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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone ever seen Clinton Anderson excuse a clinic-horse for lameness?

    On RFD the show of late to be repeated ad nauseum, is him working on ground manners/longeing for respect with a shiny slick sorrel QH type of mare with three white socks and a blaze (for those flipping channels).

    The mare is sticky in the front end and wring tailed from time to time. In watching him work her, she NEVER canters correctly in either direction. All within the confines of a (maybe) 20' long lead, she'll roll back 'ok' but then strike off correctly up front but always wrong behind. And she hops/skips around til he reverses her again and again she'll nail it upfront and miss is behind. She's stiff bodied and illfaced about it to. she just looks sore to me.

    Now I haven't parsed every word he's saying but in watching him over cereal and coffee, I'm not hearing word one about that mixy canter as a possible problem. He could have commented on it, dropped her to a trot, and executed the same exercises w/o the added torque of the canter.

    So, has anyone else seen it? Noticed it? Been a part of his whole shebang to hear if he ever does start with a volunteered horse, then realize it was lame= and stop?



  2. #2
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    Sorry, no help here. I quit watching Clinton Anderson because I'm afraid I'll throw my boot at the television.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."



  3. #3
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    LOL I am safe in the living room mostly. Boots are on the front porch



  4. #4
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    katarine, you make one fatal assumption.

    You actually assume he has the ability to recognize lameness.



  5. #5
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    I watched one episode of his show and decided he was a waste of oxygen.

    Never seen him do anything that warranted televising, let alone the quasi-parelliite following he's mustered.

    I suspect if he were from, say, Alabama and not Australia, he'd be a nobody.



  6. #6
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    Hey, don't be doggin' Alabama lol.

    It's something to do in the AM over coffee, I promise



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    Hey, don't be doggin' Alabama lol.

    It's something to do in the AM over coffee, I promise
    Who's dogging AL!?

    I could have just as easily picked ID or WA or anywhere else, but AL and AU start with the same letter so...(can you tell I have a preschooler? )



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp View Post
    Sorry, no help here. I quit watching Clinton Anderson because I'm afraid I'll throw my boot at the television.
    I never dared to watch for fear of the same
    Worry is the biggest enemy of the present... it’s like using your imagination to create things you don’t want.
    Click for the ideal stocking stuffer for anyone equine!



  9. #9
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    Well, I think there's a confounding set of variables confronting Anderson.

    1) The work being done on a 20' rope. Can any of you see a lameness that way, save the small circle on hard ground to check out suspensory soreness? And then it's a pretty slow trot with an eagle-eyed student *not* caring about how the horse is behaving.

    2) The difficulty-- mental and physical-- of what it sounds like he's asking the mare to do. I don't know many horses who would get the correct lead being asked to do roll backs on a circle with less than a 20' radius. That's some tough physical work. A horse's hind end would get tired fast. His mind might get tired even faster.

    3) The QH herself. Now totally imagining things in a bigoted way, but these horses aren't known for being supple. Yes, they are bred (and expected) to roll back hard and often. I honestly don't know how many western guys care about cross-cantering per se. I'll add that any time I have used rollbacks as a training tool-- it has been under saddle, we hard started with a more generous circle and the horse did strike off with all legs on the correct new lead.

    4) The dude is an idiot, perhaps.

    But how would you tell the difference between any of these?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  10. #10
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    Default No, but...

    Saw Richard Shrake at Equine Affaire state that an unruly horse was "colicking" and excuse it from his demo....



  11. #11
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    Not to defend Clinton, but Mindy is an absolutely amazing mare. I have gotten the chance to work with her before and she is so sweet and smart.

    About the cross cantering - have you ever watched a cutting horse go? They often cross canter while tracking a cow after roll backs.

    Again, not defending, just saying.
    Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.



  12. #12
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    Richard is a WHOLE different kettle o' fish LOL what a weirdo!

    She never fixed the leads behind, they were wrong from the start, even when she was fresh.



  13. #13
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    I've seen Clinton work several horses that are very lame. I would guess that him and his crew can't see it. Some of the lamesness are very, very bad.



  14. #14
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    I have seen on RFD-TV John Lyons work in a round pen a fat gray yearling colt that was lame, maybe half foundering.
    He was so off that he did lay down several times, when JL was on one of his long winded tirades.

    Those are canned shows.
    You think they would be a little more careful of what they need to edit, before turning it loose on their "educational" videos.



  15. #15
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    I've used a lead line to check for lameness, on sand. Not too difficult to see if the horse is really lame or if you know what you're watching.

    But yeah, I think all those guys are pretty worthless. Some of them might have started out decent, but they all turned into a worthless bunch.



  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=mvp;5293366]2) The difficulty-- mental and physical-- of what it sounds like he's asking the mare to do. I don't know many horses who would get the correct lead being asked to do roll backs on a circle with less than a 20' radius. That's some tough physical work. A horse's hind end would get tired fast. His mind might get tired even faster.

    3) The QH herself. Now totally imagining things in a bigoted way, but these horses aren't known for being supple. Yes, they are bred (and expected) to roll back hard and often. I honestly don't know how many western guys care about cross-cantering per se. I'll add that any time I have used rollbacks as a training tool-- it has been under saddle, we hard started with a more generous circle and the horse did strike off with all legs on the correct new lead.



    Going to say that rollbacks on a circle with less than a 20' radius isn't a rollback in western work. In working cowhorse, cutting, reining a rollback is basically a pivot over the hind feet....the front picks up and ideally should go 180 degrees (or very very close to it) with the hind feet not moving forward at all...the inside hind should stay put with the outside hind stepping around and becoming the lead foot on the departure. If we used a 20' circle to do rollbacks in cutting and working/reined cowhorse events we'd lose the cow every time.

    Uh...if I can suggest you ride a reined cowhorse or a good cutting horse before you suggest that they aren't supple...they'll make moves that your dressage horse would probably never manage.

    Not defending using a lame horse but sometimes what you see in western events is very different from what you see in things like dressage. An example would be your "pivot" at the canter....your horses move their hind feet in each stride and it is very slow...in reining it requires that the inside hind remain stationary...doesn't lift from the ground (or at least isn't supposed to) and is quick, very quick. Your horse does it in a tiny circle while the reiner does it in one spot.



  17. #17
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    I didn't see the show but if the horse in question was Mindy, I read that he very recently (like this month) retired her because she is somewhat aged.
    I have watched many a clinician around the US and on TV work a slightly lame horse. Sometimes the horse begins sound but ends up lame, due to foot soreness from hard round pen work, or body soreness from the same thing, or they just plain hurt themselves. And remember these clinicians have to line up horses for their "on the road" demos long ahead of time. They get what they get when the arrive at the venue. It is not always a fit or sound horse.
    The big TV type clinician arrives in some state at some huge venue and the horse he is presented with to use in the demo is a bit lame. The clinician is faced with a huge arena full of paying spectators. What is he to do? Cancel the whole shebang? of course not.
    The horse will go home and eventually recover from the event.
    I have been around enough trainers ,and started enough colts and worked enough problem horses to know that when a trainer is working with a real problem horse, sometimes shyt happens and the horse gets a bit lame in the round pen. It is nice if the training session could just stop immediately, but if in the middle of something critical to that horse's mental process it needs to go on. So the trainer finishes that particular task, then rests the horse and heals the injury later. Most performance horse trainers have had that happen sometime, you just didn't see it on TV.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  18. #18
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    It was not Mindy. This was a 'problem' horse.

    The mare was not crippled up lame, just NQR to my eyes. I just don't know why he didn't either A) accomplish the same task at a trot, which he easily could have, even under the guise of 'if a horse is way out of shape, I'll show you how to do this stuff at just a walk and a trot' or B) elect to say you know one thing I noticed about this mare, is the mixed up leads. Might not be anything, and our short work today won't harm her, but if she routinely canters mixed up like that, you might have a vet look into it.

    He'd still get to use her, just not the way he was planning to. So what? Tweak it a little.
    Maybe it's a worry about liability , the Pandora's Box of saying so?



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    It was not Mindy. This was a 'problem' horse.

    The mare was not crippled up lame, just NQR to my eyes. I just don't know why he didn't either A) accomplish the same task at a trot, which he easily could have, even under the guise of 'if a horse is way out of shape, I'll show you how to do this stuff at just a walk and a trot' or B) elect to say you know one thing I noticed about this mare, is the mixed up leads. Might not be anything, and our short work today won't harm her, but if she routinely canters mixed up like that, you might have a vet look into it.

    He'd still get to use her, just not the way he was planning to. So what? Tweak it a little.
    Maybe it's a worry about liability , the Pandora's Box of saying so?


    And he might well have said that to the owner but just not on camera....just a thought.



  20. #20
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    Dec. 13, 2010
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    Default Here's a wee CA vent:

    I wrote to CA after discussing two of CA's dvd segments on No Worries Club dvd (one wherein he directed assistant to kick a horse in the ribs at least 32 times, & the other wherein he okayed students leaving their horses in trailers for 3-5 days when travelling) with 2 vets, both of whom said no to the repeated kicking & no to the leaving horses in trailer that long - can you say circulation?

    I wrote in a friendly way, motivated by helpfulness to horses, & the answer, whether directed by CA or "thunk up" by staff, was that I don't fit in their program! Ker-plunk!

    Aside from those two issues bothering me, I'm bothered by more, like how his horses are so behind the vertical, when he rides them.

    I didn't renew my No Worries Club membership, & gave away the ones I'd gotten; what else could I do, since authority dictates that I don't fit in with the program?



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