Help me brainstorm a list of refining stallions . . .
Seeing how I now own two rather old-fashioned mares, I thought it would be a good idea to brainstorm a list of refining stallions for them (or at least stallions that won't ADD more height or subtance). I am breeding for dressage. Mares bloodlines are Weltmeyer/Rubinstein/Salut and Donnerschlag/Matrose/Wolfsburg. Here's the catch . . . I am in Canada and I don't want to deal with the whole CEM thing, so I am limiting my list to stallions standing in Europe with good quality frozen semen or stallions standing in Canada. Stallions must be approved Hanoveian or GOV. Sandro Hit and sons seem like obvious choices, but I am looking for alternatives. The only ones I could come up with are Londonderry and Belissimo M.
Benidetto definitely does refine and nicely, too. He's a Bellissimo M son. I have a coming 2 yo filly that will probably reach 16.1. Her dam is Don Crusador/Womderland with a good bit of bone and stands 16.3. Very nice type and friendly too. He does have frozen available, stands in the US but breeders use frozen in Germany. Talk to Linda of Walnut Farm for info about him. Peg
Last edited by Peg; Jan. 14, 2011 at 06:45 PM.
Reason: More infi
Thinking outside the box since he competes in jumpers, what about Futurist (For Pleasure/Madison)? Says he is modern on their website, 16.1HH and did well on his performance testing "He passed his performance test with an excellent score of 127 points, achieving top scores in both the jumping phase (128.64 points) and the rideability phase (122.81 points) of the test."
Autocrat though he is bigger 16.3HH
Dampezzo, bigger as well (17HH) but I saw him in person and he is definatley not heavier in type.
Autocrat will refine. I bred my HUGE older style Han mare to him in 07 and while the resulting filly is also very tall, she is lighter framed and boned and has very long legs.
Benidetto would also be good (I bought some semen for the above mentioned mare but sold her before I was able to use it). And yes, forsure Londonderry.
Would not use Harvard or any Hohenstein line for refinement as everything I have seen from that line is very large framed/substantial.
Maybe Dancier? I saw two youngsters this year from larger framed Swedish mares and they were very elegant, light in bone/frame and pretty. Also on the smaller side. Beowulf farms has one..have you seen her? He himself is quite elegant and I think around 16.2hh. Beautiful! horse he is. I don't know forsure though, I haven't seen many in the flesh.
What about Freestyle? Is he considered refining? I only know that I found a lot of offspring by him that I really liked, they were all pretty refined and compact, I liked their type and movement a lot.
I really liked dealing with the people at Dreamscape, maybe another of their stallions?
Clearly refining means different things to different folks.
For exemple I saw Dampezzo in person too and I think he is massive! Knowing his owner I think she would be slightly "miffed" at hearing that he is considered anything but massive and big as she likes them that way.
You might want to look to the Rubinstein line, even though one of your mares carries him in her pedigree. Romanov, Rubin Royal, Royal Classic, etc. Don't know how much Royal Classic will refine, though - he has Florestan, Dream of Glory, Landadel, etc., in his pedigree. What about Rascalino or Royal Blend? The latter has Lauries Crusador as damsire. There is also the Rubinstein son Rubinus at Dreamscape.
Downside is this line typically does not give a big trot, but upside is it often produces a very good walk.
His semen is stored at Select Breeders but collected in Germany. They actually offer a LFG, but it's pricey.
You can't deny the success the Dutch have had with Trakehner sires on their mares, many of which probably have similar characteristics as yours. Also in Germany there is a lot of Donnerhall-Trak success.
Aren't there the same import issues with CEM for frozen semen or is it just easier to deal with because you aren't on the clock with semen viability? There is sure a lot more CEM risk in European collected semen than there is in the US.
Yep it is interesting Formosus, that we saw him differently, lol. I thought he was quite modern though tall. However, Michele's original stallion Bri-Mel's Ruhm I thought was quite substantial and bred him to a few of my TB mares many years ago.
Great suggestions everyone. Connery and Imperio are very interesting. I like the idea of an outcross.
Will definitely look into Dauphin and Dancier as well. Really like Romanov too. Does he throw the typical flatter trot that many R-line horses have? He seems to have a pretty flamboyant trot himself. Might be an interesting cross on the Donnerschlag mare.
Freestyle . . . totally love him. He definitely refined my very old fashioned Wolkenstein II mare. I already have 2 mares from his blood though (Freestyle x Wolkenstein II and Belissimo M x Freestyle) so would like to try something different.
Wolkentanz II . . . absolutely adore this stallion. Isn't he massive though??? Does he throw size?