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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2010
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    1,696

    Default Selling young horses & accepting payment plans

    Do any of you allow buyers to make payments on young horses? If so, what are your stipulations? Obviously you will need to have a good signed contact. Do you allow the buyer to take the horse before the horse is paid in full? Do you wait to hand over the registration papers and transfer of ownership?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2004
    Location
    Lancaster, PA, USA
    Posts
    7,571

    Default

    yes but the horse stays here and I retain the papers until the horse is paid for. I charge a nominal pasture board fee as well for the period the horse is on the payment plan. I have bought a couple horses on a payment plan and the seller had the horse come here with a 50% down payment and the rest on a payment plan, but they were folks that really *needed* to move the horse out of the barn. If you send a horse off with half down you hope you will see the other half.....but hopr for the best and plan for the worst. If someone quits paying it is really hard to hunt tem down or take the horse back. I have not had to repo a horse but know people that did.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2005
    Location
    Oxford, USA
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Let them go to a real bank to get the purchase price in full. Banks have betters ways of dealing with a borrower who defaults on a loan.
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2009
    Posts
    307

    Default

    We allow payment plans but the horse must remain on the property, be insured, and we charge an all inclusive rate of pasture board including feed/hay, trims, vaccinations, and deworming. I would not let any young horse off the property if not paid in full, unless I knew the people or didn't care about seeing the horse or the money.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, NC
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Ditta what camohn and Jewels said. We require a down payment and then horse stays on our farm until paid for. Papers stay in our name until full payment is achieved. We also charge board. And as you said, a very good, thorough contract is the best protection. We have clauses that provide for default (after a certain number of days payment is late, we will keep what was paid to that point, plain and simple), death or injury, and so forth (it's 3 pages, LOL). So far we've done really well with financing, and had no problems, knock on wood, so we've not had to test any of our contracts as of yet... I think as long as you keep the horse in your possession, it really limits your risk, and I am sure we would sell fewer foals if we didn't offer some sort of financing - it's definitely a selling point for buyers.
    Signature Sporthorses
    www.signaturesporthorses.com



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Ditto what other people said, but here's another angle to think about.....

    I sold a 1 month old foal to someone a number of years ago who wanted to pay 1/2 up front and then payments until the foal was weaned and ready to go home. We had a solid contract, foal was insured, etc... When the foal was 3 months old, it mildly fractured it's coffin bone in the pasture. At this point, the woman still owed $2,000 on the foal. Two large vet hospitals and the local vet gave the filly basically a perfect prognosis for full healing and soundness.

    The buyer had a meltdown with crying, hysterics, "God hates me" and begged to not have to pay the remaining $2,000 because now the horse had no value (in her eyes). The insurance didn't matter because there was no treatment other than a month of stall rest and a shoe on her foot.

    I ended up not making the woman pay the remaining $2,000 and of course, the filly was perfectly sound after it's month of stall rest and was never again affected by the coffin bone.

    If the buyer had paid for the horse up front, I guarantee that she wouldn't have been asking for $$ BACK when this incident happened, but since she hadn't finished paying for the horse, it was perfectly acceptable to try to not pay the remaining balance.

    So, if you sell with payments, either be ready to be a hard a$$ if something like this comes up, or be ready to take a loss.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 15, 2010
    Posts
    598

    Default

    I had to repossess a pregnant broodmare out of a pasture. She was so thin I didn't recognize her and couldn't tell she was pregnant. Luckily, a little food and both mother and foal did fine.
    Never again!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2010
    Location
    Ocala, FL
    Posts
    137

    Default

    If you sell a horse on payments and allow the horse to leave make sure you have more than just a contract with payment arangements detailed. You need that promissory note and a lien of some kind allowing you the right to reposess the horse in the event of non-payment. Many people make the mistake of selling with payments and don't realize that their only recourse if payments stop is to sue for the money owed(plus interest depending on your contract). Once you sell the horse, no matter if money is owed or not, you have no right to that horse again unless the buyer agrees to give it back.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2010
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    1,696

    Default

    These are all really good points. I will suggest a bank loan. Has anyone ever accepted a check from a credit card company? I was thinking then I could get my money, and the buyer could make the payments to their credit card company.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2010
    Location
    Ocala, FL
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
    These are all really good points. I will suggest a bank loan. Has anyone ever accepted a check from a credit card company? I was thinking then I could get my money, and the buyer could make the payments to their credit card company.
    Sure, but I would not let the horse go until after it's cleared and been in your account for another week. Some checks will get bounced if they happened to write it for an amount that puts them over their limit.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
    Posts
    1,643

    Default

    I sold one on payments last year - good buyer, all went well. It helped that it was a friend of a friend, so there was a level of comfort there. But I did require the youngster stay here until she was paid off, and she did pay (nominal) board. I also required she insure the horse for medical and mortality. And I didn't sign off the registration papers until the final payment was made.

    I do think there is some risk - as already pointed out, if the horse gets hurt part way through, you aren't sure you'll get full purchase price. Onthe other hand, if you don't have alternate buyers in the wings, and the horse gets hurt, you don't get anything either. Freakin' horses are a risk!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,200

    Default

    I probably should not advertise this, but I have done this many, many times and only had one go bad. All money is to be paid before horse can leave, contract is huge, board is charged, vet-farrier-etc are all charged, late board payments have a $50 fine, late horse payments have a $50 fine. If payments are not received after 30 days delinquent then the buyer forfeits both the horse and all moneys paid to date. Period.


    This often works really well for someone competing and buying a youngster. They can pay over time, they don't have to pay board for a baby at a big boardng farm, it isn't such a hit to their wallet etc.
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2010
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    I've sold many of my foals on contracts. Some have stayed here for minimal board fees while being paid off and others have left with payments to come to me on a regular basis. Contract in any case. Buyer to be responsible for costs of care (if here) or for care itself (if at buyers). Insurance (if sold for a price that insurance will cover). Late fees if payments are late. Repo if payments beyond being late and no communication to rearrange if necessary (one person had family death and we just rewrote contract to allow for more time)....have repo'ed twice in over 30 years. If buyer decides they can't keep horse while still under contract I will take the horse back (or if it is at my place put him back on the market) and buyer forfeits what has been paid...and signs agreement that she is forfeiting horse and payments. Papers do not go to the buyer until the horse is paid in full. Brand inspections are difficult as they are the proof of ownership in this state and also required for movement from one area of the state to another or for interstate shipping (California very close so some sales do cross state lines).

    I've purchased almost all my horses on contracts, some locally and some from clear across the country. Similar to above....papers never transferred until paid in full, animal insured by me, I'm responsible for care costs and for board. I've once had to forfeit what had been paid and wasn't able to take the horse...sudden family emergency and the seller wasn't willing to renegotiate for several months extra time. She did offer to refund what had been paid IF she resold the horse for the same or more $. The horse was resold (for a higher price) but seller didn't refund any of what I had paid...her choice and she simply won't have any business from me in the future.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ticofuzzy View Post
    Ditto what other people said, but here's another angle to think about.....

    I sold a 1 month old foal to someone a number of years ago who wanted to pay 1/2 up front and then payments until the foal was weaned and ready to go home. We had a solid contract, foal was insured, etc... When the foal was 3 months old, it mildly fractured it's coffin bone in the pasture. At this point, the woman still owed $2,000 on the foal. Two large vet hospitals and the local vet gave the filly basically a perfect prognosis for full healing and soundness.

    The buyer had a meltdown with crying, hysterics, "God hates me" and begged to not have to pay the remaining $2,000 because now the horse had no value (in her eyes). The insurance didn't matter because there was no treatment other than a month of stall rest and a shoe on her foot.

    I ended up not making the woman pay the remaining $2,000 and of course, the filly was perfectly sound after it's month of stall rest and was never again affected by the coffin bone.

    If the buyer had paid for the horse up front, I guarantee that she wouldn't have been asking for $$ BACK when this incident happened, but since she hadn't finished paying for the horse, it was perfectly acceptable to try to not pay the remaining balance.

    So, if you sell with payments, either be ready to be a hard a$$ if something like this comes up, or be ready to take a loss.
    I should have been more clear in my original post - the horse was in my possession through this whole ordeal and had not left my farm. I would never let one leave my farm until it was paid in full.
    My point is that it can be very tough to stand your ground and make them finish paying when they are crying that the horse is never going to be sound again - contract or not........



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 26, 2003
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
    These are all really good points. I will suggest a bank loan. Has anyone ever accepted a check from a credit card company? I was thinking then I could get my money, and the buyer could make the payments to their credit card company.

    Working at a bank, DO NOT accept a CC check, we see them returned time & time again. They are VERY high risk. People write the checks, then don't have the funds available on there credit card, then the check gets returned on your account. DO NOT accept them.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2004
    Location
    Still here ~ not yet there
    Posts
    6,480

    Default

    Yes and it's worked out great all but once.

    Horse stays on my property till paid in full. I don't charge board per se, but the buyer must pay for the feed at cost + vet fees, farrier, etc. Payments are paid per month and there is a minimum of a $500 downpayment.

    Also buyer must purchase mortality insurance during the term of purchase with BOTH of us beneficieries. Luckily we've never needed it (knock wood).

    I've probably sold 6-8 horses on payments -- only once did the woman pay about $1000 of the purchase price and then started messing up payments and missing them. After 6 months of no payments, I told her the contract was null and void unless she caught up. She didn't....so that was that....sold the horse later to another buyer.

    Personally, if the home is good, I have no issue taking payments -- better than having the animal sit in your pasture for another year...



  17. #17
    You Are Right Guest

    Default

    We have sold horses on payment plans, often. Choose between owning the horse yourself, and having money(down payment) and a contract to pay the balance. If you don't trust the people don't make the deal, or weight it on the front end so you are ahead at the start. People who need to pay over time usually won't swallow the idea of you keeping the horse, and having to pay extra money on top for board, etc.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2003
    Location
    Cocoa, Fla
    Posts
    4,101

    Default

    Don't forget it's easier to ruin a young horse than an experienced one (young horses can be taught incorrectly and thus it's harder to "unteach" problems. Thus I'd never allow a horse to leave my farm without having received full payment.
    Sandy in Fla.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2009
    Location
    a little north of Columbus GA
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
    These are all really good points. I will suggest a bank loan. Has anyone ever accepted a check from a credit card company? I was thinking then I could get my money, and the buyer could make the payments to their credit card company.
    If they want to do that, then they can deposit the check into their own account and bring you cash (or better, a wire transfer).

    That way any problems with the credit card check happen in their own account.

    When I bought Patrick the quickest way to raise that much cash was the home equity line of credit, so I wrote a check from that to myself, waited for it to clear and funds to be available, then got a cashier's check before we drove out to California. I would never have expected the seller to accept anything but cash or its equivalent -- and now even bank checks are suspect!
    --
    Wendy
    ... and Patrick



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Loudoun County, VA
    Posts
    10,420

    Default

    I accept payment plans and have never had a problem. Everything needs to be laid out clearly in the contract, the horse must be insured with the seller named as loss payee, and the horse cannot leave the farm until paid in full.

    In this economy, I think you would be crazy not to offer some flexibility in terms.
    Roseknoll Sporthorses
    www.roseknoll.net



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