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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
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    12,539

    Default 450 starving horses in MT

    I didn't see a thread on this. Guy seems like a jerk.

    http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...13a13972c.html



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2009
    Posts
    555

    Default

    I saw this on FHOTD yesterday. Amazing, just horrific. Read the entire article off the link. What a mess. No one wants to do right by these poor beasts - all involved just sit around moaning and wringing their hands over the disaster, no one willing to pony up the cash to acually help.

    What made me most angry was the part about the horses who'd broken their legs, but managed somehow to stagger around on stumps anyway. The real knock out was the report of the "banding" of the front legs of one. HUH??? WTH????? This man has several decades of experience raising prize cattle, and he bands young horses on their legs?????????? Is he going to say he had no idea they'd grow up and the bands would restrict the circulation??? This makes me so sick I want to go tie something around his middle, and limbs, snug the ties tight, and let him go around for years thusly crippled. But then again, if there is any justice in this world, he'll be made to starve in some crummy jail. We all know that'll never happen.

    What's up with the neighbors who managed to come up with over a million dollars for the land, but then proceed to whine about the jerk not moving his horses, so they just let 'em starve. Drove them off here and there to save pasture and hay for their cattle. I have zero sympathy for the entire lot involved. Maybe they'll get their comeuppance in another life, who knows. I'm so glad Fugly is making a stink about it all. Yay.

    Just what the grade horse market needs right now. Another flood of poor, sick crippled nags to fill the killers' pens.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    2,732

    Default

    How awful! Poor horses!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    It takes a sick and twisted individual to let horses starve to death instead of selling them for cheap money.

    I can't totally blame the family who bought his foreclosed farm - he was supposed to move the horses 6 months ago, and has refused. They shouldn't be expected to lose their own shirts and business because of him. I personally can't imagine having to make the decision to let horses starve to death, but at the end of the day, it won't do anyone or any animal any good if they allow 450 horses they don't own to overgraze the land that their cattle are on so both the horses and the cattle starve.

    What a horrible situation for all involved. Most of all the horses.

    I hope something happens soon - even if it means the horses are just put down. It's better than starving to death.
    -Jessica



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    732

    Default Argh!

    I dont know how to solve the juristictional conundrum for these folks...Looks like the people who are in authority have no resources: from the article--

    " The Yellowstone County Sheriff's Office is in charge of animal abuse cases, but it isn't set up to handle horses.
    "Look at us. Do you see any cowboys here or horse trailers?" then-Undersheriff Seth Weston said in December when it was becoming clear the horses were in danger.
    The Sheriff's Office is in charge of the investigation, and the Montana Department of Livestock is assisting"

    I am going to send a letter to the Gov of Montana, may not do anything but this sort of thing is maddening to me. here is the address:

    Governor Brian D. Schweitzer
    Office of the Governor
    Montana State Capitol Bldg.
    P.O. Box 200801
    Helena MT 59620-0801
    (406) 444-3111, FAX (406) 444-5529

    Lieutenant Governor John Bohlinger
    Office of the Lt. Governor
    Montana State Capitol Bldg.
    PO Box 200801
    Helena, MT 59620-1901
    (406) 444-3111, FAX (406) 444-4648


    If others have a better idea, please post it. There has got to be something that can be done for these animals, yikes!
    When I pull on my boots, I know who I am



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2009
    Posts
    555

    Default I thought about this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
    It takes a sick and twisted individual to let horses starve to death instead of selling them for cheap money.

    I can't totally blame the family who bought his foreclosed farm - he was supposed to move the horses 6 months ago, and has refused. They shouldn't be expected to lose their own shirts and business because of him. I personally can't imagine having to make the decision to let horses starve to death, but at the end of the day, it won't do anyone or any animal any good if they allow 450 horses they don't own to overgraze the land that their cattle are on so both the horses and the cattle starve.

    What a horrible situation for all involved. Most of all the horses.

    I hope something happens soon - even if it means the horses are just put down. It's better than starving to death.
    A real mess, for sure, but doesn't this sometimes happen anyway, at boarding barns where an owner simply stops paying his horse's board? Can't be found, or compelled to move the animals? I know if I bought a property and the sellers didn't move their stock I'd be angry, but I also wouldn't just herd the horses into lots with no water, or food. I would indeed move to take legal ownership on them though, so I could feed and vet and sell or give them away at least. Keep the tab running on them in case I could collect the board in arrears. I don't know, whatever, I'd certainly not just leave them out there with no food or water. Here, in Va. it's probably easier to get Animal Control involved or find some good remedy. I don't know about the wild west, mixed up with BIA. Just insane though, with no good excuse.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
    It takes a sick and twisted individual to let horses starve to death instead of selling them for cheap money.
    This sort of sad event, as well as many others, are why I don't believe that horse slaughter prevents horse neglect, abuse or suffering. This guy is in Montana, a close drive to a Canadian slaughterhouse, and the horses are not sold cheap for meat which would be fairly easy for him to do but rather terribly neglected and abused and left to die. That same story has been repeated for decades all over America...most recently here in our area.

    I'm not trying to make this into a nasty debate but when you said what you did about why didn't he just sell them cheaply, I felt compelled to point out that people who do this sort of thing are not rational or normal and don't do what they should do in the first place.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,429

    Default

    Looks like a jurisdictional nightmare, combined with an owner who needs to be smothered in honey and staked to a fire ant hill. On the other hand, if the other guy purposefully deprived the owner of access to the horses, compounding the problem - he's no saint either.

    I am glad law enforcement chose to put two down; sounds like they were suffering horribly. Perhaps that is what ends up happening to the rest. Can't say it's a worse end than starving to death in a Montana winter.

    Poor horses. I hope they get the help they need; even if it is just to end their suffering.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,695

    Default

    That fellow went into bankrupcy in 2004!

    http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_bullish/

    I am surprised he still had anything left to lose, as he left many in a pinch then.

    The authorities, if they helped the horses before now, they would have been involved in a legally questionable position.
    It takes several dead horses to get the right balls rolling in such cases.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2010
    Posts
    574

    Default Banding Horses Legs??!!??

    Can anyone explain this 'banding' of the horses legs? What in the world is that and why is it done?

    I've never heard of that before, does anyone have info. on it? That just stunned me when I read it.....
    Proud Native Texan!
    owned by 3 Cardigan Corgi's + 3 wonderful horses!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 12, 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    707

    Default

    What a mess. And what a jerk.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pcostx View Post
    Can anyone explain this 'banding' of the horses legs? What in the world is that and why is it done?

    I've never heard of that before, does anyone have info. on it? That just stunned me when I read it.....
    Never heard of that before either, on any species, not on growing animals.
    Just as you know not to leave a small halter on a foal and it grows into it's face as it grows, or a small collar on a puppy and the neck grows over it.
    I have seen those, would like to shoot those that do it.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Virginia
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    7,136

    Default

    Birds are "banded" with identification tags on their legs, both wild and tame.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightsong View Post
    Birds are "banded" with identification tags on their legs, both wild and tame.
    Yes, we did our homing pigeons, but their legs when we did were thru growing.

    Horses are not birds.

    Mares in large breeding farms some times wear identification plastic collars, no leg bands.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2005
    Posts
    2,625

    Default

    Identification purposes- some of them were also branded with ID numbers vs. leg bands.

    The owner turned from cattle breeding to horses when his business started to decline, of course there isn't a market for horses (it was on the decline by 2005 if you recall) so he basically lost everything.

    This does suck all around for the horses. The asshat owner is dilusional. Now it's at the point where it's more humane for many of the horses just to get a bullet in the head. Another couple weeks of winter with no food- more than half the herd will be dead.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2010
    Location
    Nevada
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    2,561

    Default

    1.) Have no idea what the banding on the legs is about....never heard of it.
    2.) Due to the ownership patterns of land (as mentioned in the article) it is almost impossible to know sometimes whether you are on your land, your neighbors land, the BLM or (in this case) Indian reservation land. And many of the animal laws out here focus on the landowner, making it hard to know who to go to.
    3.) He is right in a way...under ranch foreclosure in many areas the owner that was foreclosed upon and the property sold in foreclosure sale has a year to repurchase the property at the price it was sold for...and in some cases (especially where there are checkerboard ownership patterns) livestock does stay if the owner informs the court he plans to repurchase.
    4.) Having Indian reservation land involved really complicates things...esp if he has leases on unfenced tribal lands. The reservations are considered by treaty to be sovereign nations and local law enforcement cannot enter that land without specific permission, usually from the tribal elders or tribal council...and they aren't real eager to have white/non-Indian law enforcement on their lands. We have this problem here with our small colony of Paiute-Shoshone tribal members. Just the other night there was a 911 call (our sheriffs office takes 911 calls and dispatches for all law enforcement in the area except state police that are dispatched out of Elko....200 miles away) in which someone from the colony called and said his child was in danger from another tribal member threatening to cut her throat...he wanted a police officer there asap. Neither our city nor county law could enter the colony and the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) officer had gone off duty at midnight (and lives 70+ miles away). The tribe here doesn't have its own police force any longer (disbanded a couple years back due to some financial and other irregularities and tribe doesn't have $ to pay them even if they could have their own...BIA has done the law enforcement there since but doesn't have manpower for 24/7 coverage).
    5.) This is truly a mess and the horses are the ones in trouble and both jurisditional and purely logistical issues aren't going to make it easy in any way to deal with it. The one fellow is right...there are going to be a lot of dead horses within a couple weeks.
    6.) I agree that it was unfortunate that he didn't sell off these horses when he had the sale last year but I also see his point...if he was accustomed to getting high prices (and he was...I'm familiar with the catalogues and the prices from his horses) I can understand his unwillingness to sell for $200 each....that would have been at about the beginning of the real crash of prices out here and he had every reason to believe that former high dollar customers would likely buy privately if he didn't sell at the sale.
    7.) IF he's right that the purchasers of the ranch in the foreclosure have moved horses around and mixed them up and put them in areas without much winter grazing then they should be held equally responsible IMO.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,695

    Default

    I remember Valley Vet Supply catalog had broodmare leg bands for sale.

    Here is a picture of one:

    http://www.extension.org/pages/Mare_Records

    Now, those are not for foals that are growing.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    I've actually worked on ranches and never heard of 'banding' horse's legs. Every ranch I was at branded their horses
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ILuvmyButtercups View Post
    A real mess, for sure, but doesn't this sometimes happen anyway, at boarding barns where an owner simply stops paying his horse's board? Can't be found, or compelled to move the animals? I know if I bought a property and the sellers didn't move their stock I'd be angry, but I also wouldn't just herd the horses into lots with no water, or food. I would indeed move to take legal ownership on them though, so I could feed and vet and sell or give them away at least. Keep the tab running on them in case I could collect the board in arrears. I don't know, whatever, I'd certainly not just leave them out there with no food or water. Here, in Va. it's probably easier to get Animal Control involved or find some good remedy. I don't know about the wild west, mixed up with BIA. Just insane though, with no good excuse.

    But one or two horses in a boarding barn is WAY WAY different than 450.
    I'm sure it's not the choice they *wanted* to make, but, as I said, I would assume it's a matter of making sure their own stock is well fed, or watching all the animals on the property go without enough to eat. It's a horrible situation no matter how you look at it.
    -Jessica



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    This sort of sad event, as well as many others, are why I don't believe that horse slaughter prevents horse neglect, abuse or suffering. This guy is in Montana, a close drive to a Canadian slaughterhouse, and the horses are not sold cheap for meat which would be fairly easy for him to do but rather terribly neglected and abused and left to die. That same story has been repeated for decades all over America...most recently here in our area.

    I'm not trying to make this into a nasty debate but when you said what you did about why didn't he just sell them cheaply, I felt compelled to point out that people who do this sort of thing are not rational or normal and don't do what they should do in the first place.
    DDB, I totally agree with you. But it appears that even if Leachman could sell them for cheap money, he wouldn't do it. To quote from the article:

    "My game plan now, in general, is to get through the redemption of the ranch and plan on having an orderly horse sale, which would probably entail or include a reduction in the horse numbers," he said. "And ideally, I would have a nucleus to go forward."
    All the horses were meticulously sorted for a fall sale, he said, but the Stovalls mixed them up again and they keep moving his horses around without his permission, so he doesn't know where they all are to feed or doctor them. Leachman said the Stovalls are jealous of his skills with genetics and for years have been out to get his ranch and his Crow tribal leases.
    The Stovalls can't feed the horses because they don't own them, are wary of getting sued, and need the hay and land for their own livestock. Leachman was supposed to remove his horses six months ago when he lost the ranch, Stovall said, a point Leachman disputes. And Stovall is frustrated at the slow pace of public agencies in dealing with the horse problem that has been festering for at least a year.
    "We've got to protect our grass and all the hay we bought for our cows," Turk Stovall said. "We've done about everything we can think of."
    And this:

    After telling a bankruptcy judge last winter that he had no income after the collapse of the Leachman Cattle Co., and a price collapse in the horse markets, Leachman said he would hold his annual fall Hairpin Cavvy sale.
    That didn't happen.
    "I planned on having a sale this fall, I just couldn't have it. Sure, I could have it if I wanted to sell my horses for 200 bucks," he said in December.
    The man should be left out on the range with no feed to starve right along with his poor horses.
    -Jessica



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