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  1. #1
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    Nov. 29, 2010
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    Default Young horse long lining - behavior issue

    I have a 2 year old warmblood, and have been long lining her a couple of days a week since early fall off of a halter. She has been ok with it and accepted it without too much fuss up until recently when we moved to a new barn. She has begun BLOWING UP on the long lines to the point where she rips them out of my hands (actually tore through my gloves today and gave me rope burn ) and gallops away from me. It's become habitual now, and i'm not sure what to do. I don't want to put her in a bit just yet, as I don't want her to rip her mouth out when she does this, but i think she doesn't respect the leather halter. I have thought about running one of the lines over her poll to give me a little leverage with her. Any thoughts?



  2. #2
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    She's young, in a new place and when you are behind her, you are pushing her out in front - which is of no comfort to her at all. It sounds like she's just not confident with it anymore, which is reasonable, because she's in a new place.

    If I were you, I would just leave it be for a while, let her settle it and then begin again very slowly, like you were just starting. It will go much quicker then, and you will have saved yourself an unnecessary fight.

    There's really no hurry is there? If you still want to work with her a little, work her in hand where you are up by her head and can reassure her.

    JMO - but she does still have a baby brain.

    SCFarm
    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

    www.southern-cross-farm.com



  3. #3
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    I've only started one horse in long lines, so take this for what it is worth...

    If I felt the messages were getting "cloudy" through the long lines, I went back to halter work. I read a lot about Western Showmanship training and had done a lot with Parelli, so I'd go back to getting the horse responding to cues reliably again. At first I'd have to escalate the cues quickly, but then we'd go back to very subtle body cues. Yield hindquarter, yield shouler, go forward, back up...and most importantly "WHOA." "WHOA" was sometimes followed by a string of unflattering curse words, but we kept it up. They DO get it if you are consistent. Once my guy was reliable again (sometimes even the same session) I would reinforce the lesson in the long lines and end on a good note.
    Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior



  4. #4
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    I realize that she is still a baby, and i'm not asking much of her, walking, steering, halting and a little trotting. She is much happier when having something to do a couple of days a week, as she is highly intelligent, but this behavior isn't acceptable.



  5. #5
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    I agree, give it a break and do something completely different, like in-hand work, walking on the lunge for a few moments, etc. Since she's blown up to the point of having gotten away from you, she likely thinks thats going to happen each time now, and things will likely escalate... so get her listening and behaving doing something completely different and then return to long lining at a later date.
    Worry is the biggest enemy of the present... it’s like using your imagination to create things you don’t want.
    An adorable photography book, makes a perfect gift.



  6. #6
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    Yeah doing something else will allow her to forget the bad habit too. Good idea guys



  7. #7
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    You may also get good suggestions by asking on the Driving forum.



  8. #8
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    stryder i hadn't even thought of that, thank you great idea!



  9. #9
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    You might also consider starting her back in a round pen or other smaller enclosure, so she doesn't have anywhere to go if she decides to bolt off.



  10. #10
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    Back up a step and get the horse lungeing correctly and listening to voice commands. Whoa should mean to stop square, don't let the horse turn in towards you. Don't let to horse buck or play on the lunge. Add a bit and side reins when all is going well. Then go back to long lining, but with a bit. You have already taught the horse a bad habit, it is not going to forget it by avoiding the issue. The horse has figured out you are ineffective and it can get away from you, you need a trainer really.



  11. #11
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    Renae, she does respond to voice commands, halts on a dime when asked. She knows voice commands for speeding up, slowing down, walking, whoaing, and she backs up on command. This is more an issue of her feeling insecure in the arena than my ineffectiveness, and fwiw she is heading to pro training in January.



  12. #12
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    I would probably just return to long-lining in a round pen. That way it is a much more controlled environment and much less temptation to pull away from you.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch217 View Post
    Renae, she does respond to voice commands, halts on a dime when asked. She knows voice commands for speeding up, slowing down, walking, whoaing, and she backs up on command. This is more an issue of her feeling insecure in the arena than my ineffectiveness, and fwiw she is heading to pro training in January.
    If this is the case, why not just call the trainer and ask what they want done? If they are going to have to deal with the horse in 20 days from now, they might like to have some input.

    Just curious as to what your Pro trainer is going to do with such a youngster?

    SCFarm
    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

    www.southern-cross-farm.com



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDM View Post
    Just curious as to what your Pro trainer is going to do with such a youngster?

    SCFarm
    Ditto. As a 2-yo, unless she's going to be 3 in just a couple months, and even doubtful then, I wouldn't waste the money to send her out. The long lining should be an easy fix in a couple sessions in a round pen. It's not worth it to send her out until she's old enough to really be started under saddle. Not just sat on and walked around for 5 or 10 minutes, but actually started.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch217 View Post
    I realize that she is still a baby, and i'm not asking much of her, walking, steering, halting and a little trotting. She is much happier when having something to do a couple of days a week, as she is highly intelligent, but this behavior isn't acceptable.
    You asked so I am going to say it.

    You think you are not asking much of her but obviously you are or this would not be happening. Asking a horse to go in front of you when long lining requires the horse to be confident and she is showing you that she is not. Rather than assuming a new environment would equal a loss of confidence you thought she should just be calm and carry on, which tells me you dont understand what is important about long lining. What is important is that - just like when you ride them - the horse is in front of you and "on their own".

    You are going to have to go back to inhand work to fix this. Leading her at her shoulder with her neck and head in front of you is the beginning, I use a chain and dressage whip because I like ti be subtle but you can use whatever you are conpmfortable with. Purposefully confronting things that make her uncomfortable in this position will be the first step, at first I ask that they stand (whoa) and then approach (go). When she can do this comfortably you can revisit long lining.

    Teaching a skill (driving in lines) is not the same as learning what to do when losing confidence or being afraid. That is why with two year olds we teach a skill in a secure environment (stall, arena, round pen) and then as they mature and gain confidence we use the skill to expand their training and exposure. Often at two we teach something, do it a few times and then leave it alone. Constant, challenging work is not thepoint and can lead to them learning bad things, as you now know and now have to fix. Good luck, be safe and slow down... You have plenty of time.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  16. #16
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    Jul. 26, 2003
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    When I've started my last 2 in lines I did a lot "sacking out" with the lines every time. Then I used the lines on a circle (similar to the lunging they were used to) with a lunge ine attached as a third tether training wheel. So if anything went wrong I could drop the lines and hold the lunge line as they halted. With the lines to the inside they stayed clear of klegs.

    But, I only did long lining work after solid lunge skills, including halt at the first command.

    After my horse was calm and unconcerned on a circle did I start a slow shift to go behind him. I always worked anything new in a round pen just in case.

    She is young so slow going is your friend. Have fun and enjoy her!
    Becky
    Becky & Red
    In Loving Memory of Gabriel, 1998-2005 and Raalph, 1977-2013



  17. #17
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    go back to your liberty work and remind her you are there for her. this sounds like a confidence issue.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  18. #18
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    Pro trainer is a natural horsemanship trainer (and a fantastic one at that) and she is being sent to work on groundwork before she is started under saddle in the spring. (planning to get her going in March when she turns 3). He doesn't do long lining, but I enjoy it and it's good exercise for both me and my horse. Lots of good ideas thus far. I think I have pinpointed her lack of confidence to one particular item that is situated next to the arena that I had previously dismissed. Thanks all for the helpful ideas!



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch217 View Post
    Pro trainer is a natural horsemanship trainer (and a fantastic one at that) and she is being sent to work on groundwork before she is started under saddle in the spring. (planning to get her going in March when she turns 3). He doesn't do long lining, but I enjoy it and it's good exercise for both me and my horse. Lots of good ideas thus far. I think I have pinpointed her lack of confidence to one particular item that is situated next to the arena that I had previously dismissed. Thanks all for the helpful ideas!
    whatever is in the areana effect you more than the horse so igonre it then she will to

    if you want control of the horse when lunging make the circle smaller
    as in the triangle as your the apex your whip hand is one side the longe line the other and the horse is the bottom line

    do not understand do not ever ever eveR lunge from the bit the same side your lunging from as this means a the horse has the a- an advantage and b- you can hurt the horse by pulling the bit though its mouth
    always lunge either under the chin or over the poll and attached the bit to the other side

    EQUINE TRAINER has told you about leading and is great advise

    lunging is an art and to be honest i wouldnt attempt to lunge a young horse as they mussles havent developed properly so running round in tight circles they are not ready for yet as she s 2 and not three even at three i wouldnt do it

    you need to go large large and large
    alway start youngsters going large so they can learn to use them seles and balance themselves

    so what to do
    find a dressage trianer or driving trianer which can be found in any group or club assocation or soceity attached to the FEI for you look usaFEi or dressage driving for a accredited trianer as they are all listed and bound to be one in your area

    2nd you need and are far better long reining her hence the driving or dressage trianer

    this will help ehr understand basic commands will keep her focused and also will help with her balance it also helps build up the top line

    and long rein her for yonks meaning as her work start off 20mins as in ten mins each side and build it up to half an hour so hwne shes broken or gettign broken in the work isnt going to be to much for her as shes ababy and to start of with 20min is enough as they are like kids they hhave short concentrating spans
    so snippets of info when she done good phrase her well via hugs and cudles sctraches not treats as in food items and then put her back out or in her stable and let her brian sleep on whats shes learnt next time out she will remember
    Last edited by goeslikestink; Dec. 12, 2010 at 05:12 AM.



  20. #20
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    ok dutch17 something which bothers me

    i ahve been breaking and schooling horses for over 40 years now as your having problems lunging then to me your a novice as cant correct whats wrong no offence just an observation

    just a re cap on what you said

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch217 View Post
    Pro trainer is a natural horsemanship trainer (and a fantastic one at that) and she is being sent to work on groundwork before she is started under saddle in the spring. (planning to get her going in March when she turns 3). He doesn't do long lining, but I enjoy it and it's good exercise for both me and my horse. Lots of good ideas thus far. I think I have pinpointed her lack of confidence to one particular item that is situated next to the arena that I had previously dismissed. Thanks all for the helpful ideas!
    now am going to break this down and answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch217 View Post
    Pro trainer is a natural horsemanship trainer (and a fantastic one at that)
    and she is being sent to work on groundwork before she is started under saddle in the spring. (planning to get her going in March when she turns 3).
    He doesn't do long lining,

    read the above-- this bothers me a lot

    any decent trianer will start a horse long lining it wwhich is two lunge ropes
    or at age whereby the horse is 3.5 might lunge it

    both are which as taking into account that your trying to lunge her ie one lunge rope

    and havent a clue yet he doesnt either that bothers me that you have sent your horse away to someone thats not as good as what you think they are

    but I enjoy it and it's good exercise for both me and my horse. Lots of good ideas thus far. I think I have pinpointed her lack of confidence to one particular item that is situated next to the arena that I had previously dismissed. Thanks all for the helpful ideas!
    the above bothers me --
    any dencent trianer wouldnt let ahorse get all spooky over an object or part of a place

    think---- the horse is uneducated so dont know nothing
    so not scared as it doesnt know nothing

    fact - horses have 2 fear factors 1st is flee 2nd is to advade you

    simple

    fact- if your not confident then your horse isnt going to be
    lack of confidence from the handler tranmits to the hrose this creates a fear factor - think of you on the lunge line and what happened
    1st is to fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 2nd is to advade you

    your horse isnt conifdent as your trianers not and niether are you

    confusion, hesitation, and creating doubts or giving mixed signals t ahorse creates a fear factor - fact

    horses, - a horse wil only react to how how you act- fact
    a horse will only learn by the human hand - fact

    good or bad whatever your teaching this little mare will stay with her for life long

    i would surgest you remove the horse from the current trianer and go and find someone liek a dressage trianer or driving trianer that has a little move savvy and knows waht theya re doing before this young horse gets ruined and you get hurt

    go here for helpful tips also has articals on how to lunge etc

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=178116

    how to long rein click on the sections llisted
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...d5RFLA&cad=rja

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...3slW2A&cad=rja
    Last edited by goeslikestink; Dec. 12, 2010 at 05:25 AM.



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