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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Untreated EPM horse on Giveaways

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...85#post5435185

    "EPM horse needs home - CA
    A friend of mine recently purchased a 4yo 16.2hh Thoroughbred gelding unraced from a sale in Jan. He has since been diagnosed with EPM and likely untreatable. It is effectly his left hip. He is very social, sweet, not a mean bone in his body. She is looking to find him a companion home. Horse is located in Southern California, if you can help me contact me!! EquineRacers@aol.com
    http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1684287_n.jpg"



    What is wrong with people? As I posted in reply, treat him or put him down!
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  2. #2
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    Aug. 30, 2007
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    Sunny Florida
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    Default Well

    I dunno. I have a horse that was diagnosed with EPM, too, and as it turned out, it was not EPM, she had a broken hip. Just sayin' you know? If indeed it is EPM and untreatable, the horse may be better off if put down.
    "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..."



  3. #3
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    Sep. 28, 2008
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    Default

    Without more information from the person who posted the Giveaway, you cannot jump to the conclusions you have.

    Could be the horse has been treated and has a permanent disability that he cannot recover from, but could be fine as a pasture puff, hence untreatable.

    Once she provides more information and context around the words she used in her post then we can take the sticks out and start whacking at her. Until then cut her some slack.
    Last edited by JMurray; Feb. 18, 2011 at 07:38 AM. Reason: spelling
    *Every horse is a self-portrait of the rider....Autograph your work with excellence.*
    Supporting Nokotas www.nokotahorse.org
    Lipizzan's rock! http://rigitta.blogspot.com/



  4. #4
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    Default

    Too late, I already have my stick picked out. It's one of those thorny tree things.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JMurray View Post
    Could be the horse has been treated and has a permanent disability that he cannot recover from, but could be fine as a pature puff, hence untreatable.
    I've seen that happen before. One of my former co-boarders had a horse that had EPM, was treated, and recovered to the point that she was very comfortable toodling around the pasture, but she was always a little NQR, and they didn't feel comfortable returning her to work.

    Without knowing the horse or the situation, it's hard to say what's actually going on.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  6. #6
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    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    Too late, I already have my stick picked out. It's one of those thorny tree things.
    I think the "thorny tree things" are called cactus. Just sayin' .
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  7. #7
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    Default

    I've never had a vet say anything is "likely untreatable." If horse/dog/cat has a terminal disease, vet says pain meds and all.
    So the questions on that thread abound: Was there a spinal tap? Was the horse treated with Marquis?

    I wish there was a vaccine for EPM. But till then Marquis is the only way to go.



  8. #8
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    Jan. 20, 2004
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    La Habra Heights, CA
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    Default

    Please don't send hate mail to the email address in the first post!

    It's not her horse, she is an exercise rider at a local track and is always trying to find good homes for former racehorses - she's part of the solution, not part of the problem. Thanks!
    --o0o--



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Cool

    Yeah, the "likely untreatable" part chaps my butt, too. Probably more like, "likely the owner doesn't feel like paying for it".
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  10. #10
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    Default

    I noticed that she advertises a lot of horses in giveaway. But, I wish she had been a little more clear, if the horse was treated adequately and unrideable or if he has not been treated.

    Of course, if he has not been treated, the responsible and humane thing to do is to put him down.

    I don't think she needs hate mail either, just clarification.

    But the term, "likely untreatable" is a very odd way to phrase it no matter how you look at it.

    And, to find a home for a horse with EPM, if treated, is going to be next to impossible. We had a horse here for training, who relapsed (he was VERY adequately treated the first time) and we had to put him down. One of the saddest days of my life and not something I would purposely go through again, but not anything his owner or I would have pushed off onto anyone else.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  11. #11
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Default

    I wouldn't touch another horse with a known EPM diagnosis with a ten-foot pole. Not worth the expense or angst of dealing with again without much potential for a positive outcome. Given how many other free horses are available it seems foolishly optimistic to even try here.



  12. #12
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    Sep. 28, 2008
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    Default

    Yes it will be hard to find a safe home for this horse, but good for them for at least trying.

    We should give them a round of applause and our support instead of all this gloom and doom.

    I hope the OP posts again with more information but I don't blame her if she doesn't. Hardly a warm welcome received.
    *Every horse is a self-portrait of the rider....Autograph your work with excellence.*
    Supporting Nokotas www.nokotahorse.org
    Lipizzan's rock! http://rigitta.blogspot.com/



  13. #13
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    Default

    I really don't understand why the owners should get a round of applause, if that's what you meant. They're trying to push off their problem onto someone else.

    As far as the OP, yes, sounds like he/she is trying to help, we just need to know what the full story is.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  14. #14
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    Default

    I suppose it's nice they're trying, but what are the odds? It's an expensive disease to treat, even with treatment the prognosis is often poor, and it's not a fun disease to watch a horse deal with.

    I mean, kudos for not hiding the diagnosis, but it does seem like trying to offload an expensive problem. That 'free' horse will cost a lot of money just to keep pasture sound and safe for turnout. And it's not like there's a shortage of sound, free horses right now.

    (And I'm referring to the owner, not the person listing, as it seems she does this for a lot of people. I hope she told them, disclosure's good, but this isn't really a horse many or any people are going to want.)



  15. #15
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    Nov. 7, 2007
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    SE PA
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    Default

    Hate to say it, but this is an example of what I meant with my euthanasia post recently.

    Even if the horse is pasture sound, he's 4. That's a long time, and hard reality, there are so many out there needing homes that don't have issues, and I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that even fewer homes for pasture puffs.
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  16. #16
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Yeah, the "likely untreatable" part chaps my butt, too. Probably more like, "likely the owner doesn't feel like paying for it".
    Hey we had a guy in our office in Atlanta who used a similar phrase.

    I have not had a horse with EPM, thank God, but I was at a barn in 2002 where a horse had it, and was treated 2x with Marquis, and was then 'sent off." Those people on here who have nursed their horses thru EPM and relapses know the expense, not just the Marquis but the Vitamine E., etc., and can best tell people that giving away a horse with EPM is not helping the horse or the person taking him. Being a responsible horse owner means making hard decisions. And sometimes that decision must be euth-ing.

    I kept my mare Callie after she foundered from a dex shot in her 20s, not IR, and it was expensive but she deserved to live out her life. And I boarded her with full board with Cloudy as I had when she was a healthy riding horse. But I'd never "take on" a horse with any serious medical issues.

    ETA I think it is great that OP tries to place off track TBs.



  17. #17
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    This all goes back to the responsibility we have when we own a horse (or any companion animal really).

    We are responsible for their well being, their care and the decisons that need to be made for them. I learned a very hard lesson about that when I was 24 with my first horse, and have not repeated that mistake again.

    Before you euthanize, you explore every option if there is any sparkle in their eye.
    *Every horse is a self-portrait of the rider....Autograph your work with excellence.*
    Supporting Nokotas www.nokotahorse.org
    Lipizzan's rock! http://rigitta.blogspot.com/



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Yeah, the "likely untreatable" part chaps my butt, too. Probably more like, "likely the owner doesn't feel like paying for it".

    I can think about 10 other reasons why they said that other than your conclusion, which is a logical one, but no facts support it.

    If you buy a horse, and are in a boarding situation, and can only have one horse, and you want to ride....it sucks when that horse becomes permanently disabled. Sure you might be able to pay for the horse's care and treatment, but there goes the dream.
    *Every horse is a self-portrait of the rider....Autograph your work with excellence.*
    Supporting Nokotas www.nokotahorse.org
    Lipizzan's rock! http://rigitta.blogspot.com/



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMurray View Post
    I can think about 10 other reasons why they said that other than your conclusion, which is a logical one, but no facts support it.

    If you buy a horse, and are in a boarding situation, and can only have one horse, and you want to ride....it sucks when that horse becomes permanently disabled. Sure you might be able to pay for the horse's care and treatment, but there goes the dream.
    Yes, it sure does suck. We had a farrier disaster this summer. No horses have been rideable since June. They're finally getting back into condition.

    My boarder had two. One a 28 year old pony (now retired with us) and a mustang who was to be his replacement. The mustang was treated for EPM and relapsed last summer. Originally, she was going to rehome him before the relapse if she found a suitable home (he had residual balance issues)...from my understanding, it would have been a long term lease AND she was going to pay for his supplements. No takers. He was a sweetheart, got along with everyone, very mellow, very in your pocket. The perfect horse for someone who just wanted a pet. And he was pasture sound...compensated for the EPM caused deficits very well.


    Then he relapsed. She did the responsible thing. She boarded him with us for as long as he had the sparkle in his eye. When that was gone, and he started to have problems standing for the farrier and picking his feet, it was time. And she made the decision.

    Flatly, there is no more dangerous horse than a horse with EPM (or with any serious neuro issue). You just don't know (nor do they) how they are going to react or be able to control their bodies. It's not a situation for an inexperienced handler or owner. We got to the point where I was the only one who handled him. I kept to a strict routine, so he knew what to expect and I knew what his limitations were and how they changed, day by day.

    Sometimes the right thing is just to let them go. We don't believe horses understand the concept future...just the here and now. Better a week too early than a minute too late.

    Responsible horses owners, like my boarder, take care of their own.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #20
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    Oct. 31, 2001
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by JMurray View Post
    I can think about 10 other reasons why they said that other than your conclusion, which is a logical one, but no facts support it.
    Hey, I'm going on what the ad says:
    horse "has been diagnosed with EPM and likely untreatable". Now, I don't claim to have had contact with every equine vet in the universe, but I can say with reasonable certainty that "likely untreatable" is not an official diagnosis. IME, if the horse has EPM, he's either treatable with a reasonable chance to recover, or treatable, but with little chance of recovery. Never heard a vet say that one isn't treatable. The variable is the likelihood of success.

    And, as much as I do laud the person trying to place the horse, she isn't doing it any favors. The owner needs to either step up and euthanize the horse, or treat it; not make it someone else's problem. Especially if it's only "likely untreatable".

    If you buy a horse, and are in a boarding situation, and can only have one horse, and you want to ride....it sucks when that horse becomes permanently disabled. Sure you might be able to pay for the horse's care and treatment, but there goes the dream.
    And your point is?!?!? Maybe you missed the part that, when you buy a horse, you're responsible for its care and welfare? "Dreams" don't figure into the equation.

    I'm betting there's not a single person on these boards that's owned more than one horse, that hasn't had one become permanently disabled. It's the chance you take when you buy a horse. You buy insurance, you find a nice place to board ( not that I've had much luck with that), and you mitigate the risks to the horse's soundness as much as possible. Sometimes it's not enough, as with the horse in question. But it is never acceptable for a horse owner to dump an animal because it's "disabled".
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



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