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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
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    1,380

    Default Sire for heavy, long WB mare to produce an a-circuit hunter

    While this has probably been hashed and re-hashed, please give me some sire suggestions to produce a careful, elegant and good-moving hunter from a long, oldfashioned, wellbred Dutch mare that needs blood , an improved neck and smoother gaits. I need my mind joggled and most threads request the opposite- a sire for a hotter part TB mare.
    Last edited by Sakura Hill Farm; Dec. 21, 2010 at 01:15 PM.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
    Posts
    4,638

    Default

    I am going to throw my new 17.1hh Polish WB stallion - Winner - into the mix. He is 54% Thoroughbred in blood - the rest is a combination of Hanoverian, Trakehner and Anglo Arabian.

    http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueCol...rm/Winner.html

    Two of his jumper foals - Prezent and Jaspis - were the results of crossing TB and Anglo Arabian mares with Winner - the rest came from very old style, heavier WB and WB cross mares and the results are elegant, careful, typier hunters and jumpers

    He also moves very flat through the knee - very much hunter type in his movement and he has an exceptionally nice front end and topline as well and his hunter foals have also always gotten a good piece of the hack or won them in excellent company



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2005
    Location
    Northfield MN
    Posts
    1,094

    Default

    You might ask showjumper66 about Vallado.

    I was looking for refining blood in a compact frame when I came across him.

    I used him on two heavy bodied, longer mares and got very huntery offspring. The three year old will be starting training in the spring and I am keeping the yearling filly. Both are more refined and better movers than their dams with excellent temperaments and correct conformation. The older one is showing natural hunter form in the chute.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2010
    Posts
    152

    Default

    Chaleon



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2010
    Posts
    1,694

    Default

    Pablo and Redwine are US stallions that have given very short-coupling and good hunter movement to two of my youngsters. My Palomar and Raspberry Wine are both very refined with quite short backs and excellent hunter movement. They are in my FB pages under my name. Also, the KWPN stallion Good Times is elegant and refined and very short coupled. His get that I've seen this year also appear to have inherited those traits.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2010
    Posts
    1,694

    Default

    Just the Best.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2004
    Posts
    487

    Default

    I really like Jupiter for bigger mares that need some refining. Would also consider Shine, JTB, Chaleon, Cabardino...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2005
    Posts
    4,094

    Default

    Hm, I have one of these and I'm a bit on the fence as well. Mine is shorter & stocky though, and some of the refining guys mentioned are not reliably producing height. Don't want to risk loosing the step for the bigger jumps Curious to see everyone's fresh suggestions.



  9. #9

    Default

    Escudo I without a doubt. They all seem to be compact, typey and athletic. Very smart too, from my experience.
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    630

    Default

    Escudo I or Escudo II, as both have been successful with shortening longer mares. They will also add refinement and elegance with good jump. I also like the Pablo suggestion for the same reasons.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
    Location
    Castle Rock, CO
    Posts
    2,829

    Default

    A Fine Romance
    Crown Affair
    Con Caletto - seems to shorten and produce modern offspring.
    Westporte

    I personally would not use Cabardino to shorten a back.

    Redwine, Escudo's, Pablo, Vallado are all good suggestions too..



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2004
    Posts
    487

    Default

    I assumed the OP's mare was tall...getting height and refinement is a whole other can of worms.

    I personally would not go to Westporte or Redwine to refine a heavy mare. I would go the other way with both.

    Definitely agree Escudo I and AFR would be great choices!
    Last edited by arizonard; Dec. 21, 2010 at 02:38 PM.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2008
    Location
    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,420

    Default

    rehash is right.

    I second Arizonard if the mare needs to be refined - not Redwine or Westporte -

    I might look at Sir Wanabi -

    second AFR!! - can't miss with full TB -

    I have seen a number of short stocky Pablos -

    If the mare doesn't move that well I don't honestly think you can count on ANY of the stallions mentioned - heavy or not - to give you "huntery movement". The best results I see are with mares with huntery movement with good jumping stallions on top - but there is no data to back up that observation - just anecdote !
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2010
    Posts
    66

    Default

    I personally would not go to Westporte or Redwine to refine a heavy mare.
    Yeah, I scratched my head over those suggestions too, especially Redwine.

    AFR, hands down.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
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    Castle Rock, CO
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanaL View Post
    Yeah, I scratched my head over those suggestions too, especially Redwine.

    AFR, hands down.
    What I have seen of Redwine and Westporte have been very modern foals..even out of full WB mares.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
    347

    Default

    The Westportes I have seen are big and long, even out of TB mares. My own Westporte is 16.3 at 2 and looking to be HUGE - he is out of an old style WBX mare, and in retrospect, I wouldn't do that cross again - LOL! Westporte throws size, bone and length. My guy is also a wonderful mover and has an amazing brain - he is a lovely boy, just big.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
    Location
    Castle Rock, CO
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by savvy9 View Post
    The Westportes I have seen are big and long, even out of TB mares. My own Westporte is 16.3 at 2 and looking to be HUGE - he is out of an old style WBX mare, and in retrospect, I wouldn't do that cross again - LOL! Westporte throws size, bone and length. My guy is also a wonderful mover and has an amazing brain - he is a lovely boy, just big.
    Wow ok then.. I stand corrected...



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
    Location
    Castle Rock, CO
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    Default

    On a different note - what about Mighty Magic? Lots of Tb up close out of a very good Holsteiner dam line..



  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura Hill Farm View Post
    While this has probably been hashed and re-hashed, please give me some sire suggestions to produce a careful, elegant and good-moving hunter from a long, oldfashioned, wellbred Dutch mare that needs blood , an improved neck and smoother gaits. I need my mind joggled and most threads request the opposite- a sire for a hotter part TB mare.
    I would go TB- AFR come to mind quickly.
    I wonder if Scimitar has thrown any hunters?



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2000
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,723

    Default Final Pool

    I was pondering a similar idea lately. And the current stallion selection made me look to the past... check out Final Pool xx. I'm not sure if he is still alive, but there is still frozen semen available. I have a 21 year old Final Pool daughter in my pasture ... I would not give her up!



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