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  1. #1
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    Default Daisy Cutters

    So what are these daisy cutters that people are talking about in another thread? What conformation attributes make a horse a daisy cutter, or is it just a lazy horse?

    Any videos of one?



  2. #2
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    It's just a horse with very good hunter movement, meaning very little knee action.



  3. #3
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    Daisy cutter for the trot = Crown Point, ridden by Scott Stewart.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UftVL2ejDZQ

    Daisy cutter for the trot & canter = Garnet, ridden by Penny Denegre
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m06W_YHf-s
    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles



  4. #4
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    Default

    Daisy cutters don't have any knee action. These days, IMHO, this does not necessarily equate to a good hunter mover. They certainly aren't bad movers, but the hack winners tend to have little knee action with a lot of impulsion and suspension.

    This is my OTTB that I think of as a classic "daisy cutter"

    Only 10 days off the track here, so not exactly ready to walk into a flat class, but you can see his natural lack of knee action. He lacks the impulsion and suspension to make him a hack winner though.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37wtfoW5EAw



  5. #5
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    Default

    A 'daisy cutter' is just a phrase, but also a term for a hunter horse and it refers to the ideal form in their movement. Think of it as almost 'dragging' their toes across the ground to cut the daisies off at the base. Real sweepy type of motion with little bend/action at the knee. (theres obviously a lot more to a hunter than a 'daisy cutter' trot, but for this posts purposes...)

    Usually this trot will have a lot less bend at the knee than a trot with more knee action. They also wont 'stamp' the ground like a jumper might at the canter.

    I couldnt find any good videos of the 'perfect' daisy cutter trot, but this horse does NOT have a daisy cutter trot. He picks his feet up quite a few inches from the ground and has a lot of bend in his knee and places them down on the ground, not a very straight legged sweeping motion at all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTtVs...eature=related
    (No idea whose video, just found it on youtube)

    I hope that helps!



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SidesaddleRider View Post
    Daisy cutter for the trot = Crown Point, ridden by Scott Stewart.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UftVL2ejDZQ
    With all respect, I do not think this horse has a good hunter 'daisy cutter' trot for explanation in this forum. It is a beautiful extended trot and the horse has beautiful movement, however. Just not the classic daisy cutter.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydro101 View Post
    With all respect, I do not think this horse has a good hunter 'daisy cutter' trot for explanation in this forum. It is a beautiful extended trot and the horse has beautiful movement, however. Just not the classic daisy cutter.
    He is pushing him on in that video, admitted.

    If you watch the video of him riding the horse here, http://www.showjumperclinic.com/, you will see the hunter daisy trot that his won him most (all?) of his hacks.
    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles



  8. #8
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    Huh, I've seen lesson horses like that and I didn't LIKE the way they looked. To me (in my ignorance) I thought it looked like a stiff horse.



  9. #9
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    Here is a thread from COTH a few months ago: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...t=daisy+cutter
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  10. #10
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    A proper daisy cutter mover does not drag its toes at all. The bottom of the foot is actually quite flat to the ground, and in fact, often appears to point the way forward. "Throw the toes" is the way I've heard it. The front leg moves from the shoulder -- you can see a strong travel of the whole shoulder blade.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Thanks for the link.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickelodian View Post
    This is my OTTB that I think of as a classic "daisy cutter"

    Only 10 days off the track here, so not exactly ready to walk into a flat class, but you can see his natural lack of knee action. He lacks the impulsion and suspension to make him a hack winner though.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37wtfoW5EAw
    I wouldn't really call him a daisy cutter...but that's just my opinion. He actually has a normal amount of knee action, but he's really tight through the shoulder so it makes him look like he's cutting those daisies. Or at least that's what I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by hydro101 View Post
    With all respect, I do not think this horse has a good hunter 'daisy cutter' trot for explanation in this forum. It is a beautiful extended trot and the horse has beautiful movement, however. Just not the classic daisy cutter.
    You'd be wrong. Crown Point is an amazing mover...and an excellent example of today's daisy cutter (although I will admit that's not the best I've seen him move).
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    You'd be wrong. Crown Point is an amazing mover...and an excellent example of today's daisy cutter (although I will admit that's not the best I've seen him move).

    This is the difference I am talking about with today's hack winner vs a daisy cutter. I don't think of crown point as a daisy cutter, but I do think of him as an AMAZING mover. To me a daisy cutter is an old school "good mover." I think of my horse as a classic daisy cutter from back in the days before the huge WB influence. Yes he's tight in the shoulder, but also has very very little knee action.



  14. #14
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    I didnt say Crown Point wasn't a good mover... the forum was talking about daisy cutter trots, and that isnt the BEST example. Again, beautiful horse, beautiful mover, but theres better examples. (I think we all get what I was trying to convey...)

    I agree with Nickelodian in that theres different definitions nowadays to a good hunter mover, and its more than a daisy cutter trot. That being said, I dont think a horse with a lot of action and a perfect jump would win, but its not just about who has the flattest knees anymore.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by altjaeger View Post
    Huh, I've seen lesson horses like that and I didn't LIKE the way they looked. To me (in my ignorance) I thought it looked like a stiff horse.
    If you know lesson horses that move like Crown Point, you buy those suckers right now.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydro101 View Post
    I didnt say Crown Point wasn't a good mover... the forum was talking about daisy cutter trots, and that isnt the BEST example. Again, beautiful horse, beautiful mover, but theres better examples. (I think we all get what I was trying to convey...)
    Actually, the video on Showhunterclinic.com shows him to be an amazing daisy cutter. Unfortunately, it's no longer available as a "trial" video on the site...it looks like you have to subscribe.

    Nickelodian: Admittedly during the 80s I wasn't focused on what made a good mover as I was just learning to stay on the horse , but coming back mid 90s, I still wouldn't consider your TB to be a daisy cutter. :shrug: Maybe I've been overly influenced by the WB invasion, who knows. Pausing your video mid-stride shows a normal amount of knee action...I just think that shoulder makes it look more flat than it is. My TB is a little freer in his shoulder, but he moves similarly to yours.

    IMO, a free shoulder, regardless of suspension is key to a daisy cutter. Look at the ponies. They are often some of the best movers and they are FREE in the shoulder. This pony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CA9XBIufk is mover. That shoulder is swinging like nobody's business.

    This horse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy3xec_Jz0k is a beautiful mover at both the trot and canter. You can see some of his trot around 1:29.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by loshad View Post
    If you know lesson horses that move like Crown Point, you buy those suckers right now.
    SO thinking about chaning my sig line.
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.



  18. #18
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    Forgive me if the link to a video is already posted on this thread, but do a search for the poster Jsalem's horse Water Music. Was on the thread titled "Show Me A Good Mover" from a few months ago.

    A magnificent daisy cutter.



  19. #19

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    There was another thread no too long ago with lots of video links in it, and some of the best movers were actually ponies.

    Has anyone put any thought into why so many nice ponies are such gorgeously extravagent movers - more so in the pony ring than the horse ring, IMO.
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.



  20. #20
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    Knock yourself out, MGP.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



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