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  1. #1
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    Sep. 24, 2001
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    Lexington, Kentucky
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    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2001
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    7,471

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    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2003
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Posts
    293

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    Now wait...

    Who owned WE&W? Was it the Jacksons or Dena Lopez or both the Jacksons & Lopez???? Because...ugh, I don't understand. Exhume the body, get to the root of all of this mess, and then let the poor horse rest in piece.
    ~Suzanne~

    http://community.webshots.com/user/suzyq31218 <--pictures of my \"special little guy\"

    \"\"Grab the bull by the horns. Anyone ever really thought about that? I have seen a bull and somehow I am guessing it is not a good ide



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    16,675

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    The Jackson's owned him; Dena Lopez was his trainer.

    What a mess this has turned into http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2002
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    469

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    I'm sorry, but sounds like the trainer really has overstepped her bounderies.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2003
    Location
    KS
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    111

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    Having kept up with the story via BB and news, I do find the whole thing somewhat crazy. It does seem odd that the trainer took the liberties she did.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2003
    Location
    Bloomington, MN, USA
    Posts
    88

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    okay, i don't get why they are arguing over the petty things like tail switches and sets, ribbons, trophies, etc. Personally, being a saddlebred owner myself I dont think that those are the most important things-the fact that you do own a horse and they are part of your family and you should cherish them and I feel that this shouldn't be turned into what it has been.

    I am deeply saddened by what has happened-I feel for the Jackson's. We had something similar happen at my barn (not the same situation, but nevertheless a horse died -and then a week later another one died also) and so i feel their pain. I hope they catch whoever did this to Wild Eyed and Wicked, Meet Prince Charming, and the others, plus my barns' horses up here.
    ~Shayna~
    Saddleseat Equitation
    Looking Forward to what\'s to come in 2005



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2003
    Location
    Southeastern Pa USA
    Posts
    157

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    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif
    exhuming the body after a year????
    Yikes!
    Can they really find any kind of evidence after a whole YEAR????

    sounds kinda gross...... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2000
    Location
    Central Coast, CA
    Posts
    1,433

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    What a shame this appears to have degenerated into a tug-of-war compelte with mudslinging. For myself, I am really having a hard time understanding why Dena Lopez is being so difficult about this. A) It isn't her horse and B) I think that if she was really that concerned about finding out the how, who and why she would be a bit more accomodating.

    And yes, they can find all kinds of amazing things even after a year in the ground. There are damn few drugs, chemicals, whatever that don't leave some type of trace or signature behind. Watch enough Forensic Files or New Detectives like I do and you learn all kinds of cool stuff.
    "Cats aren't clean; they're covered with cat spit."
    - John S Nichols (1745-1846,writer/printer)

    There's no reasoning with crazy people.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
    Posts
    100

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    The motion's "Statement of Relevant Facts" in support of exhumation includes the following information about Wicked's care and subsequent euthanasia and burial ((Remember that a suit only gives one side of a dispute)

    Thought that was a very responsible statement. One we should all remember when reading about this case.

    And, a reminder...the State Police already have in their possession blood and tissue samples from all the horses injured, along with a leg of one of the other euthanized horses.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,512

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Wicked was buried in the same grave, back to back, with Meet Prince Charming, "a violation of common practice in the equine industry, especially when burying a World's Grand Champion," states the motion. &lt;&lt;&lt;

    OK, I am not an expert in the burying of horses, but I am not sure I understand this. Am I the only kid on the block who has never heard this is an unacceptable practice?
    Personally, if my two older mares were euthanized at the same time, I would likely bury them together-they are lifelong friends, and I think it would be appropriate. Although, my mares aren't world champions either.

    In any case, lets say I am living under a rock and this is a disrespectful practice in the horse world, I don't believe its illegal or unethical. Why add it to the list of charges?

    Of course, I am assuming that they were buried both lying on their sides with backs touching?

    Someone want to clue me in so I can get out of my fog? I'm just confused by the statement.....



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2003
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Posts
    293

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    Ok...

    So Dena Lopez didn't own him? Then why the court order (injunction, whatever it is) to exhume the body? She's not the horse's owner...she has no say in the matter. Now I could see, if she owned part interest in him, why she could be so difficult, but this really perplexes me. Just exhume the body already.

    Ok, her not letting them exhume WE&W, is like...if I were buried under mysterious circumstances, and my parents wanted to exhume my body to further investigate my death, but my boss wouldn't allow it. That's just downright silly.

    Just my $.02
    ~Suzanne~

    http://community.webshots.com/user/suzyq31218 <--pictures of my \"special little guy\"

    \"\"Grab the bull by the horns. Anyone ever really thought about that? I have seen a bull and somehow I am guessing it is not a good ide



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2000
    Location
    OvertheHillBillies Land, where PD\'s roam & thongs are dependable
    Posts
    1,345

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    Could this be a game of smoke & mirrors to possibly cover something else? Have been watching this whole situation and its a very sad one all around.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
    Location
    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    4,072

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radio talk:
    Could this be a game of smoke & mirrors to possibly cover something else? Have been watching this whole situation and its a very sad one all around. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Methinks you have found the core of the matter. Remember- the tissue samples are allegedly from these horses...if they knew for sure what they had, it might not be so imperative to exhume them. Then again, Sally Jackson should, IMHO, be able to do whatever she wants with that horses remains. Period.

    ASB trainers are not a bit different than most others- they do assume a proprietary air about a horse that they have sold through their barn a bit.

    Methinks that, in Dena's case, she doth protesteth overmuch...
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
    Posts
    920

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    The court order is necessary because the horse owned by Sally Jackson is buried on property owned by Dena Lopez. The other horse in the grave was owned by Dena.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
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    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    CA ASB...

    I believe that the point that has been made endlessly across the internet is that if Dena truly wanted to help the situation, no court order would be necessary.

    Everyone is sympathetic to Dena's feelings about the horse...now onto determining who is responsible. Hopefully !!
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
    Posts
    100

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    "the tissue samples are allegedly from these horses...if they knew for sure what they had, it might not be so imperative to exhume them."

    The KY State Police are in possession of the evidence. They were there when the samples were collected, tagged and logged into evidence. The State Police cannot hold an item as evidence in a case if there is not a clear chain of possession and recording of what, when, where and how the evidence was obtained.

    In other words, they KNOW what they have. Period.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2003
    Location
    itty bitty town, GA
    Posts
    3,003

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stegall:
    OK, I am not an expert in the burying of horses, but I am not sure I understand this. Am I the only kid on the block who has never heard this is an unacceptable practice?
    Personally, if my two older mares were euthanized at the same time, I would likely bury them together-they are lifelong friends, and I think it would be appropriate. Although, my mares aren't world champions either.

    In any case, lets say I am living under a rock and this is a disrespectful practice in the horse world, I don't believe its illegal or unethical. Why add it to the list of charges?

    Of course, I am assuming that they were buried both lying on their sides with backs touching?

    Someone want to clue me in so I can get out of my fog? I'm just confused by the statement..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Just so you'll know how horses are normally buried together - there is no "placement" of anything. There is simply a large hole dug and the horses are literally pushed in on top of each other. We have buried broodmares together before - they were long time pasturemates and both were getting too old to withstand a harsh winter as they could not keep their weight. The realities of how horses are buried are not pretty but it is virtually impossible to pick up a 1000+ lb horse and "place" it. If WE&W and Prince Charming are really buried back to back, it meant digging an extremely wide hole and going to extreme measures to place them in that manner.

    Just thought you'd like to know http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif. And it isn't illegal to bury horses together.
    Susan N.

    Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 26, 2003
    Location
    midwesterner with a southern heart
    Posts
    102

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    I am very confused. As an former owner of a syndicated horse the trainer and rider involved did not have the final say as to the final plans for our horse whether that be a new owner, retirement or burial for whatever reason.That was spelled out in our legal contract. My trainer consults me frequently about everyting and most of the time she makes the final decisions about the training, care, traveling, shows but I do know what is going on and can say no whenever I want to whatever.
    I send several horse to her for months at a time and we are in frequent contact. i know that she has some big time horses that train with her fulltime and she is in constant contact with those owners.
    I could not imagine her burying a horse at her farm without the owners permission.in fact of the owners she has Ithink most of them would be present and right on top of everything going on with the vet, investigation and the humane destruction of the horse. And if the owner later wanted to pay the expenses to have the horse exhumed or even moved she would not interfere regardless of her thoughts on the subject.
    I think there is something going own with this situation with the trainer that we do not know about.Idon't mean anything illegal.Why can't they do with the horse body as they please?
    Ifmy horses had been injured and then died under these circumstance Iwould be doing everything Icould to find the cause and the person responsible. Too bad if the trainer did not want to cooperate with my efforts.
    Ishe world of saddlebred owners and trainers different for the rest of the horse world in how they horse careers are managed?makes wonder if every little thing between an owner and trainer now has to be spelled out in a contract.i hope the jackson find the person(s) responsible and can let thier horse rest in peace.As for ownership of ribbons and prizes etc. i pay my trainer to ride my horses at shows and any other prizes including money, ribbons, trophies etc comes to me although I often give some of these things to the trainer.this whole situation sounds like to people both hurting overthe loss of these horses.both trying to hold onto what they can of the horse.Sadly Dena lost a horse of her own and has that horse and everything about it at her place. i am notsure the reason she cannot let the jacksons have the same.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
    Posts
    100

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    "in fact of the owners she has I think most of them would be present and right on top of everything going on with the vet, investigation and the humane destruction of the horse."
    ***********************************************
    As was the owner of this horse in this case.

    Just because someone files a suit/injunction, whatever, does not mean the story is correct. You are all basing your "ideas" and "opinions" on this case on ONE side of this story, the stuff you are reading in magazines and in newspapers, which has been supplied by one side of this case. Both sides have YET to be heard in a court of law. Not all suits/injunctions are based on the truth, just that person's idea of the truth. It's up to the courts to determine who isi right/wrong in this case.

    Let's wait and see what the courts decide in this case.



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