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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2005
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    90

    Default Would you buy a horse with this issue? -- pics added!

    Doing a little exploratory horse shopping these days and came across a LOVELY 6 year old 16'2 WB. Very nice mover. Sound and happy -- even in lousy ring conditions. Nicely put together, but does have a SLIGHT toe in on his right front. It does not come from the leg, but from the foot itself (if that makes sense). It is visible but not overly so.

    The horse has been raised as a HJ and has never had a problem with soundness (per the owner). Of course, we would x-ray the foot, etc for any major structural issues. But, I wanted to get a general idea if this is something that you all would eliminate a horse from consideration for outright.

    I am working on getting some pics from the owner. She is supposed to send them today.
    Last edited by tennygirl; Jan. 25, 2011 at 01:54 PM. Reason: added info



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2006
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    3rd rock from the sun
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    Default

    Get xrays and have your vet look and have a good and trusted farrier look at the foot.

    If he passes a PPE (and a blood test to make sure no pain killers) and xrays and farrier say no problem..then no problem.
    I love my OTTB! I get my dressage test done faster!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,453

    Default

    As a general matter, no, a slight toe-in (in the front) does not bother me. My current mare is a bit toed-in on the RF also, and paddles a tiny bit because of it, but in our 10 years together (she is 18 now) it has never caused her a moment's trouble.

    Yes, talk with your vet and farrier, but for me personally, a slight toe-in is way down on my "minor issues" list.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2001
    Location
    Washington, DC
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    6,483

    Default

    I have a horse who toes in ever so slightly on one front foot (does not paddle)...he's been the soundest horse I've ever owned to date, through Training level work, 3 years no issues.

    So, no, not if PPE/xrays/farrier tell you it's OK, especially if horse has been jumping successfully.
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Azle, Teh-has
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    Default

    Does the horse paddle?
    That is my largest pet peeve of all. I'd pass for that. Vain I know.

    but otherwise I'd probably have a look!
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  6. #6
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    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
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    5,786

    Default

    I would definitely get x-rays if I were interested, but would also definitely NOT let it scare me away.


    I've known some super sound pigeon toed horses (though this sounds possibly like it's actually a club foot?), super sound club footed horses, too. I just would want to know what's going on with the structure - that will give you a better idea of how it affects things, especially if the horse has been jumping already.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2010
    Posts
    443

    Default

    my current horse is slightly toed in on both fronts, legs are straight, moves straight, and his foot lands flat (as opposed to one side hitting and then the other) I have never had soundness issues with him (well he's a little funny right now but that is bc he got himself essentially cast against the fence :/ not related to his legs) so I would say go off the opinion of your vet and farrier, but no It would not scare me away. Also, It depends on the level you want to compete at...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 17, 2009
    Location
    Unionville
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Doesn't bother me. Obviously do your due diligence, but if it's slight it's probably more cosmetic than anything else.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals" Immanuel Kant



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2005
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    90

    Default

    Thanks all.

    The only thing the seller said that gave me any pause was that he doesn't flex perfectly on that ankle. 1-2 out of 5. If we go forward, we will definitely have the xrays done. He is such a nice horse otherwise, I would hate to say no to him because of something that isn't a huge issue. But I also don't want to buy a problem if I can avoid it.

    We shall see!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2002
    Location
    Looking up
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    6,128

    Default

    Don't ever watch the jog at Rolex if a little crookedness bothers anyone.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    7,234

    Default

    My little TB mare who has gone Intermediate toes in on both fronts. My Irish mare who went Prelim toes in quite a bit on her left front. Both still sound at the ages of 15 and 16. Correct shoeing (keeping them as straight as possible without compromising joint spacing, etc requires baseline xrays, and addressing any flares that develop on the medial side of the hoof so it stays in balance, etc etc) at a regular interval is important of course.

    Jennifer



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tennygirl View Post
    Doing a little exploratory horse shopping these days and came across a LOVELY 6 year old 16'2 WB. Very nice mover. Sound and happy -- even in lousy ring conditions. Nicely put together, but does have a SLIGHT toe in on his right front. It does not come from the leg, but from the foot itself (if that makes sense). It is visible but not overly so.

    The horse has been raised as a HJ and has never had a problem with soundness (per the owner). Of course, we would x-ray the foot, etc for any major structural issues. But, I wanted to get a general idea if this is something that you all would eliminate a horse from consideration for outright.

    I am working on getting some pics from the owner. She is supposed to send them today.
    comformation fault - elbows out toes in
    elbows in toes out
    elbows straight toes striaght

    i have a horse thats pigeon toed hes 28 now never had a lame issue he is an ex grade A international show jumper competed all over the world now retired but not lame
    lots of horses that i know that are show jumpers or eventers have a dish which is toes out or pigeon toes which is toes in not a problem
    but horses do need to have a qualfied farrier to balance the foot correctly
    not a trimmmer or un qualified person

    would i buy another with toes in or out not a problem as long as the horse can do what i want it to not bothered



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2011
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Have xrays and ask a vet - like a LEG VET not some country vet who delivers foals (not that those are not great vets but find one with jumping - horse history and experience) even if you just want to call and pay him to pick his brain or something. I do not like the flex problem you mention..... but I would not say NO right away... I would explore it with advice from a few pros. He may not flex properly because he may need the right work and trim.

    I do think horses can go barefoot and in shoes. I am not necesarily a barefoot only person BUT I had two horses with hoof issues that were mid level - one mare was slightly turned in with one foot and the foot also tended to get a little clubby. She went barefoot and was trimmed every other week and her flex issues were never an issue as long as she was kept trimmed often. The other horse was straight but he had a clubbish foot and basically he came to me unsound at age 9 and was a very talented jumper. We took his shoes off and also trimmed him every 2 weeks on that foot. The young man I sold him to has that shoe reset every 2 weeks to keep that foot trimmed.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
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    Triangle Area, NC
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    6,707

    Default

    being someone who is pro xray for hoof health and trim and shoe my own... doesn't bug me a bit!
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2010
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    Harpers Ferry, WV
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbaytb View Post
    Get xrays and have your vet look and have a good and trusted farrier look at the foot.

    If he passes a PPE (and a blood test to make sure no pain killers) and xrays and farrier say no problem..then no problem.
    This. Good luck.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2006
    Location
    Colorado- Yee Haw!
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    2,752

    Default

    My nearly 22 yo has two front feet you would swear came from different horses. He has been very sound for me over the years. I would Xray and consult a good farrier like others have said, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2001
    Location
    Lexington, KY--GO BIG BLUE!!
    Posts
    3,201

    Default

    Toeing in doesn't bother me much at all. My 2-star/adv mare toes in and paddles a little, but it has not affected her soundness one bit (she's now 13). I've known another Intermediate WB who paddles like a duck (he would literally knock the rails of dressage rings at times) but it also never bothered him. Quite a shock watching him down centerline, though!

    When critiqueing limb conformation, it is important to acknowledge the whole horse. A forehand-heavy animal will stress those crooked legs more than a balanced individual. Small, tiny feet will compound problems. But a horse who uses his hind end, lands squarely on each foot, ridden in balance, can overcome a lot of limb deformities.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 1999
    Posts
    1,992

    Default Wait a minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by tennygirl View Post
    Thanks all.

    The only thing the seller said that gave me any pause was that he doesn't flex perfectly on that ankle. 1-2 out of 5. If we go forward, we will definitely have the xrays done. He is such a nice horse otherwise, I would hate to say no to him because of something that isn't a huge issue. But I also don't want to buy a problem if I can avoid it.

    We shall see!
    Everyone is saying not a problem and I agree, UNTIL you wrote this! If the horse shows soreness on flexion in the ankle, then it IS a leg problem, not just a foot problem.

    If you really like the horse, get the xrays done and consult with a vet and farrier. Could be just a poor trim is causing jamming in P1 and P2. BUT, it could be the start of ringbone, and if that's the case, I'D RUN!
    \"I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.\"--Pogo



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2005
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Yes, Mary, that is exactly what my vet said. Sigh. I really like this horse. A lot. He is a very sweet boy and I think he would be a great partner with some eventing miles. He was amazingly sound, even in the lousy footing I tried him in, very genuine, very willing. He is a little bigger than I really wanted. I almost didn't look at him, but he doesn't feel big if that makes any sense.

    BUT, part of my looking for a new horse is because my current horse has a leg injury that we are rehabbing. I hate to knowingly buy another problem, even if he is sound right now this problem could be an issue down the road, in which case I will end up with TWO horses with leg issues.




  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    4,461

    Default Ok, so you really like him.

    Ok, so he's not perfect.... hell honey, they're like men, there are good ones and bad ones, no perfect ones, and they are all one bad step away from being a pasture pet. My OTTB show hunter was pigeon towed, and had the biggest rear ankle you've ever seen. He pinned his ears, did not like to be groomed and would not ever go into any wash stall, no matter how big, light or non scary it was. Would jump into the back of the pickup if he thought he was going to a show, would throw a fit if the trailer left without him. Never ever refused a fence. Ever. Was buried on the hill at the age of 27 and never took a lame step.
    I worked at both TB and STB racetracks for years and saw as many possible conformation defects as you could possibly imagine (and some you couldn't) on horses that were racing sound. A foot would bother me less than a leg and some vets can make a sound horse flex a bit sore (think Saphire).


    You already like him, he's the one, that if something ever did happen, you'd likely not regret one day of rehab with. Sounds like a cool guy.
    So xray him to rule out anything really bad, then make them an offer you can live with if he doesn't stay sound forever.


    But I bet he does.



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