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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    1,631

    Default Breeders who have *left* their original breed registry

    I am curious to hear from warmblood breeders and stallion owners who have left their horses' original breed registry or have effectively moved their breeding program (same breeding stock) to another registry which accepts multiple "breeds" such as Oldenburg N.A., RPSI, AWR, etc.

    I understand that some stallion owners will have their stallions inspected and approved by multiple registries in order to offer their stallions to a larger market. The motivation for that is obvious. My question is for people who may or may not already have stallions and mares approved in their original registry but have decided to have them inspected elsewhere and to produce offspring registered in the newly "adopted" registry versus the one the sire and/or dam were first registered.

    Why did you decide to leave your registry, where did you go, did you have a better experience with the new registry and if you had it to do all over again would you do the same or would you do something different?

    Please feel free to give as little or as much detail as you feel comfortable providing.
    Altamont Sport Horses
    Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
    Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
    Birmingham, AL



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Location
    Western South Dakota
    Posts
    2,401

    Default

    We didn't exactly leave a registry but chose RPSI for the flexibility of using all the warmbood breeds. Our original stallion Meisterwind is 100% Trakehner and registered as such. He was never presented to the ATA for a variety of reasons I won't go into here. When we became aware of RPSI, it just seemed a better fit for our program. Hosting a Keuring made so much more sense than hauling mares and foals across the country. We've been happy with RPSI, they treat people well and appreciate their breeders.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2010
    Posts
    66

    Default

    If I had it to do all over again, I would never spend a dime to any warmblood registry, inspection process, trailering all over the dickens to inspection spots, multiple approving of my mares to comply with the ever changing 'what registry has the stallion owner of my chosen stallion paid and activated this year?' registry, only to be told that my jumper/hunter isn't a dressage horse.

    I would put all the money towards training, showing, clinics, improving the footing in my riding arena, maybe building a small indoor, more varied gear, etc.

    I think the registries are a complete waste of time and money, don't accomplish anything in the marketplace as it pertains to the United States. Now don't get me wrong, I do like Europe and prefer to deal over there than here.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2005
    Location
    Maryland somewhere near Camp David!
    Posts
    2,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanaL View Post
    If I had it to do all over again, I would never spend a dime to any warmblood registry, inspection process, trailering all over the dickens to inspection spots, multiple approving of my mares to comply with the ever changing 'what registry has the stallion owner of my chosen stallion paid and activated this year?' registry, only to be told that my jumper/hunter isn't a dressage horse.

    I would put all the money towards training, showing, clinics, improving the footing in my riding arena, maybe building a small indoor, more varied gear, etc.

    I think the registries are a complete waste of time and money, don't accomplish anything in the marketplace as it pertains to the United States.
    I applaud your honesty!

    Many Hunter people feel this way too. The majority of registries are geared to Dressaage or Jumper horses as that is what European registries are geared to. Most registries wish to remain blissfully oblivious to the very FACT that more than 50% of horses exhibited in this country show in HUNTERS.

    Who needs to spend $500+ to learn that their exceptional hunter baby doesn't move like a dressage/jumper AND then maybe wait more than a year for papers?

    Registration is important, but I do like the idea of Footing for my riding arena or the small indoor
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,658

    Default

    Yeah, I'm not getting this whole inspection thing either. Somebody explain it to me as you don't do that in Europe or am I mistaken?. I'm in Ireland and have a foalbook KWPN mare out of a TB mare. I can haul her to England for her IBOP test but I'm not sure if I will do that. She will be competing in sport so may leave it at that. Color me confused and don't know if I could put up with all that fuss either. I'm sure I have it completely wrong, but I don't know.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2005
    Posts
    1,915

    Default

    I'm another one who finds the politics of studbooks frustrating. Its one of the reasons why I'm with the SHB(GB) as they allow you to use any stallion approved with an WBFSH studbook. I just wish they would turn more of their attention to the breeding of sportshorses rather than show horses.

    What I'm hugely disillusioned with is Mare Performance tests. I know of one champion of her MPT (not SHB(GB)) who paces like a camel. Another reserve champion who was so wild she bolted as the test rider tried to get on and almost decked them. Her trainability has not improved in the intervening years. My own mare isn't going for her MPT until she is 6 or 7 because over here the numbers forward are small and older horses are judged against young ones. Without a big number of young horses to get their eye in it is too easy for the judges to be seduced by the superior muscling and strength of the older horses and mark the young ones down simply for being young.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post
    I applaud your honesty!

    Many Hunter people feel this way too. The majority of registries are geared to Dressaage or Jumper horses as that is what European registries are geared to. Most registries wish to remain blissfully oblivious to the very FACT that more than 50% of horses exhibited in this country show in HUNTERS.

    Who needs to spend $500+ to learn that their exceptional hunter baby doesn't move like a dressage/jumper AND then maybe wait more than a year for papers?

    Registration is important, but I do like the idea of Footing for my riding arena or the small indoor
    You knew I'd agree with you on this didn't you? LOL



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2010
    Posts
    113

    Default

    The Europeans have been developing their warmblood breeds for over 100 yrs.Americans just started to get on the warmblood "bandwagon" in the last 30-40 yrs.
    In Europe "hunters" is not consisdered a sport!!!!! You might note that it's not in the Olympics .For years in this country most hunter barns have relied on the cheap availablity of the OTTTB and the TB has been very suitable as a hunter.
    In my experiance with our area hunter barns who also bred warmbloods for sales or their own use.There isn't a big interest in registering their warmbloods or spending the time and money going to the inspections. They seem to be happy with being able to say we have a "Balta Czar" or a "All the Gold" or a "Westporte" baby out of a "Swedish" mare. Most of the time they couldn't prove the breeding and the bloodline history is vague. This is not because they are trying to be dishonest it is because they (hunter people) don't really find it important.So many fabulous bloodlines are wasted or lost because of the hunter/jumper habit of changing a horses show name and also not filling out "change of ownerships" forms for the breed registries.
    Sorry to ramble on but I feel that Americans horseman and breeders are
    ignoring some wonderful ,valuble bloodlines that may be in their own barn.
    If anyone is to blame for this it is the breed registries whose fees are too high and encourage horse people not to bother .



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    513

    Default

    I have two Canadian Sport Horse registered mares, and one NAWPN registered mare. I register all the foals with the Canadian Warmblood Horse Breeders Association. I used to register Canadian Sport Horse, but Canadian Warmblood works better for me now. All my foals get registered with them regardless of pedigree. Some of my friends may argue that the foals out of the Dutch mare should get registered Dutch, but I rather they go through life as Canadian Bred and Canadian Registered. In addition, going to multiple inspection is far too time consuming and costly.

    As you can see from this thread..the registration details are not that important to many customers, especially the hunter people...so why would I get excited about it. I do like to put papers on them so that I have proof of pedigree. I find people look for a certain type...or they are looking for a certain popular pedigree...a Westporte, a Redwine..etc. With papers there is proof that the horse is what you say it is.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    571

    Default

    My chosen breed does not have a sport horse program or inspection process for producing sport horses. Arabian sport horses come from everywhere within the breed. We have breeders advertising stallions as "Supreme Sport Horses" just because they won a Sport Horse In Hand class. Its ridiculous. So whereas, I understand the frustration with inspections and warmblood registries - at least you have a guideline to where your breeding program is headed. In 2008 I decided to jump the Arabian ship and swim for warmblood waters. I went with Hanoverian, as my favorite 2 stallions are Hanoverian, so I thought it was at least worth a try to get my mare approved. She was approved AHS and now has little baby Hanoverians that are also half Arabian. I have to say that the customer service with AHS is wonderful, very unlike AHA. So much so, that my little breeding endeavor has completely changed - no more purebred Arabians.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, VA
    Posts
    2,914

    Default

    Who needs to spend $500+ to learn that their exceptional hunter baby doesn't move like a dressage/jumper AND then maybe wait more than a year for papers?
    This just has not been my experience. The same attributes I see being rewarded right now in the hack at Harrisburg, Washington, Capital Challange, et al (elasticity, reaching/floating trot, moving over the back) are the same attributes I see rewarded at mare and foal inspections. THat is not to say an explosive, round, very active mover is not being rewarded as well at an inspection....but I am NOT seeing hte current, true "drop-dead hack winning trot" penalized. So I'm sorry, I can't agree.

    Things in the hunters have changed a whole lot in the last 25 years.
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2003
    Location
    The good 'ole State of denial
    Posts
    5,063

    Default

    I'm all over the board so far. Used the IHB in Ireland, and the IDHSNA and shifted to BWP b/c of a breeding to Cielo B. I was really happy with them for awhile...but my saga of late has severed that umbilical.

    My current mare is KWPN - that doesn't have inspections all that close to me. I'll be hoofing her and baby off to one for 2011 and then I'm not sure - I really like the studs in the Dutch studbook. It probably depends on how this goes, but if she goes to a Dutch stallion I'll stick with KWPN.

    I'll use IDHSNA in the future again as well, just haven't had anything Irish lately

    To me it's more about the horse then the registry.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2008
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanaL View Post
    If I had it to do all over again, I would never spend a dime to any warmblood registry, inspection process, trailering all over the dickens to inspection spots, multiple approving of my mares to comply with the ever changing 'what registry has the stallion owner of my chosen stallion paid and activated this year?' registry, only to be told that my jumper/hunter isn't a dressage horse.

    I would put all the money towards training, showing, clinics, improving the footing in my riding arena, maybe building a small indoor, more varied gear, etc.

    I think the registries are a complete waste of time and money, don't accomplish anything in the marketplace as it pertains to the United States. Now don't get me wrong, I do like Europe and prefer to deal over there than here.
    And how many people have posted on here moaning that they can't keep track of their offspring that they HAVE spent all the time and money on inspecting and registering?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,189

    Default

    I was considering doing so, but the leadership has just changed and so I'll give it another year and then just stick with the other Registry.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2009
    Posts
    60

    Default IHB to WSI

    I haven't done so yet but in the next couple of years I will be registering my eligible foals with WSI (Warmblood Studbook of Ireland) instead of the IHB (Irish horse board).

    It's a case of personal preference and a desire to support an admirable new initiative in sport horse breeding here. There is no issues or arguments between me and the IHB. I will occasionally breed one or two foals to the older Irish bloodlines which will make them ineligible for WSI approval, but I will have no problems going back to the IHB to register them.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2005
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Molly Malone View Post
    I was considering doing so, but the leadership has just changed and so I'll give it another year and then just stick with the other Registry.
    Do you mean you will stick with the original one or the new one ?
    Can you explain what factors specifically will affect your decision ?
    Thanks !



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
    Location
    Collingwood,ON
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    I did it. And I'm still not sure if I did the right thing.
    I originally started with Canadian Warmbloods. I was quite active in the BC chapter for a few years, volunteered my time and one year even was the inspection secretary for the stallion licensing and mare inspection here in BC (What a frustrating job! Hats off to you volunteers who make these things happen). I really liked the organization, the people who ran my chapter, and met some wonderful people and horses. I never had any problems with customer service. A few years ago I jumped ship to GOV. The reason I did so, was that I felt that my horses would be more marketable to a wider audience if they were registered with a major Euro registry. My homebred Canadian warmblood mare was elibible for the Main Mare book based on her pedigree and I registered her Belissimo M foal Oldenburg. I had a lovely time at both Oldenburg inspections I attended. I felt the inspectors were both strict in their standards, but also gracious and tactful. The site hosts were fantastic as well. The customer service from the office though was seriously lacking on a number of occasions though. So far, I don't think the "Oldenburg" label has helped me sell my foal (although that may have more to do with the economy than the registry). I honestly can't say if I would do it all over again. I have a few really excellent mares now and I would love to take them CWHBA and support my "home" registry, but I wonder if I would be shooting myself in the foot by registered their foals Canadian Warmblood instead of Hanoverian or GOV.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, NC
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    With ahf on this one - lots of the qualities for dressage are those we look for in hunters. Hunters are by nature SO trendy, you have to constantly watch what is winning. A lot HAS changed from the days of the predominantly TB ring of yore. No more quick-legged/shuffly daisy cutters. LOL My elderly TB mare that was always and forever the hack winner the late 80's/early 90's can't hold a candle now. Our two best hunter moving foals this year (big, reachy, elastic but flat kneed gaits) were awarded highly at inspection. But lord knows by the time the foals grow up the trend will be shifting...

    But that being said, we started with the AHS and GOV, and left the GOV completely with those mares for the RPSI, and now as our mares age out of the program and we need a few more, we are trying to change over to completely AHS. RPSI is fantastic customer service wise but the AHS has the whole package of quality, service, etc IMO. Also, I feel our AHS foals get the most credibility for quality, and likewise, I consider AHS horses the same way.

    For what little it costs to get the horses inspected/registered (drop in the bucket compared to showing, etc), it's worth it to us to produce registered offspring. And with the AHS you can register by mail if you don't mind forgoing the brand, so that makes it cheaper and easy. We know what certain registries' objectives are - and they do differ - and take that into consideration with their comments. We are so sure of what we are looking in our foals that we take the feedback seriously but we know what is applicable and what is not to what our personal goals are.

    The bottom line is that breeders care about pedigrees and registries, but most hunter buyers of adult horses do not. People are becoming more aware than ever, but for a hunter rider, if the horse can look and act the part, they don't care what it is.
    Signature Sporthorses
    www.signaturesporthorses.com



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfe View Post
    Do you mean you will stick with the original one or the new one ?
    Can you explain what factors specifically will affect your decision ?
    Thanks !
    I am currently a member of 3 registries. I will be a member of 2 for 2011 and for 2012 it'll be 1 or 2 depending on if one of the registries changes under its new leadership.

    There are a number of factors playing into what will make me decide one way or the other. Some of them are breed related, some of them are personal breeding decisions, some of them are actual physical reasons, and some of them are what visible benefits I want/need to see coming out of the new leadership.

    Hope that helps



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forte View Post
    I did it. And I'm still not sure if I did the right thing.
    I originally started with Canadian Warmbloods. I was quite active in the BC chapter for a few years, volunteered my time and one year even was the inspection secretary for the stallion licensing and mare inspection here in BC (What a frustrating job! Hats off to you volunteers who make these things happen). I really liked the organization, the people who ran my chapter, and met some wonderful people and horses. I never had any problems with customer service. A few years ago I jumped ship to GOV. The reason I did so, was that I felt that my horses would be more marketable to a wider audience if they were registered with a major Euro registry. My homebred Canadian warmblood mare was elibible for the Main Mare book based on her pedigree and I registered her Belissimo M foal Oldenburg. I had a lovely time at both Oldenburg inspections I attended. I felt the inspectors were both strict in their standards, but also gracious and tactful. The site hosts were fantastic as well. The customer service from the office though was seriously lacking on a number of occasions though. So far, I don't think the "Oldenburg" label has helped me sell my foal (although that may have more to do with the economy than the registry). I honestly can't say if I would do it all over again. I have a few really excellent mares now and I would love to take them CWHBA and support my "home" registry, but I wonder if I would be shooting myself in the foot by registered their foals Canadian Warmblood instead of Hanoverian or GOV.
    Thanks for posting this.
    I think it is a real catch-22 of having a less recognized registry. You need the horses with the quality to prove the registry has quality horses and is legitimate but if people find their sales do better with the European reg, than they will not use the local....
    Also the registry must prove that they can provide a service to the members. Like you said, there is tons of volunteer hours put in and the fees charged would not even cover half of the costs incurred.
    I guess I do not understand those who think that we can live in a sparse population and compare the costs of operation to that in a country where the membership is over 50 times higher and in less than a 1/10th of the space.
    If we have no registration, than breeding quality goes right out the window as a group.



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