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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2008
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    69

    Angry Copyright photos being used without permission

    I just received my 2011 International Stallion Guide and was surprised when I opened the front page cover and saw a photo of one of our fillies being used without our permission to promote her sire. What's interesting is that the stallion owner had the courtesy of putting a copyright symbol under several photos including for one of the foals but did not return the same courtesy for our photo.

    I wrote an e-mail to the stallion owner (twice) asking her to rectify the situation in a professional and timely manner and have not received any replies.

    So, if you were in the same situation, what would you do? Any other ideas? Has this happened to you before? What did you do?
    Last edited by SHWarmblood; Mar. 29, 2011 at 10:36 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2010
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
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    Personally, I feel honored when stallion owners use pictures of my foals to represent their stallion!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 13, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    1,238

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    Maybe it is just me, but I would be flattered if someone used one of our foals in an add. I agree the right thing would be to ask first but unless you are a professional photographer or the picture is by one I don't see it as an atrocity



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Posts
    4,539

    Default

    But how diffIcult would it have been for the stallion owner to just ASK? Common courtesy.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2008
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Don't get me wrong, I would be flattered too if she had asked to use the photo and gave credit to the photographer or our site. We just received a call from Warmbloods Today who are putting an article in their magazine for our stallion, but they called and asked permission to do so. I am incredibly flattered for that, but what caught me off-guard was the stallion owner using the photo without even the courtesy of asking.
    Last edited by SHWarmblood; Mar. 29, 2011 at 10:37 AM.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
    Posts
    2,656

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHWarmblood View Post
    I just received my 2011 International Stallion Guide and was shocked when I opened the front page cover and saw a photo of our 2009 filly, Cirque du Soliel, being used without our permission to promote her sire. What's interesting is that the stallion owner had the courtesy of putting a copyright symbol under several photos including for one of the foals but did not return the same courtesy for our photo.

    Our copyright policy is on our website and many clients and SIM users have been using our photos correctly for years, but the hoops you have to jump through to get any sort of resolution for photo theft is pretty intensive and resource exhausting.

    I contacted the International Stallion Guide to see if they would help but they are claiming third party service provider and staying out of it.

    I wrote an e-mail to the stallion owner (twice) asking her to rectify the situation in a professional and timely manner and have not received any replies.

    So, if you were in the same situation, what would you do? Any other ideas? Has this happened to you before? What did you do?
    Pick up the phone and call them. E-mail is perhaps not the best way to communicate with them!
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2004
    Location
    Lancaster, PA, USA
    Posts
    7,516

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    while it is *not* a good way to do business (not asking before using) I would really only have a serious problem with it if the photo was taken by a professional photographer that did have fees that have to be paid for copyright usage. And in any case photo credits should be given.....financial issues aside. I have some lovely photos of Boomer sitting in a drawer from Devon. They were never used in an ad because the copyright usage fees for ads was just obscene. To me the photographer shot himself in the foot on that one....a reasonable usage fee they would have made some money. An obscene fee....I (and many others) just said "no thanks". The SO of our recent foals has the pics of them on their website....which is just fine with me. For one the SO took the photos at inspection time....so they really are the photographer....but that issue aside I have no issue with the theory of someone showing off my foals as long as it is a good picture. If you are a professional photographer that would have charged a usage for the photo I would request that of the SO........but in the end if they made your foal look good.........no harm done....it is unprofessional but not worth any legal hassle. There are still folks out there that are not good with email or have high filter settings so I would call or send a registered letter if you want to be sure the message was rec'd.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
    Posts
    1,803

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    Yes it is flattering but for me it would be a matter of principle and reflects on the over all integrity or lack there of of the stallion owner.

    I would try the phone if that doesn't work, then I would send a registered letter requesting that they acknowledge where the picture came from or remove it.

    Dalemma



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2008
    Posts
    69

    Default

    I agree, a call would be a good next step - I haven't spoken to her in 3 years now.... It's been a week since I sent the e-mail so I think enough time has gone by for another follow up.

    Otherwise, sending a registered letter is an option but I'm not looking for monetary compensation. Just maybe a "Sorry I used your photo without your permission, I'll put a credit under the photo for any future use" kind of response.
    Last edited by SHWarmblood; Mar. 29, 2011 at 10:38 AM.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2010
    Location
    Nevada
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    2,561

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    I've begun offering mare owners a promotional page on my site (unlimited pages/space so doesn't cost me anything) for their foals. I will be getting permission (and giving credit) on photos used. Mare owners so far have been very positive about this as it will put their foal out there on my site as well as their own (if they have one) and if it includes the mare in the shot potential buyers would then have a look at both sire and dam. I've also allowed mare owners to post a shot of my stallion that sired their foal on their website for the same reason. With a soft market any free advertizing works for me.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,942

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    I would be flattered. I am friends with the owner of the stallion of two babies, and she knows I would like having them posted on her site. Technically, yes a copyright issue, but just because you have a right to be upset doesn't mean you have to be. Now you have publicly gotten the stallion owner involved in this very public forum, and I think she has more reason to be angry with you than you at her.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    343

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    Flattery aside, but I would be livid for not having the courtesy to simply ask AND to have the gall to steal my photos therefore, Id seriously consider copyright infringement charges.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2008
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    1,751

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    Before you get too angry and start burning bridges, there are a few pieces of information that I would try to get, in your place.

    1. Is it possible this was a photo taken by the stallion owner, or some agent of the stallion owner at a public event?

    2. Is it possible this was a photo taken by a professional with whom the stallion owner may have made arrangements?

    3. Is it possible that the stallion owner made at least a reasonable attempt to contact you first?

    --

    The answers to these questions would definitely be worth a few phone calls/voice mails to me. Email is never a guaranteed form of communication.

    Also, you kind of jumped right off the deep end by posting all the info required to identify the stallion owner, when there are still multiple perfectly reasonable scenarios available to explain this. In the end, it amounts to a courtesy "violation"...at very worst a copyright violation that is kind of rampant in advertising everywhere (use of website photos.) That kind of violation is so prevalent in North America, it is virtually an accepted norm at this point. I do not feel that this universally taints someone's business ethics, particularly since you apparently already satisfactorily concluded a contract arrangement with them.
    Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    633

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    Quote Originally Posted by Langfuhr View Post
    Id seriously consider copyright infringement charges.
    Really?!?!?!?! Wow - we really do live in a litigious society. It's not like the pictures were used for negative things or the OP was damaged in any way due to the use. If the pictures were taken by a professional photographer, then let the photographer take it up with the SO, if they have a problem.

    On two separate occasions I have walked into stores and found cards that had pictures of my horses gracing the cover. It never occurred to me to go after the photographer.....

    Instead, I was flattered and bought all the cards



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2004
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    Still here ~ not yet there
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    6,420

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
    Personally, I feel honored when stallion owners use pictures of my foals to represent their stallion!
    Totally this! I think the OP might be missing the Forest for the Trees...



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 4, 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in the Southwest
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ticofuzzy View Post
    Really?!?!?!?! Wow - we really do live in a litigious society. It's not like the pictures were used for negative things or the OP was damaged in any way due to the use. If the pictures were taken by a professional photographer, then let the photographer take it up with the SO, if they have a problem.

    On two separate occasions I have walked into stores and found cards that had pictures of my horses gracing the cover. It never occurred to me to go after the photographer.....

    Instead, I was flattered and bought all the cards
    It's called intellectual property theft, and is a serious problem. OP, try calling, failing that, contact a lawyer to write them a strongly worded cease and desist letter.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,421

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    As a photographer, I would be pissed. Not only do you steal my photo, but you don't even give me credit for taking it. The SO has no idea what deal the owner has with the photographer either. It may have been something along the lines of "no usage fee if you only use the photo electronically on your website" and now it's in a publication, with no credit, and no payment for usage. This is part of why there will soon be no horse show photographers. I find the whole attitude of "everyone does it anyway, so it's basically an accepted practice now" pretty disturbing.
    Rhode Islands are red;
    North Hollands are blue.
    Sorry my thoroughbreds
    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2005
    Posts
    1,238

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    This is stealing! I would be very upset....I don't care how "good" the motive!!!!
    Some websites have "locked" photos which you can't remove from the site---I don't know how its done but its a good idea.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2011
    Posts
    219

    Default

    I think you've taken a leap right off the deep end, here.

    This didn't harm you in any way. In fact, you may have benefited from it (prior to this posting, anyway).

    Sure, the stallion owner SHOULD have asked you, but really, you're making a mountain out of a molehill here and frankly, I don't think it reflects well on you. For all you know, the stallion owner e-mailed you and it went into your spam folder.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2003
    Location
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Posts
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    I would ask for copyright clarification in the next issue of the publication.

    Of course, this may or may not work. I once had a stallion owner claim, in the annual AHS stallion book, that my colt had been named top colt at his inspection. I was horrified because my colt was branded in an outreach situation and had never been to an official inspection. He was the ONLY foal of his year at the branding.

    At the time, I was trying to sell him and worried that a prospective buyer would think I was trying to sugar-coat his accomplishments. I called the AHS, but they refused to print a correction. The misinformation wasn't corrected until the following year's stallion book came out.
    Kendra
    Runningwater Warmbloods & Mare Station

    Home of SPS Diorella (Donnerhall/ Akut), EMC What Fun (Wolkentanz I/ Lauries Crusador), and EMC Raleska (Rascalino/ Warkant) 'Like' us on Facebook



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