[Coppers mom]

So, while you guys have managed to cure others on here, I've recently had a little life change that has encouraged me to breed my mare Thankfully, I realize that I have no idea what I'm doing.

Basically, I'm going away for quite a while, and my darling mare will be sitting in the pasture and turning into a fatty. She's incredible, and the surrounding community isn't happy that I'm not going to lease her out to someone to continue eventing on. But, I'm not going to be here to watch over the whole thing, so she's just going to sit.

Background on the mare: Thoroughbred, a little over 15.3 hands. Serious UL prospect, and not according to me. Unfortunately, I'm a pansy, so we'll never go further than prelim. Her family consistantly produces good feet, great canter, and excellent cross country horses. They are on the hotter side though, and not the biggest fans of dressage. I don't mind this so much though, as it makes them pretty simple and reliable. Conformationally, she's a bit long in the cannon, and could use a little more slope to her shoulder.

What I want: Exactly her, but with a little more dressage aptitude-something that could do about third level. I'm only 5'2", so I'm kind of torn between getting a hony that'll fit me like she does, or at least trying for something about 16 hands, in case something happens. And while she's fairly refined and light, I wouldn't want something much much heavier. The only complaint I could have when riding her is that she is a pretty intense mare. She is always switched on and tenses up very easily. While I wouldn't mind a little more relaxed version of her, I absolutely do not want something duller than she is; I love that she's naturally on the aids and takes things fairly literally ("Jump this? Ok" end of story).

So, any suggestions? Breed isn't really important, at this point.

Here is a conformation picture of her as a gangly two year old (you can see she's filled out quite a bit by the summer of her fourth year): http://www3.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...2677_15242677/

And a video of her as a four year old, after about 30 rides (not me, obviously): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3MU5pXXQPg

She's now six. Anyone else think that I've been neglecting this little darling when it comes to camera time

[NOMIOMI1]

Im assuming you want to breed to a WB?

Not too sleepy/heavy, right?

A couple of the Ferro horses I've ridden were extremely sharp but in a laid back way, but I do believe they were a bit heavier to medium build.

Not spooky but energetic IMO.

(Im no expert just giving you ideas from out of the TB mares I know)

I dunno if he is still breeding but I was happy with the TB crosses I saw from him (Ferro).


LOVED a mare from this guy

http://www.goldhopefarm.com/goodtimes.htm

Coolest energy without crazy mare, so super reasonable but ready to go.

I like this line for TB's also

http://www.bridlewoodhanoverians.com/donnerkeil.php

his babies kinda stamp though so it has to be what you want

[carolprudm]

http://www.belltowerstud.com/the_sta...argeant_pepper

http://www.irishdraught.com/horses/p....php?unid=5078

http://www.hiddencreekhorses.com/our-stallion.html

[Coppers mom]

Thanks guys! I don't need a WB, I was actually flipping through the Conn. thread that's also going.

I know I don't want an Irish Draught stallion for her though. If I were going to go Irish, he'd have to have a high percentage of TB.

[EventStrong]

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[Gayle in Oregon]

Sounds like you really want a more balanced dressage athlete but that is an all arounder who does it all or can do it all. What part of the country do you live in. I know some excellent ones but some dont ship (sperm lives in the container) as well.

[Coppers mom]

East Coast

[wehrlegirl]

On the ATA side.. check out Blitz und Donner.. def. all round. Our filly out of our anglo mare is just turning two in '11 and she has the added bone and athleticism, as well as size over her dam. The filly is just so nice we are repeating that cross from here on out..David Beattie said Blitz has some of his best offspring out of blooded mares. He is on the ATA link as well as the KD jumpers website. We've seen him in person and he is just a high quality animal that really stamps it.

[Ysabel]

I am not really a breeding expert... but here are some "all rounders" that I like in North America who have fresh semen available (most are Trakehners because I know they are popular for eventing and you said you would like something refined):

Viva Voltaire - http://www.charlotfarm.com/viva%20voltaire.htm

Escudo II - http://www.rainbowequus.com/EscudoII.htm

Heling - http://www.galtenfarms.com/

Herzzauber - http://www.meadowview.ca/stallions/herzzauber.htm

Lord Locksley (I don't know much about him , but he has recently sparked my interest and looks adorable) - http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/LordLocksley.asp

This last one isn't one of my personal favourites - but may be what you are looking for since he has both an eventing and dressage performance record:

Stiletto - http://www.valhallatrakehner.com/stiletto.htm


I don't know if I would go with frozen for a maiden mare but if you do go that way - my favourite stallions are:

• Sir Oldenburg
• Ferro

.... well this list could get really long so I will leave it at that.

[Coppers mom]

I'm a little worried breeding her to a Trak though. You guys don't think it'll make her a bit more quirky than she already is?

[wehrlegirl]

I'm a little worried breeding her to a Trak though. You guys don't think it'll make her a bit more quirky than she already is?

I think thats a myth.. you would think a foal from an anglo-arab would be walking on air, right? Nope.. she is just about bomb proof naturally, very very smart and people oriented though which I also think is just as much a Trak trait as an arab one. Talk to David Beattie or some of the other trak. breeders-- I heard this that a lot of temperament issues in the past decade or so came from one very famous jumping sire who put hundreds of foals on the ground that carried that difficult temperament. The one breeder I mentioned doesnt have any on his farm because of that.

[carolprudm]

Thanks guys! I don't need a WB, I was actually flipping through the Conn. thread that's also going.

I know I don't want an Irish Draught stallion for her though. If I were going to go Irish, he'd have to have a high percentage of TB.

In that case check out these guys
http://www.irishdraught.com/horses/roster.php?sunid=23

In particular Manu Forti's Sea Hawk

Irish horses, both draughts and Connemaras are noted for their short cannon bones

[Coppers mom]

I used to work for an Irish Draught breeder, I know.

[Coppers mom]

I think thats a myth.. you would think a foal from an anglo-arab would be walking on air, right? Nope.. she is just about bomb proof naturally, very very smart and people oriented though which I also think is just as much a Trak trait as an arab one. Talk to David Beattie or some of the other trak. breeders-- I heard this that a lot of temperament issues in the past decade or so came from one very famous jumping sire who put hundreds of foals on the ground that carried that difficult temperament. The one breeder I mentioned doesnt have any on his farm because of that.

I've worked with a couple Trakehners, mostly dressage bred, so I don't think it's a huge myth. Of course, I don't think it's a huge problem either, I just worry about it crossed with this mare, since she already has some of those tendencies. She herself is very sweet, but her family members can be quite opinionated and touchy, and I wouldn't want to bring that out, you know?

[NOMIOMI1]

Ditto.

Ive worked with a few hot on hot bred horses and HAD them walk on clouds occasionally lol.

If you know the lines real well and feel comfortable that they won't make a baby with a tail that wont relax whenever working LOL, then youre good!

Personally the Ferro's have always been level headed with me, and the Goodtimes horse I put above seemed to throw spitting image foals that you could climb up on out of the box without any problems out of racing mares that I hardly could hot walk. I don't remember them (the foals) ever spooking, or blowing up, but they were sharp and extremely work minded

[acottongim]

There are "hotter" TKs that are out there, but by and large the ones that I've seen that people complain about are certain lines and/or ones that have been crossed onto blooded mares (t'bred or arab). The TKs that have been mentioned so far on this thread are NOT known for any of the "heat" or "spiceness" (sp?) that you would need to worry about. And frankly, even the "hot" or "crazy" TKs have not been so much "hot" or "crazy" in my exp but VERY VERY smart and will NOT tolerate any nonsense from their rider/handler.

With the TK you will get the athleticism as well as the blood that you are asking for. There is a reason that more and more breeders are infusing some good TK blood into their programs.

[Coppers mom]

There are "hotter" TKs that are out there, but by and large the ones that I've seen that people complain about are certain lines and/or ones that have been crossed onto blooded mares (t'bred or arab). The TKs that have been mentioned so far on this thread are NOT known for any of the "heat" or "spiceness" (sp?) that you would need to worry about. And frankly, even the "hot" or "crazy" TKs have not been so much "hot" or "crazy" in my exp but VERY VERY smart and will NOT tolerate any nonsense from their rider/handler.

With the TK you will get the athleticism as well as the blood that you are asking for. There is a reason that more and more breeders are infusing some good TK blood into their programs.

Would you be so kind as to make me a list of the ones I should avoid?

My mare's not so much like it (I think mostly because she never raced/I've had her so long), but her siblings have been quite a handful on a few occasions, because they were too smart and/or opinionated for their own good. I don't mind a bit of that, but I don't want to risk bringing more of it out than she may already be predisposed to passing on.

[okggo]

Coppers Mom - I'm not sure where on the East you are, but you are more than welcome to come visit if you want to see offspring of Contango, O'Leary's Irish Diamond (no longer available but has sons that are), and Cielo B; in April we'll have a UB40 baby as well.

Reading your post, I really think Cielo. While his dressage aptitude wasn't high at the testing, he puts on killer movement and BOLD BOLD BOLD babies, and PRETTY!Contango might be another option. Sometimes it helps to see offspring of stallions you like, may sway you one way or the other.

Edited to add - there are other farms just down the street from me with stallions, you could make a day of it Legaczy is 5 miles from me, and there are a couple of big Hano barns, as well as Tully Cross.

[okggo]

http://newblessingfarm.com/Stallion.php

http://www.celebration-farm.com/stallions/rubaiyat.html

http://www.woodslanefarm.com/stallions.html

http://www.tullycrossfarm.com/Stallions.html

http://somedaysoonfarm.com/pages%20new/stallions.html

There are also offspring of Windstar (ISH); Formula One (ISH); anyway, lots cramped into a semi close area.

[horsechick]

Innkeeper throws great brains, and very well rounded athletically