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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2010
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    Franconia NH
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    419

    Default Horse show judges helping each other out

    So what would you do if anything if you were standing right with your well known trainer and the judge of the show told my trainer that he will help out his horses in the class as much as he can. My trainer acted like it was no big deal but that he appreciated it. That seemed wrong to me? This happened a long time ago, has anything every happened to anybody else like that that they will admit



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2003
    Location
    Aiken,SC
    Posts
    552

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    Yes. Happened to DH, but the opposite. The judge was helping another person. They are friends and co-own the horse. Hubby was so upset that he handed me the reins and said he will not show again. Just happen not to long ago. Hoping he will change his mind.
    I'm so busy.....I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.

    Alright put your big girl panties on and deal with it!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2005
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,820

    Default

    Surely you don't think this is unusual? Of course it's wrong, but politics has always been a part of horse shows and always will be. The only way around it is to show in timed events such as jumpers or barrels. It's this reason that I'm polite and friendly even to trainers/exhibitors I'm not crazy about- you never know where your next sale could come from.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2003
    Location
    Aiken,SC
    Posts
    552

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    No its not unusual but it is wrong. There are so many young competitors and others that have reached the end of their rope, and why just for a ribbon. If and when I lose I want to know I have lost because the other horse was better not because the other rider has better connections. To be honest, this is one of the main reasons that I barrel race. I have to beat a clock, not someone's connections. Hubby is a seasoned rider and competitor and had the ride of his life, and all that beat him was connections. Everyone was shocked when he did not win the class. He hugged his mare and told her he was sorry and then told me he was done showing. He was going to work her on cows for pleasure and that was it. If it can affect him like that what about someone who is just getting into the horse show scene?
    I'm so busy.....I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.

    Alright put your big girl panties on and deal with it!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2010
    Posts
    239

    Default

    This is something new?

    My BO says you can always tell who's going to win the classes at the shows she goes to.

    It'll be the women that left the bar on the arm of a judge the night before.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2008
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Many years ago as a preteen/teenager when I was doing hunters, my barn went to a series of shows in and around Camden, SC. No idea if they're still being held, I think they were B or C shows? Anyway, the trainer I was riding with at the time (shall remain nameless!), initially unbeknownst to me when I was younger, had the judges and organizers of that little circuit in. her. pocket. She always went to register us in herself, so they'd know who her students and horses were. Her girls always jumped first, always went in the ring first for flat classes, and always placed in the ribbons, despite blatant mistakes--wrong leads, wrong diagonals, knocked rails, screwed-up distances, etc. etc.

    It wasn't until I left her barn, and started riding for other people, that I realized the extent to which we'd all basically just been buying ribbons (funny how she ONLY took us to those particular shows), and, worse, the fact that I hadn't learned to actually RIDE despite all the shiny blues on my wall. So I went and catch-rode random rank greenies at a Western sales barn for a few years instead. Got some shiny black-and-blues, rather than shiny blues, and became a better rider for it.

    I ran into her at a tack store a couple of months ago, gaggle of teenage girls in Tailored Sportsmans in tow. I'd like to believe that things have changed...but some things never do.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 21, 2005
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    2,453

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    I don't let it bother me most of the time. My daughters have been taught from the start that as long as they come out of the ring happy with their ride and their horse's performance they are winners. They have had rides where they weren't placed and should have been, but hasn't everyone?

    Funniest (or most horrible) example I have of judge favoritism came from a show we went to in the Fall. The judge hated my oldest daughter and her horse for some reason, but liked the youngest. We don't know why, but it was pretty obvious. During their trail class my oldest had a really decent ride, not perfect, but pretty good. My youngest went in on a horse that had never done trail. They demolished the entire course. It looked like a tornado had gone through it when they came out of the ring. She placed, the oldest didn't. We just laughed because it was so absurd it wasn't worth getting upset about.
    Lapeer ... a small drinking town with a farming problem.
    Proud Closet Canterer!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    14,190

    Default

    A few years back, a woman I know had to suddenly pull her horse from competition, when he came up unsound at the show. One of the women there commented to her that "it was a pity, because you were scheduled to win this time." She didn't show much, after that.
    Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past - let us accept our own responsibility for the future.
    Kennedy



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2006
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPatterson View Post
    Many years ago as a preteen/teenager when I was doing hunters, my barn went to a series of shows in and around Camden, SC. No idea if they're still being held, I think they were B or C shows? Anyway, the trainer I was riding with at the time (shall remain nameless!), initially unbeknownst to me when I was younger, had the judges and organizers of that little circuit in. her. pocket. She always went to register us in herself, so they'd know who her students and horses were. Her girls always jumped first, always went in the ring first for flat classes, and always placed in the ribbons, despite blatant mistakes--wrong leads, wrong diagonals, knocked rails, screwed-up distances, etc. etc.

    Oh man... I did the Camden circuits for YEARS and I bet I could guess who you're talking about. It's hilarious, looking back on those show days thinking - OMG, really? People got away with THAT MUCH?

    But the wall'o'ribbons looks kind of impressive, right?



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Location
    Guthrie, OK
    Posts
    1,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by my buddy's blue View Post
    Yes. Happened to DH, but the opposite. The judge was helping another person. They are friends and co-own the horse. Hubby was so upset that he handed me the reins and said he will not show again. Just happen not to long ago. Hoping he will change his mind.
    I sure hope they were riding HC since judges cannot judge horses they have any ownership in.
    Check the rules about conflict of interest regarding judges. Pretty simple and straightforward.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    6,002

    Default

    Let's see, I've had a judge tell my trainer that Trainer owed Judge for "letting" Trainer's Amateur (me!) win the day before...I won't get into what was owed, just know it was not HR!

    Also have had a judge send the show manager down to inquire about whether a horse I was riding was for sale. For some reason, this one bugs me even more. It was mid-show, not like it was at the end of the week. After that, I kept thinking, will horse do better (because Judge likes it and wants us to sell it), or worse (because Judge wants to buy it and maybe that will lower the price or make us inclined to sell)? It wasn't my horse, so that just added to my nerves over riding him -- probably the nicest horse I've ever ridden.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2010
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,561

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    While somethings are possible in the cutting, reining and reined cowhorse world it is harder to have this sort of thing going on. Multiple judges and the top and bottom scores are tossed and the remainder averaged....makes it hard for a judge to skew the numbers by much. Plus there is "instant replay" of sorts if a rider truly feels he's been badly scored. Some of it is subjective ("expression", "courage" and such) but with this system of judging one judge can't mess things too much even if he wants to. OTOH it does help to have a well recognized trainer doing the riding as I think there is a subconcious thing of "well, hmm, XYZ is riding and he never rides bad horses" that could give your horse the benefit of the doubt on a questionable call and it might mean an extra, possibly unearned, 1/2 point here and there.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
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    2,209

    Default

    It's depressing to me that the individuals would be so open about it. And everyone's subsequent posts are depressing too.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2008
    Posts
    7,259

    Default

    There was a local schooling show we used to go to; when we would show at this one particular barn it was amazing (not) how the owner/trainer's clients would always do so well there - and not any of the other shows.. sometimess it's blatant obvious other times it's just bad judging in both cases it's bad judges.

    I think my worst experience was at this one show - it was "A" rated. The judge had pinned the class before we ever entered the ring.. the least he could have done is given us the satisfaction of acting like he was judging, he didn't even bother to take the time to even look at us...I was really tempted to go to the sec. stand and ask for my $ back... I wasn't so much upset that we didn't win as much as the insult it was not to even look our direction. Spent the entire class talking to someone. Needless to say i would never ever show in front of that person ever again nor recommend him as a judge



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2003
    Location
    The birthplace of Jesse James
    Posts
    8,971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saddlebum122 View Post
    This is something new?

    My BO says you can always tell who's going to win the classes at the shows she goes to.

    It'll be the women that left the bar on the arm of a judge the night before.

    ROFL..not in hunter jumper land.....
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2003
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    6,193

    Default

    Unfortantely it happens everywhere, I was at a show a number of years ago and the judge was actually sitting up in the same area specatators were! Walked in to see him turn away and "chat" to the barn owner everytime a horse came into the ring that he didn't like "oh I've already placed this class so I don't need to watch this one go"!!

    Unfortunately one time he said this with of one of the trainers from the girls barn who was in the ring, you can bet he watched every single round of everybody's after that little comment!!!
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2009
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    ROFL..not in hunter jumper land.....
    Have seen (many years ago) a young-ish judge consistently award the blue to a girl he had a serious crush on. I don't know if he thought the favoritism would get him a date (it didn't) or if it was just the fact that (in the flat classes) he couldn't tear his eyes off her!

    To be fair - the object of his affections was a good rider. Nobody really had an issue with her taking the eq ribbons, but when her mare won the hack there were a few muttered objections. The mare wasn't an awful mover, but she was not by any stretch of the imagination a hack winner.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    365

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    Oh gosh,
    This was prior to my dressage days when I did saddleseat. I remember when I was younger and was staying at a hotel with my mother, we realized that we were one room down from one of the judges. It was a male judge and I am sorry to say he had quite a few female vistors that night that happened to be trainers. My mother was a smoker so she saw some of who was going in and out of the room.She was just thankful it wasn't OUR trainer that paid him a visit. She wanted to scratch and go home but its not like we could have gotten a refund so I showed anyways.
    It\'s not the color of the ribbon that counts,but the color of the ride.
    Oh My!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Location
    Guthrie, OK
    Posts
    1,606

    Default

    I used to be in the Morgan world and saw judges pin classes as horses (and trainers) were coming in the ring.
    That is one reason I went to eventing. Not perfect but better.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    365

    Default

    Ditto to above statement...my experiences in saddleseat and HJ led me to only want to do an event where I recieved a score. Not perfect but most of the time is more acurate the maybe we want to admit
    It\'s not the color of the ribbon that counts,but the color of the ride.
    Oh My!



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