XTN feed with soaked beet pulp with molasses, alfalfa hay, smart gut and as much turnout with his buddy as he wants. His ulcers cleared right up.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2004
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    Another vote to stack up w/ Concetta.

    I have been raising two big homebred WB/TB crosses and I fell into feeding them soaked beet pulp and alfalfa cubes, Progressive Add, and plain oats. Free choice grass round bales, alfalfa flakes am/pm.

    So plain, so simple (and cheaper!) and they have beautiful feet and bone, are well muscled and have glowing healthy coats.

    I do add aloe vera juice when they travel and we use the tums product as treats and before trailering.
    About the only time losing is more fun than winning is when you're fighting temptation.
    -- Tom Wilson, actor & comedian



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

    Default

    Soaked plain beet pulp, alfalfa hay, a little Ultium (not much), black oil seed, flax. Sometimes a little rice bran instead of flax. I put her on SmartGut but won't be continuing with it. It's been about a month or so and all of a sudden a couple days ago she was totally off her feed. She was behaving normally, no problems, but she came in to her stall, and would not touch a bite of her evening feed, or hay. I gave her a tube of Gastrogard and within a few hours she began eating. Ate fine all night, cleaned up everything, was ravenously hungry the next morning, dug into her morning hay, and ate like a starved elephant. I've been giving her 1/4 tubes of Gastrogard since, and she's fine. So whatever happened that day, I don't know, but I don't think the SmartGut did a thing for her.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2007
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Treatment and Maintenance Feeding

    1) Alfalfa hay- cubes are ok if you can't get hay. Can add to your regular grass mix hay. Calcium will buffer the acid in the stomach. Years of research on this.

    2) Aloe vera juice - again many, many studies - about 60cc orally am and pm to coat stomach while ulcers are allowed to heal.

    3) Little to NO grain. If you can maintain weight on hay (alfalfa included) this is much closer to how they were meant to eat and you are not getting such extreme increases in acid production which happen when you feed a grain meal.

    4) Corn oil can be added to also coat stomach while ulcers are allowed to heal.

    5) Daily Turnout

    There are many other "over the counter" products out there that do similar things to the items listed above, but these are probably the cheapest.

    Prescription products can help reduce production of acid

    1)proton-pump inhibitors: gastroguard (prescription) and ulcerguard (about 1/4 strength of gastroguard) - should not be used longer then recommended - 28 days - as they can affect other body systems.

    2) H2 blockers: Cimitidine, Ranitidine



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2004
    Location
    NW CT
    Posts
    837

    Default

    McCauley's Alam and their (different) rice bran oil works wonders.
    The aids are the legs, the hands, the weight of the rider, the whip, the caress, the voice and the use of extraneous circumstances. ~ General Decarpentry
    www.reflectionsonriding.com



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