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  1. #1
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    Default Lea Michele/PETA/ Carriages in NYC




  2. #2
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    Default Not usually a fan of PETA

    SI've never seen a NYC carriage horse before so I don't know how they are managed, but that was one of the "better" PETA ads I've seen.
    Foaling Around www.facebook.com/foalingaround
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  3. #3
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    Default

    I'm not a PETA fan, but I've seen the carriage horses on the streets of New York, and it is scary. The traffic is dangerous enough for those in automobiles, never mind a horse. And that's before you factor in the possibility a horse could spook, bolt, etc.

    When I saw the mule carriages in New Orleans, it seemed like they had a little set route through the historic district that didn't involve too much car traffic.

    I'm not familiar with the living conditions for the horses in New York City, but I can believe they are far from ideal.
    Last edited by MHM; Jan. 5, 2011 at 11:35 PM.



  4. #4
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    NYC carriage horse electrocuted & killed

    For some reason, I always think of that story when I think of NYC carriage horses. My parents are both from Long Island and I feel as if I half grew up in NYC, visiting all the time. Those are some sad looking horses. Horses don't belong in New York City. They don't go home to a farm, either, they go home to a closet. What an awful life, IMO.

    Amy

    "I decided I am going to live, or at least try to live, the way I want,
    with dignity, with courage, with humor, with composure."



  5. #5
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    Default

    I'm sure there are bad companies and good companies in the horse/carriage business in NYC. I'd just like to speak up for one of the good companies.

    We first met the folks at Chateau way back in the 70s at a driving show. While getting ready for the first class, we all noticed a new trailer with carriage arriving. Lovely, BIG antique carriage, nice draft cross to pull it. Turns out the daughter wanted to show in an American Driving Society show with her pony. Dad had told her she needed to be at a certain point to bring the pony out in public. She wasn't quite ready so he offered her the choice. Wait for another show with the pony, or he'd take Duke off the street for the day and she could drive him.

    She did, he was great, we all fell in like with both the horse and the family. The horse and carriage were spit polish clean and did a wonderful job at the show.

    Chateau, at the time had a contract with the "Stockman" steak house (may have the name wrong) to provide guests rides from local hotels to the restaurant. They had horses in the park, and they also provided some of the horses to the Metropolitan Opera.

    Poor and abused these horse were NOT. They have regular vacations from the city at a farm in PA and retire then when they can no longer work.

    Shortly after she was 20, the daughter had a serious stroke and has made a good recovery with the help of the horses at a therapeutic center and at their stables. Wanting to give back, they now make their horses available to a therapeutic group in Manhattan at their stable, which has a small indoor.

    There are many regulations to protect the horses and there are many owners who would be following them to the letter anyway because that is how they work (I realize there are other owners who won't).

    Would it be great if the car drivers would take a bit of care of the horses? Yes... or if the city had a way of reducing traffic on the route to the area many stable in during equine "rush hour" at shift changes. But in our world of "you are in my way and blocking me from my desire to move so MOVE IT" I guess that would be too much to ask.

    Personally, the well cared for horses have a place in the city, if for no other reason that to give people a small chance at connecting to animals in another way.



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drive NJ View Post
    I'm sure there are bad companies and good companies in the horse/carriage business in NYC. I'd just like to speak up for one of the good companies.

    Poor and abused these horse were NOT. They have regular vacations from the city at a farm in PA and retire then when they can no longer work.

    There are many regulations to protect the horses and there are many owners who would be following them to the letter anyway because that is how they work (I realize there are other owners who won't).

    Personally, the well cared for horses have a place in the city, if for no other reason that to give people a small chance at connecting to animals in another way.

    Drive NJ I think you were given rose colored glasses by these people.

    The Shamrock is easy to miss. It is tucked beneath a rundown underpass, with makeshift graffiti-covered gates and old boarded-up doorways.

    A peek inside reveals a world of gray and chestnut horses, row after row, all in cramped standing stalls 4 feet wide by 10 feet long, tied up by their halters. They are unable to move more than a few inches.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/17/ny...or-horses.html



  7. #7
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    Default

    Accidents:

    Carriage Horse vs. Bus in Midtown NYC - 6 Nov 2010
    Tourist Killed by Bolting Horse - 8 Aug 2010
    Horses Kill 1, Injure 23 at Iowa 4th of July Parade - 4 Jul 2010
    Unreported Carriage Accident in New York City - 1 May 2010
    Car Crashes Into Horse Carriages in Philadelphia's Old City - 19 Apr 2010
    Carriage Crash Victims Identified - 19 Apr 2010
    Unmanned Horse Carriage Bolts in Vienna - 9 Apr 2010
    Broken Ribs, Smashed Carriage and Spooked Horse Mar Spring Night - 6 Apr 2010
    Horse Drawn Carriage Involved In Hit-and-Run - 25 Dec 2009
    Horse Breaks Free from Carriage in Cincinnati’s Hyde Park Square - 23 Dec 2009
    Car Hits Horse-drawn Virginia Holiday Wagon; 14 Hurt - 15 Dec 2009
    Runaway Carriage Horse Scatters Crowd at Peddlers Village - 6 Dec 2009
    Two Hurt as Taxi Hits Carriage - 20 Sep 2009
    Horse Leads Tourists on Wild Ride Through Downtown Salt Lake City - 30 Aug 2009
    Carriage Crash Injures Horse in Philadelphia - 29 Aug 2009
    Pony-cart Driver Injured Near Quebec City - 29 Aug 2009
    Spooked Horse Collides with Carriage; Bystanders Injured - 7 Aug 2009
    Car Hits Horse and Buggy in Coventry RI - 26 Jul 2009
    Carriage Horse Runs Loose in Downtown San Antonio - 4 Jul 2009
    Buggy Mishap Kills Harness Racer - 23 Jun 2009
    Horse Runs Buck Wild Through S.F. - 6 Jun 2009
    Boy Dies in Horse and Carriage Accident - 6 Jun 2009
    Two Horses Killed and Two Women Injured - 1 Jun 2009
    Spooked Horse Tosses Carriage Driver at Ogden Point - 29 Mar 2009
    Vienna Tourists Hang on as Carriage Horses Bolt - 1 Jan 2009
    Horse-Drawn Carriage Runs Amok in Berlin - 27 Dec 2008
    Woman trampled in horse carriage in Britain - 1 Dec 2008
    Another Carriage Horse Accident In Charleston - 22 Oct 2008/li>
    Horses Pulling Funeral Carriage Crashes Into Car - 17 Oct 2008
    Panicked Horses Bolt with Wedding Carriage - 1 Sep 2008
    Car Rear Ends Horse and Buggy in Colorado
    Horse Spooks in New Holland, PA - 19 Aug 2008
    Horse-drawn carriage drove over man during film shoot in Riga - 8 Aug 2008
    Horse spooked; surrey riders dumped in street - 7 Aug 2008
    After Throwing Rider, Police Horse Returns Home Alone - 3 May 2008
    CINCINNATI CARRIAGE ACCIDENT - 13 Apr 2008
    Woman dies in carriage accident in Kentucky - 22 Mar 2008
    Carriage crashes on Aspen street - 13 Mar 2008
    Man dies after horse-drawn carriage is struck by vehicle - 10 Mar 2008
    HORSE SPOOKS IN QUEENS ST. PAT'S DAY PARADE - 2 Mar 2008
    Spooked horses bolt at a funeral - 8 Feb 2008
    Charlotte, SC - Carriage Accident Injures Six - 11 January 2008
    Horse-Drawn Carriage Accident, Alton, TX - 22 December 2007
    Plaza Horse Carriage Crash Raises Concerns - 16 December 2007
    Horse and carriage rides will resume after accident, Brampton, Ontario, Canada - 14 December 2007
    Horse dies in bizarre accident - 14 December 2007
    Man, 76, dies in horse and carriage accident - 10 October 2007
    Investigating the Death of Smoothie - 17 September 2007
    Carriage horse dies in accident near Central Park - 14 September 2007
    9 Injured in Buggy Accident - 28 August 2007
    9 Hurt at County Nursing Home Event: Horse-and-Wagon Accident Occurs During Picnic - 17 August 2007
    CALECHE CRASHES IN OLD MONTREAL - 7 August 2007
    Child Killed in Carriage Crash - 24 July 2007
    HORSE & TAXI IN TALE OF WHOA - 5 July 2007
    Carriage horse spooks on Central Park South - 4 July 2007
    HORSE RUNS LOOSE ON CARRIAGE RIDE - 12 June 2007
    Accident on Seventh Avenue and 56th Street - 2 June 2007
    Accident on Central Park South at Grand Army Plaza - 13 April 2007
    Downtown Carriage Driver Run Over by Runaway Buggy - 15 March 2007
    LITTLE GIRL DIES IN TRAGIC ACCIDENT - 22 February 2007
    Horse Recovers After Getting Hit By Car - 3 December 2006
    Horse wedged on roadside railings - 30 November 2006
    For Central Park Carriage Horse, Death Arrives Inelegantly - 16 September 2006
    Horse Collapses in Central Park - 15 September 2006
    BARN FIRE IN MEMPHIS KILLS SEVEN SHOW HORSES - 8 July 2006
    Carriage Horse Breaks Free in City Streets Again - 22 June 2006
    Wild West Side Horse Crash - 5 May 2006
    MAN INJURED BY SPOOKED HORSE IN CENTRAL PARK - 29 April 2006

    Spooked horse ran wild in Central Park - 28 April 2006

    BARN FIRE RULED ACCIDENTAL, BUT CAUSE UNKNOWN - 11 April 2006

    TWO DOZEN HORSES PERISH IN STABLE FIRE - 24 March 2006

    13 HORSES PERISH IN CHARLESTOWN FIRE - 20 March 2006

    HORSES PERISH IN HUNTERDON COUNTY FIRE - 15 March 2006

    RUNAWAY HORSES HURT TUCSON MAYOR, WIFE - 24 February 2006

    HORSE BOLTS & INJURES 3 IN MIDTOWN - 3 January 2006

    Horrific hansom cab accident - 2 January 2006

    HORSE COLLAPSES ON STREET - 1 October 2005

    FEAR UNBRIDLED; 2 HORSES ASTRAY IN CITY - 14 May 2005

    CARRIAGE RIDES GONE WILD - 25 October 2003

    STUCK IN TRAFFIC - 22 January 2002

    A taxi cab collided with a horse-drawn carriage - 26 November 2001

    HORSE MAKES IMPRESSION - 9 November 2000

    HANSOM HORSE’S TALE OF WHOA - 2 November 2000

    CARRIAGE HORSE ESCAPES DRAFT - 5 September 2000

    BUGGY TUMBLES TOSSES TOURISTS - 28 August 2000

    32 HORSES ARE KILLED IN WESTCHESTER FIRE - 11 July 2000

    BROOKLYN STABLE FIRE KILLS 54 HORSES - 11 June 2000

    BROOKLYN STABLE FIRE KILLS 21 HORSES TRAPPED IN STALLS - 11 June 2000

    BRONCO GOES BONKERS ON AVENUE - 27 April 2000

    BOLTING CARRIAGE HORSE HURTS 2 - 9 August 1999

    CARRIAGE HIT - 1 July 1999

    HORSE BUGGY DRIVER HURT IN HIT-RUN - 28 June 1999

    A HERO AND TWO HORSES - 21 June 1999

    CARRIAGE HORSE IS ELECTROCUTED ON STREET - 1 January 1999

    3 HORSES DIED IN ONE YEAR - 16 August 1998

    ANOTHER HORSE WHO COLLAPSED FROM HUMID HEAT DIED - 16 August 1998

    WHITEY IN THE PINK - 16 August 1998

    RUNAWAY HORSE KILLED BY VAN - 29 April 1998

    CARRIAGE RIDE TURNS INTO BRONCO BUST - 13 January 1998

    TOURIST RUN OVER BY HORSE - 24 November 1997

    An elderly woman was seriously injured - 4 September 1997

    HANSOM HORSE DIES IN HARNESS - 1 May 1997

    HANSOM-CAB HORSE DIES ON STREET - 2 September 1996

    Picture of injured or dead carriage horse on NYC TV station - 7 May 1994

    END OF THE ROAD - 21 April 1994

    DEATH OF CARRIAGE HORSE PROBED SAME OWNER HAD ONE DIE 2 WEEKS AGO - 26 August 1991

    Accident Diagram - 15 May 1990

    TOO HOT TO TROT A HORSE - 15 August 1988

    LOST HIS STEP - 23 May 1988

    Frightened by a passing car - 9 November 1986

    ANOTHER RUNAWAY CARRIAGE HORSE - 9 December 1985

    HORSE BOLTS, HITS CAR - 9 December 1985

    13 HURT AS FRIGHTENED HORSE HITS RUNNERS IN PARK - 2 January 1983


    http://www.all-creatures.org/article...-shdc-acc.html



  8. #8
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    Jun. 28, 2003
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    Default

    They can't be that bad with an offer of a stable tour out there and a bunch of publicity.

    I never said all services were good, just don't lump them all together.

    http://nycspecialtours.com/

    http://www.equestria.org/
    info on the therapeutic riding at their manhattan stables

    I believe there are videos of the stables, showing classes etc on the Equestria site.

    Standing stalls are quite normal in many parts of the world for a long time - including these places

    http://www.starfirefarm.com/Geldings...the_school.jpg
    Fjord testing site

    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/mr-ce/imag...ll-stalle2.jpg
    Royal Canadian Mounted Police on tour

    http://uk.gfx.tripist.com/photos/125...royal_mews.jpg
    The Royal Mews in London
    Last edited by Drive NJ; Jan. 6, 2011 at 03:22 PM.



  9. #9
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Default

    Sigh!

    For a video that is meant to show how horrible life is for them it really does not show anything that horrific.

    I used to like Glee.



  10. #10
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    Default

    There was a thread on here recently about a carriage operator who retired her horse, retired it to a kill buyer, that is. And then claimed she didn't know anything about it.

    I don't have time to watch the video, but pulling a carriage in NYC traffic and then going to a standing stall is no life for a horse, full stop. And I seriously doubt they get out to a farm for a vacation or for retirement -- it makes no economic sense, and hello, that's what the carriage drivers are most interested in -- not horsie, but $$$.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMF11 View Post
    There was a thread on here recently about a carriage operator who retired her horse, retired it to a kill buyer, that is. And then claimed she didn't know anything about it.

    I don't have time to watch the video, but pulling a carriage in NYC traffic and then going to a standing stall is no life for a horse, full stop. And I seriously doubt they get out to a farm for a vacation or for retirement -- it makes no economic sense, and hello, that's what the carriage drivers are most interested in -- not horsie, but $$$.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/StopLies.../2/Yj2JZy6vWLU
    Don't lump them all together.

    and seriously, that video? Typical PETA. Putting WAY too much human emotion into animals. "Being forced to work" ect ect...um, EVERY time we ride a horse it's being "forced to work". And it didn't show anything terrible.



  12. #12
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    Apr. 22, 2008
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    I wish she (they) would have addressed real issues, like traffic safety rather than fake ones like "being forced to breathe exhaust fumes all day" and "the poor horsies have to sleep standing up!" and "forced to walk up a long ramp after a hard day's work!!!"

    I would guess the exhaust issue is true all of the city residents, human and animal are abused in that way, ( OMG we must rescue all of the squirrels and pigeons now before they develop lung cancer!). Stairs for people should be banned, especially after a long day's work. Everyone has a right to an elevator in their building. And every one should have THIS 1500.00 bed to come home to after a long day in the sweatshop... err cubicle.

    This video loses it's credibility with me on account of the truth stretching and lies. Lose the drama and tell me the truth.

    How can I trust PETA to to give me accurate information about other things when they try to deceive me on issues like this, which I do have some knowledge about. I have no respect for people who lie to me, whether I agree with their basic premise or not. Period.



  13. #13
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    Mar. 23, 2005
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    Default

    Honestly… I don’t know what I think about this. All of us here know that horses pulling carriages isn’t inherently bad (unlike apparently what PETA would lead you to believe), but with the stupid (car) drivers and the general stupidity of non-horse savvy people everywhere, perhaps it isn’t the safest thing to do? Where are the horses stabled, in NYC? I definitely saw a carriage all the way in Times Square when I was last there, and couldn't figure out why (I thought they weren't allowed anywhere but the streets surrounding the Park?).

    Plus, these are horses who honestly don’t have many other prospects in the performance world. With her salary, is she prepared to either pay to euthanize all of them or pay for every horse to be retired? Because I can practically guarantee that the carriage company can’t afford that.



  14. #14
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    I am a true PETA advocate- People Eating Tasty Animals You KNEW that phrase was going to pop up!

    I really don't have a problem with what I saw, the horses weren't freaked by the cars or traffic, look like they would make great trail/hubbie mounts after there carriage time is up.

    The "big, steep, scary ramp" really??? I canter and trot my horses up steeper hills as part of their conditioning, or if I'm having a horsie "must get back to the barn" issue.

    Sure it would be nice if the stalls were bigger, but the larger one that she complained about not having enough bedding looked matted to me, and many people don't use deep bedding on mats.

    And yes, it would be nice if they could all have time off in a pasture, but what about show horses whose lives are lived either working or in a stall? Not my thing, but to each his own.

    I could be wrong, but I have always been told that pulling a cart is lighter work than being ridden.

    Lastly, to the poster with the long list of death and injury, if I had the inclination, which I don't, I could produce an equally long list of horses killed in trail, showing and pasture accidents. Does that mean that all horse activities should be banned?

    LBR
    I reject your reality, and substitute my own- Adam Savage

    R.I.P Ron Smith, you'll be greatly missed



  15. #15
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    The buckskin draftie in the Stopliestellthetruth vid is adorable!!!!!

    How do the get the number in his hoof? How can they be sure not to go too deep?

    LBR
    I reject your reality, and substitute my own- Adam Savage

    R.I.P Ron Smith, you'll be greatly missed



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladybugred View Post
    Lastly, to the poster with the long list of death and injury, if I had the inclination, which I don't, I could produce an equally long list of horses killed in trail, showing and pasture accidents. Does that mean that all horse activities should be banned?

    LBR
    That would be me-- "the list" was to show the death and injuries related to cars/traffic/city life which is the topic of the thread.

    I would hate to come back as one of the posters horses who think its okay for horses to stand in "standing stalls" and would thus call it my version of hell to be one of their horses.

    Horses need to rest laying down daily, IMO. I have never known a horse not to lay down and rest/roll etc daily atleast for a few minutes. Why don't you go stand up for 24 hours/7 days a week in the shower with day trip walks around the block.

    This would be hell and anyone who thinks that is acceptable has no business owning a horse.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladybugred View Post
    The buckskin draftie in the Stopliestellthetruth vid is adorable!!!!!

    How do the get the number in his hoof? How can they be sure not to go too deep?

    LBR
    It's done via a hot brand. La Cense (at least the MT ranch.. not sure about the one in France) does this to identify their quarter horses. Each horse has the permanent infinity symbol brand and a number on their hoof.
    http://www.netposse.com/prevrec/hoof_brand_example.htm
    This says that farriers usually do it, and it only takes a couple of seconds.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaii View Post
    Horses need to rest laying down daily, IMO. I have never known a horse not to lay down and rest/roll etc daily atleast for a few minutes. Why don't you go stand up for 24 hours/7 days a week in the shower with day trip walks around the block.
    But, the thing you are missing is, horses do lay down in tie/straight stalls.
    Tie/straight stalls are not uncommon at all. I have yet to meet a horse who found them an issue to lay down and take a nap in.

    I know it might be news to you, but humans and horses are designed differently. So your little analogy simply show how you think (or don't think really) instead of using facts.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladybugred View Post
    Lastly, to the poster with the long list of death and injury, if I had the inclination, which I don't, I could produce an equally long list of horses killed in trail, showing and pasture accidents. Does that mean that all horse activities should be banned?

    LBR
    According to PETA.org, yes.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaii View Post

    I would hate to come back as one of the posters horses who think its okay for horses to stand in "standing stalls" and would thus call it my version of hell to be one of their horses.

    Well then you need to go give the uncaring morons at Cornell University a good talking to. They kept 40+ horses (school and polo horses) in straight stalls at the riding barn when I was there. I mucked those stalls, and rode those horses. They seemed pretty healthy to me. The 'boarder' barn had box stalls, and the University kept other horses and livestock all over the place in all kinds of management scenarios.

    Including standing/tie stalls for horses.



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