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  1. #1

    Default Jumping the rushing horse: Is going in slow a good idea? Update!

    As many know at this point, I have a TB mare that is coming back into work after a couple years off. We're almost up to the six month mark, so she's put on quite a bit of muscle. I was just admiring her today for the way her topline has come up.

    Like many TBs I've known, she gets excited and wants to rush fences. Sometimes she even wants to rush and jump poles on the ground. The current advice is to go slow on the approach. Very slow. We've even spent some time walking the fences. She hops over them and canters away at whatever gait she's in.

    I'm becoming concerned, since the slow approach doesn't seem to help with her charging after the fences. She has also started to skitter or swing her butt to the side when she starts to anticipate in place of the charging. I'd rather come in with a more natural rhythm, particularly with trot poles since she's going to need to have a big step to make it through them. Coming in so slow feels like there's no forward and of course she's going to jump big. At the same time, if she rushes fences, they're not jumped well. I understand the logic of what I'm being asked to do, keeping her under control and not letting her charge, but at the same time I feel like the other side of the fence is suffering.

    Please keep in mind that I am working with a trainer and that I am only doing fences under two foot, mostly cross rails. I'm just looking for other view points after all of the great visuals I got to help slow my body down (the image of how Phillip Dutton jumps combined with imagining charging downhill to a square oxer seems to have helped a lot with keeping me from snapping my body). Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by Catie79; Feb. 4, 2011 at 10:13 AM.
    http://thoughtfulequestrian.blogspot.com - My Ventures Into Eventing



  2. #2
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    Coming to a fence slow and underpowered is not going to help you any. We jump a lot of fences slow, especially trot fences, but out of a trot that has a lot of engagement and power behind. The horse has to be carrying itself, staying in a rhythm, and engaged.

    I'd take a page out of the hunter training book here, and not allow the horse to jump unless it is quiet, not pulling, and not rushing. As soon as the horse starts to pull/rush towards the fence, quietly halt, or quietly circle away. It needs to stay on the same rhythm all the way to the fence, without yanking your arms out to make it happen.

    For rushing on the landing side, two exercises. One, halt in a straight line. I use this one all the time with horses who rush- once they expect to halt, they tend to slow their trajectory way down. If you are jumping down a line, halt in the middle of the line a couple of times before jumping down the full line.

    The other I've seen for rushing, although not one I do myself, was in a Don Sachey clinic. He would have the rider turn as soon as they landed, going in a different direction each time. After a few rounds of this, the horse slowed down to wait to be told where to go. I could see this one backfiring, although it worked in the circumstance I witnessed.



  3. #3
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    I agree with wanderlust completely. Going slowly may actually increase the horse's rushing, as the horse may feel it does not have the power to get itself over the jumps, or as you mentioned, it will over-jump to counter-act being under-powered, with the end result being similar or worse to rushing in the first place.

    The other thing that I find makes a huge difference is insisting that the horse learn to go on no contact. It should be able to canter a circle with loops in the reins (practice without jumps first) and not speed up. If you are not able to do that, you will not be able to successfully keep a rhythm to and from a jump when your horse has an excuse to speed up.

    The above is also useful for riders who may not realize that their horse is rushing as a result of being held back. Many sensitive TBs hate the feeling of being 'throttled down' and instead prefer no contact and will slow right down when you take the contact away. From there you do trot poles, canter poles, cavaletti, and grids, and slowly start to re-establish contact until about 3 strides before the fence, no contact until 3 strides after landing - many times the horse is quite happy to keep a rhythm and will even break to trot on its own when it is not scared. (Scared of the two things that often happen to rushers, being snatched in the mouth upon landing, and having the rider come back too early in the air or sit too early or heavily on landing. Both of those create a tendency in the horse to land inverted and to scoot, so it's a vicious cycle.) While you are working on no contact, of course you have to be alert to making adjustments for straightness, but try to make them tactfully. Also grab some mane a couple strides before take-off to force yourself to let go and allow the horse its freedom over the jump.

    Good luck and let us know if you have already tried any of the above.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    The other thing that I find makes a huge difference is insisting that the horse learn to go on no contact. It should be able to canter a circle with loops in the reins (practice without jumps first) and not speed up. If you are not able to do that, you will not be able to successfully keep a rhythm to and from a jump when your horse has an excuse to speed up.

    Great posts wanderlust and Blugal. The above point is extremely important with this type of horse. When a horse wants to go go go, the more you hold, the more bottled up energy you have. Holding a horse that you know wants to get quick is a hard instinct to resist though!

    I like to work on the flat until the horse is staying in a nice rhythm and in self carriage. If you soften and they speed up, you were holding and creating tension.

    When that's going well approach a jump in a nice working trot, and try this exercise. Wait until your horse sights in on the jump, and if you feel a tension or rushing reaction, don't grab the horses mouth, but smoothly go onto a circle, and keep focusing on the relaxation and self carriage of the trot. Make sure your circle brings you right back onto the line of the jump again. And this time when your horse focuses on the jump and gets excited, smoothly circle the other way, to make a figure eight. Keep repeating with lots of reward (always extra reward for the tense horse), and you will find that you will be able to get closer and closer to the jump on soft reins without the tension surfacing. As your horse will now be waiting to see whether you are circling right or left. There will be less anticipation of the jump. Be patient, you may have to repeat over and over and over. Again, with lots of reward. Eventually your horse will stay quiet to the base of the jump and you will find that he then lands relaxed as well.

    Other exercises that work well in conjunction with this were mentioned above. Halting after the jump can be great - OR it can make the tension worse, depending on how it's handled. Never stop roughly, causing pain and fear in the horse. This is punishing to them, and this type of horse will only get MORE tense by that type of correction. The horse can NOT think of the halt as punishment. Instead, make the halt after the fence simply another exercise. Halt smoothly with no emotion, no matter how much your horse is rushing. And then reward and stand there for a while, so it's relaxing.

    Turning right or left immediately on landing works as well. But just like with halting, you have to be smooth and sympathetic to the horse as you turn, so that the exercise settles them down, instead of winding them up even more.

    Good luck!




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    Last edited by lstevenson; Feb. 4, 2011 at 05:18 PM.



  5. #5
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    I did a ton of pole exercises with a horse I used to lease who rushed. I put x number of poles in front of a jump (either trot or canter), went through until he went through with a consistent rhythm and then we added another fence (he loves to jump) as long as we stayed in a nice easy rhythm. If we rushed the other fence we halted, circled away or added poles. He can now do a nice Hunter type course as long as the rider just "sits" there and doesn't bother him unnecessarily. If a rider gets in his face, then out comes the giraffe and speed demon.



  6. #6
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    I find that with a lot of horses who rush, they are often ridden well under their rhythm and feel they MUST rush or charge to have the right impulsion. So, your inclination to let her come at a more natural rhythm is not wrong. And while there are times coming in slow with a quick horse is good (into a decent sized gymnastic, for instance) crawling to fences on a rusher is only going to make them feel the need to rush more.

    The exercises the others mentioned are all good ones. With most rushers I feel the key is to keep them guessing. Halting, turning one way or the other, etc, etc, etc all helps get them to slow their brain down and start paying attention to what you have to say. Also, gymnastics, gymnastics, gymnastics, especially if they have bounces in them and use placing rails and "killer Vs" liberally. It's amazing how much a rusher will start to pay attention to you when they jump through some challenging gymnastics.

    Another thing we will often do with rushers and over-bold horses is have a bounce or double bounce set up. If they rush something, we'll keep going and canter through that once or twice. That will often make them start thinking! The key with that (which sometimes can require a little guts on the rider's part) is to let them rush down to THAT so they can learn from their mistake.

    Also, be sure your canter is very good quality, adjustable, and STRAIGHT. So, that means lots of work on the flat. Don't let her go to a jump if she is turning herself inside out and fishtailing back and forth. Make a circle and improve the canter and be sure you have her straight.

    Other things to think about are: what is your body and hands doing (obviously you're already thinking about it)? So many horses "rush" away from the fence because their riders are quick and exaggerated with their release, flinging their hands and shoulders to the horse's ears, a la bad hunter rider. The horse rushes to keep up with the massive change in their rider's balance. Also, is the horse properly bitted? Too much bit can actually cause some horses to rush and/or charge MORE (it goes along the same lines as riding them too slowly). If you're jumping with a substantial bit, consider something less or try jumping in your dressage bit and see what it's like. And, last, is the horse comfortable? Seemingly sound horses will rush for a whole host of reasons. I would say that if you try some of these things and you're still not seeing improvement or things are getting worse/new issues are coming up, you may consider a good lameness exam.



  7. #7
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    I skimmed your post so this could be a very-not applicable reply, my old horse used to rush a bunch and we figured it was from a lack of confidence and strength so what we did was take him, at a trot, over many many many cross rails and then build them up to verticals and do many many many of those jumps so that he realized that he did not have to rush or go super quickly to be able to jump them. But, like others said, make sure the power is there so they don't stall out or stutter
    T



  8. #8
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    Coming in slow works for some horses, doesn't work for others. My mare was helped by slooowwing the trot each step until we stepped over a tiny crossrail. This was accompanied by halting before the fence on some approaches.

    Pole work/gymnastics also helps. And with an athletic TB you might even try raising the fences to get her to back off. Don't do this if it makes you more tense, though.

    I'm sure you've already thought of this as it's the pat answer, but make sure your horse doesn't have pain, especially foot pain. I think a lot of rushers are "getting it over with" because they are uncomfortable.



  9. #9
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    I found that coming in slow just made my OTTB rush all the more. He was essentially having an anxiety attack that he wouldn't "make it" and felt the need to rush to get over.

    I made sure jumping was never a focused section of our ride. For two weeks (approx 6-8 rides) I only did flat work. I started sneaking in a low jump or pole here and there throughout the ride. We might go by it right next to it, we might jump it. I was gradually able to slow his roll down some.

    Once that happened, I needed to find a way not to rush our lines (I'm a hunter rider). A trainer suggested we canter in, trot out so that I would not be tempted to "chase" for a certain number of strides or "hold" too much for the idea of slowing down and getting the add. By trotting out, it was more about our pace & rhythm than number or length of strides. He began to relax more through lines and we are now able to canter an entire course =]
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  10. #10
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    YB is all over it, as are all the other previous posters.

    My mare used to really rush. Like grab the bit, hang on honey, we're GOING kind of rush. I swear I thought I might never jump anything nicely from the canter without a placing rail.

    I used bounces, double bounces, placing poles, trot poles and canter poles to reinforce coming to and going away from the fence in the same rhythm. I also made sure I was not coming back too soon on her or holding up to the jump.

    The key was to just have poles EVERYWHERE. 3 or 4 10 foot canter rails going to and coming away from a jump. Trot poles up to a jump with a landing rail after. In combinations, striding/placing poles. Always something for them to look at instead of thinking, "Hey - room! Room to run! Whee!"

    You get "Jump! Whee-dag nabbit, a pole. Another one! Another one. Oh, ok, jump! Wheee-dag nabbit, another pole! Sigh. What was I so tense about again?"



  11. #11
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    My TB rushed a lot when we started jumping, mostly I think he was anxious.

    What worked for him was poles going into jumps so he was focusing on them and staying in a rhythm, trotting lots of fences, and letting him figure some of it out himself.

    Make sure you are not inadvertently causing your horse to get quick. I have a friend whose mare always rushes. I watched her jump and she gets tipped forward and then gooses her horse with her heels. While it's important to keep a supporting leg on your horse, she was asking for the rush and then getting upset with the horse. She didn't realize she was doing it until she took a few lessons.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
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  12. #12
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    I'm leaning away from the pain response, because she does jump very nicely at times. Either when we're in a new place, and she's too distracted by everything else to anticipate the jump, or when she's caught off guard by a fence. If I can keep her guessing, it's much better. The problem is when we're doing an exercise in a lesson and she /knows/ what comes next. Then all bets are off. She'll react the same way if she /knows/ the canter transition is coming. Her saddle has been fitted and reflocked. If she keeps fussing, I'll probably have the vet give her a once over, see if there's anything we're missing.

    She's currently jumping in a double jointed loose ring snaffle, but she's very funny about her mouth. When we had her teeth done, it looked like she hadn't had them done in years. She was also ridden in a kimberwicke with the curb chain too tight with her previous rider, and with her low palate, I can only imagine what that port felt like. I have a hackamore for her, and I've jumped her in it before. She's respectful of it, but no fear response. I'm wondering if that would help. Anyone else try that with a sensitive horse?

    I like the pole ideas, I just have to work on the concept that poles are not mini-jumps. She gets it sometimes, but other times she jumps them. She jumped a set of three trot poles last night when someone said 'Go!' at exactly the wrong time. Both of us reacted and instead of trotting through, she jumped. It's almost like she mentally thinks this is what she's supposed to do with poles. I don't want to make excuses for her, but she'll do it so calmly that it makes me think that she's actually trying to do it right. Trot to the pole, hop over, canter away like a total lady.

    I feel like I'm setting her up for complete failure. 90% of all problems are due to the rider, and right now, I feel like I'm bottling her up and then putting her in a situation where she will anticipate and get anxious. I think we need to go back to the drawing board. This is probably as much me venting as anything, but I really appreciate the suggestions. I'll have to start adding more circles to the poles tonight. If I can get her to reliably accept the poles, then we can start adding them to the cross rails. Maybe something like a line of poles, and when she's reliably going through them, raise one as a cross rail.
    http://thoughtfulequestrian.blogspot.com - My Ventures Into Eventing



  13. #13
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    A lot of horses rush when they are out of shape or they are worried. I hate the feeling of a strung-out, rushing horse going toward a fence! So I work a LOT on the canter.

    I spiral in and out on a circle, do simple changes, flying changes, collect, lengthen, make transitions, etc. until I have a nice forward canter. Yes, forward-- but not on the forehand. The reins are short, my hands are lifted, my eyes are up, and my butt is in the saddle. It is a very powerful feeling, that "ready to jump" canter! I feel like the horse could pirouette, do tempi changes, anything I ask. Only when I feel that good canter do I approach a jump on a "rusher".

    If, on the approach, the horse comes unglued or tries to rush, I go back to work until I have the canter I want, and try again. I rarely jump lines with a rusher, and I hate gymnastics for these horses; circles, bending lines, and serpentines help keep the horse rocking back rather than falling on the forehand.

    I also don't give a very big release over the fence on a rushing horse, kind of keep the shoulders more open and use a more following hand. That way I can help the horse land in a good canter and be prepared for the next fence.

    Jumping an X or a pole on a circle as many times as it takes, using an opening rein, is a good confidence-builder. The circle keeps the horse from rushing and the opening rein keeps the rider's hands active throughout the exercise. If he listens to your half-halt in front the fence or pole, pat him and let him walk so he has a chance to think about what a good boy he is.

    Rushing = more (hard) canterwork; Half-Halting = relax and get petted.
    Leadline is a legitimate reason to have children.



  14. #14
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    We did some little gridwork with my horse- he wasn't a terrible rusher but he had steeplechased and would just get quick. The grid backed him off naturally and it also helped me to remember to keep my leg on him when I wanted to take it off because of the rushing. He is FABULOUS now- no rushing at all and is very comfortable jumping from the base.

    We started out with the grid set up and went through it as just poles on the ground. We gradually raised them to jumps one at a time and let him figure it out himself. I just pretty much guided him through as straight as possible, didn't worry about much else. I think we started with a grid that was a cross rail, one stride, bounce, one stride oxer although I could be mistaken. We never went above 2'-2'3.

    We do more complicated and higher grids now- again a constant reminder for me to keep my leg on and my upper body back!

    I think he would have been very tense and upset had I tried to hold him back the whole time- like you said, he would have gotten bottled up pretty badly.

    MTA: another good one that I use fairly frequently is to do 3 square oxers one stride apart with a pole in the middle so they are "bouncing" the pole. There is also a pole a "bounce" out from the first oxer. You canter into this.



  15. #15
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    Great responses, and something else very simple you could try is cantering a 20 meter circle with a pole on the ground. Work on keeping the bend and the rhythm the same on the circle and not making a big deal about the pole when you get to it (i.e. don't act like it's a jump, just let the horse sort out where her feet should go and stay very quiet). Once the horse can do this quietly, add another pole and circle somewhere else in the arena and connect the two. I know it sounds super simple, but this has worked like a charm for me on similar horses. Once they figure out that you are going insist on bend and a nice steady rhythm, the pole ends up not being a big deal and you can carry the confidence over to jumping exercises. I do this with every horse I ride while warming up for a jump school to reinforce how I want them to go.

    Another thing to focus on is getting her to respond to your body position. Are you in 2point for most of your jumping or do you sit in the saddle? The horse should learn to listen to your upper body position, so if you square your shoulders, stretch up and back a bit, and close your knee and thigh around her, she should slow down. This can be worked on by doing lots of downward transitions and strengthening your core. Try to use as little hand as possible. Good luck, I have had these issues with horses in the past so I feel your pain



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catie79 View Post
    I like the pole ideas, I just have to work on the concept that poles are not mini-jumps. She gets it sometimes, but other times she jumps them. She jumped a set of three trot poles last night when someone said 'Go!' at exactly the wrong time. Both of us reacted and instead of trotting through, she jumped. It's almost like she mentally thinks this is what she's supposed to do with poles. I don't want to make excuses for her, but she'll do it so calmly that it makes me think that she's actually trying to do it right. Trot to the pole, hop over, canter away like a total lady.
    First off, don't be so hard on yourself. We all have our issues! If you weren't riding her, she wouldn't be jumping at all, so think of yourself as the gatekeeper to fun activities for her!

    My mare did the same as yours in re: poles, and viewed each and every pole as a fun jumping opportunity.

    1 pole: 2 foot jump
    2 poles: ditch
    3 poles: liverpool!

    I seldom trot into less than 4 poles for trot poles unless I'm trying to make a point. When she was still very rush-y, I didn't do it period. I wasn't going to set us up for that wrong answer. Don't make it an option. Walk through first, then trot. She likely won't jump 4-5 poles, and if she does, keep adding poles until she gets the right idea. When she does, many, many pats and fawning. Remove a pole. Go again.



  17. #17
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    I am going to share a story: I had a draftX mare I used to ride. She wasn't the most athletic beast in the world but was more than capable of what we were asking. We did a TON of poles on the ground and low jumps with the halt afterward. She was really improving but still had moments of "oh my gosh i have to go really fast if im going to make it over that giant 2ft vertical" Well around that time I had signed up to take a clinic with Kim Severson. we were doing a fair amount of gridwork and the first time through the mare plowed down the line ignoring me etc... after trying to get her attention Kim had me come back through and instructed me to halt in the middle of the grid in a 1stride section...First time I halt halfway over the jump we are supposed to stop in from of..oops. Come again..well as I turn the corner I see Kim standing in the middle of the grid in front of the jump I didnt manage to stop in front of...my thoght "OH my god Im about to run down an Olympic medalist" well since i really didnt want that to happen I made sure i stopped, And kim smartly moved to the side as I got closer... But by the end of that lesson the mare was being the most careful organized jumper I had ever seen her be! it was fabulous. (I believe someone may have mentioned both of the above exercises but I found the very helpful) Good Luck and be patient. And I would hold off on showing bc I have found if I am having a problem at home it will not be fixed by competing and the added stress will likely create a bigger issue..



  18. #18
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    I didn't think of adding more poles so she had to figure it out. I'll have to round up poles tonight.

    @ sarah88: I just cracked up at work. I had the same moment while grooming for someone and her honking huge draft cross decided to freak out while being walked to the trailers. I was so busy trying to keep him from hurting anyone that I almost missed the part where he pivoted and almost smacked into Phillip Dutton who was riding past. All I could was 'that horse is probably worth more than what I make in a year!'.

    Now I just need to find someone willing to step in front of Fiona while she's in supercharged mode . . . I don't expect I'll get a lot of takers.
    http://thoughtfulequestrian.blogspot.com - My Ventures Into Eventing



  19. #19
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    I feel like I'm setting her up for complete failure. 90% of all problems are due to the rider, and right now, I feel like I'm bottling her up and then putting her in a situation where she will anticipate and get anxious. I think we need to go back to the drawing board. This is probably as much me venting as anything, but I really appreciate the suggestions. I'll have to start adding more circles to the poles tonight. If I can get her to reliably accept the poles, then we can start adding them to the cross rails. Maybe something like a line of poles, and when she's reliably going through them, raise one as a cross rail.
    I hear ya- My sweet horse rushes only because I get super excited and push at the last second. Totally my fault. Throw in the occasional pull... ugh.

    It's a slow process but things that help her are getting a better rider on her who will just sit and do nothing (or make the correct decision) so she can get good mileage. Plus I trot jumps all the time. Small crossrails at a slow,medium and more forward trot. I treat them like they are a pole on the ground or I do the beginner rider 2-point and grab mane.

    Another nifty exercise is to walk up to a pole, the quietly halt so the horse is straddling the pole. front legs on one side, hind on the other. Make it a kind, quiet halt and say whoa. If you don't get it quite right, that is OK. Just stay quiet. Then you trot poles and do the same. Eventually you might either trot over the pole or do the halt- keep it changed up. For her, this got her brain going that we don't always end up going over a pole, sometimes we stop. So she started listening for my leg in front of jumps and obstacles. Much easier to add some soft leg and say OK go on a horse that likes to go.



  20. #20
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    Interesting about her mouth and her previous bitting experiences. She may have some baggage that will take some doing to overcome. The hackamore is an interesting idea. I would also lean towards something plastic, possibly even a straight bar, like a Nathe or a Duo. I know lots of little TBs, especially little TB mares who go really in plastic bits, especially the straight bars. If her mouth is little with a low palate, she might really like something like that.



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