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  1. #1
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    Default Spin off: The death of the "B" and "C" shows.

    I was reading the thread about prize money offered. How the top of the sport want more money at the high end and less at the low end etc etc etc.

    Someone mentioned in the first few post that the intermediate and beginners are raising in the "A"s. That there are few to none rated "B" and "C" shows offered etc.

    Why doesn't someone make a move to try to get some of the state organizations rated by the USEF? We are lucky in MI, we have our local "B" and "C " shows (that are NOT USEF rated) and we have USEF "A" and HSBB which I think is USEF "AA". Most of the trainers that show on our local state circuit also show at the "A" and "AA" shows. I think our "C" and "B" could likely move to rated "C" and "B" with out a problem.

    Do organizations just not want to deal with it? or does USEF not want to deal with it? Why can't there be shows like AQHA? You can have a local circuit that has it's own points/ year-end and so forth but the points also count towards AQHA.

    If trainers were able to get their students in recognized shows they maybe less likely to push them into the bigger shows ( which seems to be every ones complainant) They get the prestige of having their students and horses earning points, they still get their money, but the "A" would still be the "A" for the best higher riders and then the "C" and "B" could be a stepping stone to get up to that 3'6" and higher class.

    This way the locals still get their money (more if the lower classes are eliminated) and USEF still gets money from everyone...

    This is just food for thought because I have no issue with them having a 2' class at "A" shows, makes no difference to me.



  2. #2
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    Dec. 11, 2007
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    good idea, but I think the real reason why lower level students are pushed into the bigger shows has alot more to do with staff and geography.Most barns do not have staff to send out two strings of customers to horseshows, one at the A/AA level and one at the B/C level.Some trainers may adjust their horseshow schedule to accomodate for all their customers, but on the whole, if they are a show barn, they will mainly be going to the A/AA shows.



  3. #3
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    Oct. 21, 2009
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    From what I understand, it's mostly an issue of costs. It can be pricey to get a rated judge and USEF officials for little B shows- probably because there aren't a whole lot of officials floating around (due to it being expensive and a major pain to get get certified). So management makes less money at these B shows than they would if it was just a nonrated show where they don't need officials and can use any judge.


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  4. #4
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    Mar. 28, 2001
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    Aiken, SC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nlk View Post
    Someone mentioned in the first few post that the intermediate and beginners are raising in the "A"s. That there are few to none rated "B" and "C" shows offered etc.

    .
    Your statement is not entirely true.
    It depends what zone you are in.
    Zones 1 and 2, for example, have more C and B USEF rated shows than they do A or AA shows.

    124 BC in Zone 1 and 415 BC in Zone 2. Zone 1 and 2 are the zones that have the most USEF rated shows.

    Zone 3 21 BC
    Zone 4 43 BC
    Zone 5 32 BC
    BC shows are available in 3.4.5

    Zones 6,10,11,12 have very few shows in total.
    Zone 7 is top heavy in A and AA shows.

    These figures come from the data that USHJA published for the 2009 show year.

    some regional show associations require that every member show be USEFrated.


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  5. #5
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    Zone 7 does have a few B shows this year but they don't advertise much at all. I assume management turns their paper work in at the last possible moment and then USEF doesn't update their calendar in time to generate a lot of interest. Wonderful marketing strategy- oh wait, now why aren't there more people attending those shows?

    It would be cool if USEF or USHJA offered discounted advertisement for b/c shows in either Equestrian magazine or In Stride.



  6. #6
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    Aug. 13, 2008
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    There are several rated, USEF recognized, B shows in my area. My barn goes to those as well as A's and some random schooling shows for the greener horses/riders. Those can still be pricey, (not nearly as much as an A show), but are a nice step up from local shows.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hntrjmprpro45 View Post
    Zone 7 does have a few B shows this year but they don't advertise much at all. I assume management turns their paper work in at the last possible moment and then USEF doesn't update their calendar in time to generate a lot of interest. Wonderful marketing strategy- oh wait, now why aren't there more people attending those shows?

    It would be cool if USEF or USHJA offered discounted advertisement for b/c shows in either Equestrian magazine or In Stride.
    The last possible minute is 60 days. But if the barn sets their schedule at the start of the year new shows might get skipped.

    But if it's a multi year license renewal or a single year renewal or a new application there are differences in the date requirements.

    30 days prior to the show date changing
    60 days prior to the show location changing
    30 days prior to the show to add, change divisions

    "7. A complete application accompanied by appropriate fees to hold a Regular Competition, Reining Competition, or Dressage Competition must be received in the Federation’s office at least sixty days prior to the date(s) requested.
    6. Renewal License Applications are due as follows:
    a. For multi-year licenses, renewals must be received within sixty days of the last day of the next to last competition under an existing license.
    b. For single year licenses, renewals must be received within sixty days of the last day of the licensed competition"

    I agree, a discounted ad would be great.



  8. #8
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    Aug. 7, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    Your statement is not entirely true.
    It depends what zone you are in.
    Zones 1 and 2, for example, have more C and B USEF rated shows than they do A or AA shows.

    124 BC in Zone 1 and 415 BC in Zone 2. Zone 1 and 2 are the zones that have the most USEF rated shows.

    Zone 3 21 BC
    Zone 4 43 BC
    Zone 5 32 BC
    BC shows are available in 3.4.5

    Zones 6,10,11,12 have very few shows in total.
    Zone 7 is top heavy in A and AA shows.

    These figures come from the data that USHJA published for the 2009 show year.

    some regional show associations require that every member show be USEFrated.
    For Zone 5, especially in the KY area, that number has diminished a bit due to facility fees being high and not enough interested entries.

    It makes me sad because I'm an AA hunter rider, and while I am leasing a nice reliable horse, she isn't going to ever be Palm Beach material, which at the KY Spring and Summer shows is what you see. I would be perfectly contented to save money with the Bs and Cs and have a chance at placing or winning if we put in a solid round (which we have done before at A shows, but in crowds of 30 beautiful horses, who cares?).



  9. #9
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    May. 15, 2001
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    Gilbert, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by indygirl2560 View Post
    There are several rated, USEF recognized, B shows in my area. My barn goes to those as well as A's and some random schooling shows for the greener horses/riders. Those can still be pricey, (not nearly as much as an A show), but are a nice step up from local shows.
    The B shows I have done have cost about the same as the A shows. The fixed costs are pretty similar and the savings of maybe $5 per class is meaningless in the overall scheme of things. I also don't care for the craziness of a one or two day show with a greenie.



  10. #10
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    We are very lucky to have a nice C circuit just up the road from us. It's great for my students that are talented riders but cannot afford to shell out the money for the A shows.
    **Friend of bar.ka**

    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
    My equine soulmate



  11. #11
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    As someone who grew up in Zone 7 and cut their teeth on the B & C circuits there I can attest that the majority of them are gone.
    We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another
    EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta



  12. #12
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    Our area has had, just this year, a B and C rated show emerge. I was out of the circuit last show season but from what I surmise our 2 local circuits are trying to cannabalize each other and this B and C circuit will be at similar venues to the local circuit but offer a prize list similar to the A shows at a fraction of the cost.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    Zone 4 43 BC
    Really??? I know you said your figures are from 2009 but I just checked USEF's website for 2011 and assuming their Competition Search engine works (is that a "big IF"? I've never used it before), I only found 3 (2 of which are in Wellington) that are USEF "B"s. Florida in general has a lot more USEF "C"s but there are none at all anywhere else in Zone 4.

    I do feel really lucky in that there is, here in GA, a plethora of non-USEF-rated, GHJA-Local rated show series. Below that there are a variety of non-GHJA rated circuits. At all of these levels some of the series are great and some a lot less so, but as the owner of a baby greenie paying for trainer rides, I can honestly find nonrated stuff for him to do right up to 3'3". I'm also lucky that my trainer has a similarly situated baby greenie who's not ready for prime time either, so we do those shows b/c it's a lot less painful for them both to be goofbags at $15 a class! It's not going to cost either one of us $30k to get them to the first years, that's for sure.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  14. #14
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    Mar. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Really??? I know you said your figures are from 2009 but I just checked USEF's website for 2011 and assuming their Competition Search engine works (is that a "big IF"? I've never used it before), I only found 3 (2 of which are in Wellington) that are USEF "B"s. Florida in general has a lot more USEF "C"s but there are none at all anywhere else in Zone 4.
    Yes, really. According to USHJA.
    I guess you didn't notice but the numbers given were for B and C shows combined. NOT for B shows only.

    Your reply seems to indicate that you looked at B shows only as you do say that Florida has a lot more C shows.

    Alpharetta Ga had a B show in 2009 as did Atlanta.



  15. #15
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    Dec. 22, 2009
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    Lower Saxony, Germany
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    Hey there....yeah it's the silly german! ;-)

    This might be a bit off topic:
    But why don't you copy the way we host shows here in Germany? And the other question must a show always run more days the friday afternoon til sunday afternoon?
    When i was a kid i could always show on the weekend do one equitation like class around 0.80cm and another one at around 1m and if it was a good show i also could do a normal jumper class also around 1m then we had my pony back on the trailer and we where home at early evening and maybe i could do another show on the other day. maybe all there classes where split over saturday and sunday

    Why do you have to pay so much? thats my main question? or the other way what does it cost to hold a show?

    yeah the silly two euro cents from germany



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    Yes, really. According to USHJA.
    I guess you didn't notice but the numbers given were for B and C shows combined. NOT for B shows only.

    Your reply seems to indicate that you looked at B shows only as you do say that Florida has a lot more C shows.

    Alpharetta Ga had a B show in 2009 as did Atlanta.
    No, I looked at both B's and C's but they're separate searches in USEF's competition search engine - you cannot search "B/C".

    FWIW neither Alpharetta nor Atlanta (which I assume really means Conyers) has a B or C show at all this coming year, or, as far as I can determine, even any "A"s that are B or C rated in certain divisions.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post
    As someone who grew up in Zone 7 and cut their teeth on the B & C circuits there I can attest that the majority of them are gone.
    Or have about 30 horses entered, total.

    I don't know how some of them are hanging on.



  18. #18
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    yep, they tried to run some B shows around here last year, and they had to cancel every single one of them due to lack of interest
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Fish View Post
    Or have about 30 horses entered, total.

    I don't know how some of them are hanging on.
    It is a rough area with such sparsely populated large amounts of space, but it used to work, and I even moved up to the Juniors with a new horse in decent sized company.

    Sad
    We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another
    EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post
    It is a rough area with such sparsely populated large amounts of space, but it used to work, and I even moved up to the Juniors with a new horse in decent sized company.

    Sad
    Yes! I remember doing childrens hunters at local barns back when Oklahoma really had B shows. Last year was the first year that they brought them back and most if the divisions barely filled with 3-4 riders and several didn't fill at all. Hopefully this year they will do better at advertising and bring in some people from out of town to fill divisions!



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