The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2005
    Location
    Mass.
    Posts
    6,752

    Default All these "stolen" horses - why do thieves WANT them?

    Seriously. Why would someone steal a horse? You can go on any craigslist in the country and pick up a trailerful of FREE horses. Why in the world would someone go through the trouble of STEALING a horse?
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2010
    Posts
    598

    Default

    I have wondered that too. But people also steal dogs, relatively valueless dogs, sometimes right out of yards. I don't get it.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2006
    Location
    Middle of Nowhere, take a right, FL
    Posts
    4,472

    Default

    They can haul them off to an auction and flip them for a profit. No they probably won't get a lot of money but when it's a free horse it's all profit. Minus the gas. Or maybe they want a horse!

    They may be by a place they can ship them off via a kill buyer for a quick profit but most horses that are stolen are nicer horses that people can move out of the area and resell.
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2006
    Location
    Mountains of WV
    Posts
    954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alg0181 View Post
    I have wondered that too. But people also steal dogs, relatively valueless dogs, sometimes right out of yards. I don't get it.
    Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2010
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cholmberg View Post
    Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.
    There is enough need for dogs at research facilities that it's profitable to steal them?

    That is truly horrifying.



  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post

    They may be by a place they can ship them off via a kill buyer for a quick profit but most horses that are stolen are nicer horses that people can move out of the area and resell.
    well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

    so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2008
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,001

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alg0181 View Post
    There is enough need for dogs at research facilities that it's profitable to steal them?

    That is truly horrifying.
    IDK that this truly happens that often any more...a lot of research requires dogs in perfect health with known histories...there are companies that breed beagles specifically for research.
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

    Former owner of the best Amish-carthorse-turned-eventer ever



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2005
    Location
    Unionville, PA
    Posts
    3,884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cholmberg View Post
    Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.
    Wrong. All research facilities have to get animals from an approved source.
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2006
    Location
    Southeast Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

    so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

    Tamara in TN
    Since when are they that particular about what goes to slaughter?

    And $4,000 for maybe 2 days work? Sounds like a quick profit to me.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2000
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    2,650

    Default

    The $4000 is BEFORE expenses of getting them to the slaughterhouse.

    Still, not to deny there is a market. The question remains tho, why go through the risk of stealing when there are so many to be had for free or very little without the legal risk?

    I suspect many times it is that somebody wants to hurt the horse owner. Of the better-trained or bred horses, somebody may want it for themselves. Buying for resale is far from a sure thing in this economy, not to mention the legal risk! Other times it may be the ease of a group of horses loaded quickly, all at once from a pasture. And then there is no overestimating criminal stupidity...



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2009
    Location
    The Great Plains of Canada
    Posts
    3,066

    Default

    Who says YOU (as a thief) are the one taking them to the slaughter house as opposed to auction??? I would venture to guess most are crossing borders and selling at auction, which definitely might be worth the quick cash. Otherwise, no idea here either. Someone should do a study ;P

    As for dogs, it's been in our local big-city papers to keep an eye on your dog lest it be stolen and used for training fighting dogs (where these fighting dogs are, I have no clue, I didn't even know we HAD fighting rings). Bully and bully-type breeds ie, Dobes, Rotties, GS's, Pitties and like as well as crosses of course, are particularly targeted and used. They are somehow used to teach the fighter prospect how to fight.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2003
    Location
    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
    Posts
    7,736

    Default

    Either they are fascinated by someone's particular horse, or they want to hurt the owner.

    Sometimes, these situations are really about buyers and sellers--ownership disputes, leases gone bad, etc.

    The woman who stole my Calvin, and sold him to an unsuspecting girl in Canada, did it for profit, pure and simple. She violated the lease contract, lied to me and without some damn quick detective work by me and other COTHrs from Canada, I'd never have recovered him. People should have a clear set of photos and a written description of their horses. In WA a brand inspection card (think ID card for horses) on file with the state is super helpful--they have a livestock theft investigator who can do things regular citizens cannot--like arrest folks, when the DA and cops tell you "it's a civil matter". Huh. I guess horse thieves here aren't the same as car thieves....
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Since when are they that particular about what goes to slaughter?
    And $4,000 for maybe 2 days work? Sounds like a quick profit to me.

    since they can be and if they fall outside the approved specs they send them back to you,normally 300 lbs tighter than they arrived.. ask a real kill buyer/dealer and not one of the propaganda machines or flippers working the internet and they will tell you the same thing

    $4,000 for 20 head does not include the fuel at $3.25 gal (at 7mpg) to get them to the crossing...those fat slick perfectly healthy 1000plus horses...

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2010
    Location
    United States of Absurdistan
    Posts
    1,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by naturalequus View Post
    As for dogs, it's been in our local big-city papers to keep an eye on your dog lest it be stolen and used for training fighting dogs (where these fighting dogs are, I have no clue, I didn't even know we HAD fighting rings). Bully and bully-type breeds ie, Dobes, Rotties, GS's, Pitties and like as well as crosses of course, are particularly targeted and used. They are somehow used to teach the fighter prospect how to fight.
    My understanding has always been that they want more submissive dogs for their fighters to tear apart. Maybe they slowly work up from totally submissive to something that shows a little fight? IDK, I dont understand the mindset at all.

    I would think that people who steal horses, either do it because they want the horse, want to hurt the owner, or want to make a quick buck at auction. Stealing them is more of a guarantee then having to sweet talk an owner looking for a "good home".

    LBR
    I reject your reality, and substitute my own- Adam Savage

    R.I.P Ron Smith, you'll be greatly missed



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2006
    Location
    Southeast Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    since they can be and if they fall outside the approved specs they send them back to you,normally 300 lbs tighter than they arrived.. ask a real kill buyer/dealer and not one of the propaganda machines or flippers working the internet and they will tell you the same thing

    $4,000 for 20 head does not include the fuel at $3.25 gal (at 7mpg) to get them to the crossing...those fat slick perfectly healthy 1000plus horses...

    Tamara in TN

    Not sure I believe that because ponies, foals and young horses go to slaughter. And they would be under 1,000 pounds. But since I don't know any kill buyers, I can't say for sure.

    Just seems from reading what others have posted on other threads regarding slaughter horses, that a discerning eye for the animals is not needed.

    Don't mean to side track the thread...

    But I do believe there is money to be made in the slaughter pipeline from a stolen horse. Whether the horse is sold at a low end auction or directly to a kill buyer, there is quick money to be made.



  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Not sure I believe that because ponies, foals and young horses go to slaughter. And they would be under 1,000 pounds. But since I don't know any kill buyers, I can't say for sure.

    .
    the people we know thru our business say that there is a bigger market for feeding big cats in private zoos than any slaughter houses...esp ponies(smaller equines)...one man whom I have never had reason to doubt told me of selling about 400 head of ponies over 5 years for just such a thing....

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Here's a scary scenerio for you and you would be shocked how often it's done right here in Texas (every Weekend). Haul trailer down road at night on Wed & Thursday pick up however many will fit and run them to the auction on Friday night at House A. Dealers pick up horses at House A and flip them at an auction less than 100 miles the other direction at House B (Sat). (If your lucky they've also picked up forged papers.) Dealer picks up horses at House B and sells the papers for those going to Mexico on Sunday. That's right folks your pony got flipped 3 times and is still slaughter bound all in less than 72 hours. It's done ALL the time. Those that make it to the sale barn are listed within 48 hours of purchase and usually gone by the next week. If not then round 2. How would I know this routine? Except for the slaughter and theft I did it for YEARS! I dealt only in regestered horses and no I didn't buy or sell papers for them but yeah start with 10 horses and end up with 2 for the lot for retrain. Bought the horses for pennies on the lbs (Thank you cattle auctions) and then trained them and sold them for hundreds or thousands more. Even with facebook, police, & BB you'd be hard pressed to beat that time line. It can be done but it's difficult.
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

    so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

    Tamara in TN
    Not here. I had the opportunity to have this very conversation with law enforcement a year or so ago.............

    The concern here is that we are only an hour from the border and 2 hours from the closest plant. We were warned about thieves taking horses out of pastures at night and heading straight for teh border. Slaughter trailers are not checked, only sealed. The horses require no paperwork. They can be dead before you realize that your pasture is empty. The officer told me that they will target higher end barn because a) the horses are fat b) they are often turned out in large groups with halters ON c) they will load quietly without a fuss d) no one thinks much of a truck and trailer pulling in to a horse farm
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
    Not here. I had the opportunity to have this very conversation with law enforcement a year or so ago.............

    The concern here is that we are only an hour from the border and 2 hours from the closest plant. We were warned about thieves taking horses out of pastures at night and heading straight for teh border. Slaughter trailers are not checked, only sealed. The horses require no paperwork.
    you would be correct on the CDN border...our people deal with the MX border only...a long long drive from anywhere...

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2006
    Location
    Southeast Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    you would be correct on the CDN border...our people deal with the MX border only...a long long drive from anywhere...

    Tamara in TN
    I would think she would be correct--she wrote that she lives an hour from the border and has talked to law enforcement.

    Your kill buyers in Tennessee only deal with 1,000 pound horses and only ship to Mexico? See how different it is in other parts of the country?



Similar Threads

  1. Stop-motion video with lots of horses - "Hoedown" from "Rodeo"
    By Risk-Averse Rider in forum Off Course
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Dec. 1, 2011, 08:36 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: Aug. 21, 2011, 07:56 PM
  3. MISSING-STOLEN "2" ASB Horses in Campbellsville, KY
    By FoxyFizz in forum Missing Horses
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jun. 6, 2011, 01:53 PM
  4. Replies: 21
    Last Post: Oct. 2, 2009, 01:55 PM
  5. Replies: 86
    Last Post: Apr. 19, 2008, 04:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness