What would be the most you would spend on a nice TB that actually looks and moves like a WB and has a decent show record (wins at the locals, good ribbons at the rateds). 5 years old, completely sound, clean x-rays. Would easily be 25-30K if he was a warmblood. But of course everyone thinks they can do down to the track and get one just like him for free. Is living at a nice training barn in the Northeast and will be in full work, ready to go, ready to show.
I would spend the exact same price for him that I would for a WB. You ride the horse, not the breed. If it is a good mover, good jumper, easy ride, flows like a hunter, and is sound, you are paying for that, not the breed.
For a more specific answer to your question, I know someone who bought a similar horse last month (16.2 hh, flashy, unraced TB), who had good ribbons in all classes in the Baby Greens at competitive rated shows, has the scope/step for the 3'6", auto lead changes, snaffle mouth, sound, and she paid $28k for him. He was at a professional's barn.
Restated/trained? Breed wouldn't make me pay less. I'd pay the same for a 16.2 big moving solid bay TB that jumps 3'0 as I'd pay for a 16.2 big moving solid bay WB or QH or other that jumps 3'0. I don't care what it is, I just care what it does.
The one you describes sounds like a $15,000-20,000ish horse depending on how easy he is to ride, whether he's ammy ready, what the ribbons are in (I assume 2'6 baby green type classes) and whether he's got potential to go higher or is more of an A/A horse. As a young green horse that an ammy can ride, destined for the A/A ring-- $15,000-20,000. A little more if he's a superb mover or jumper or is very flashy. A little less if he's a less-than-average mover or jumper, is a weird size, or has some vice.
Now, a horse that is CURRENTLY on the track or literally just let down? I probably wouldn't pay more than $5,000 for a horse with little training... but that's less about the horse being a TB and more about me not being willing to spend more than that price on any green, just-backed horse.
Last edited by vxf111; Nov. 24, 2010 at 02:49 PM.
What I would pay would depend on how much I liked the horse as an individual, not on what sort of papers he might have.
A big, pretty, good moving, great jumping five year old that I got along well with, found comfortable and balanced and that I felt confident could move up to the 3'6" with more time and mileage would be worth around $20k to me, regardless of breed. But then, I buy for myself (not for resale) and I am very picky about what I like.
********** We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
Thanks so much for the responses! I guess there is not as much TB prejudice out there as I thought. I personally love the TBs, and have said next horse for me will be a TB. This is a horse we are taking in to sell for a trainer friend who is going to step back from the business a bit due to personal reasons. I want to get top dollar for her, but of course need to pay my trainer commissions, plus whatever we put into the horse. This horse is a solid citizen with a nice 3' track record locally, plus 2'6 rated record.
As described above? 3' local and nationally unrated 2'6" offered at rateds???
15k-20 MAYBE, depends on your area and IF he is ammy friendly. The issue is not breed but no record in any nationally rated division is going to hold it down a bit. You would also need to be marketing towards buyers in the national rated arenas, not your locals, to get into that range.
Get some rated 3' results in Ammy divisions and it will be easier to market, maybe bump that price to the higher end of that 15-20 range. Maybe a bit more if he is pretty or gets a piece of the hacks.
I really doubt you'd get a penny more right now if it was a WB with just the local 3' and unrated 2'6" mileage.
When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.
12th floor of the Acme building in a city that knows how to keep it's secrets.
Originally Posted by kimball1
Thanks so much for the responses! I guess there is not as much TB prejudice out there as I thought.
Yes there is. The consensus COTH BB opinion is not the same as the consensus AA horse show opinion. I had a TB for sale and showed it to a BNT. He said, 'Sorry, I can't sell TBs.' I reminded him that he had been HOTY on a TB and not that long ago. He said, 'I love them. I just can't sell them.'
If you sell him out of the show ring with a good record, you can get as much as anyone else. You just might have to wait longer. If 'moves like a WB' = suspension, be aware that is a negative in front of a good many judges.
You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.
"If 'moves like a WB' = suspension, be aware that is a negative in front of a good many judges."
I'm curious what you mean exactly. Is it that the "suspension" means knee action good for dressage, but the opposite of the daisy cutter type of thing people want to see in the hunters?
Kind of sort of.
Suspension is actually, and simplistically, height off the ground within a gait. You know, they actually have all 4 feet off the ground for a heartbeat at the trot as they lift off the ground. They almost hover above it and, unless extended, do not cover much ground, sort of like a merry go round horse if you will pardon the analogy. More up and down, less forward.
Knee action is part of of it but plenty of horses have high knee action that takes away alot of the forward and no suspension.
That "daisy cutter" action with the lower knee is preferred as they, theoretically, cover more ground more smoothly-and, like the above, plenty have the low knees but move short and still do not have a smooth, ground covering gait.
It is obvious which one you would want to ride to actually go someplace for any length of time, like on a Hunt.
It's all part of the total picture of the way the horse moves, something good judges can pick out and bad ones get hung up on while ignoring the fact it moves like crap.
When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.
Heck, all else being equal, I would probably pay MORE for a high quality TB than a high quality WB. That said, I am certainly the exception rather than the rule.
There is definitely a bias toward WBs at the A and AA level these days. I remember when it was all TBs, and I remember when the shift toward WBs started to happen. It think the WB craze is at its peak now. I predict a shift back to TBs or WBs with more TB in them. But I digress.
The answer from any logical thinking person SHOULD be that they would pay the same for a TB and WB of the exact same quality, provided they like the horse in question. It shouldn't matter one way or the other what breed the horse is. However, there are an awful lot of folks out there who are just dying to own a warmblood. In fact, they'd rather own some backyard bred "American Warmblood" than a TB because they want to be able to say they own a warmblood. It's just silly, in my opinion. And I've seen a lot of people with some craptastic warmbloods as a result of this sort of thinking.
I've ridden a ton of warmbloods and a ton of TBs in my life, and I can name a lot of warmbloods that I really, really liked (usually the very well bred ones). But I can name WAY more TBs that I really, really like(d). Now, a lot of the owners of the TBs that I really, really liked didn't like them so much. Which is one of the reasons I rode them so often. TBs are not for everyone. I think you are either a TB person, or you are not.
A TB person would be willing to spend quite a bit for a capable, fancy TB. The same as most other people would pay for a capable, fancy WB. Seriously. It might take you longer to find that person, but they do exist. Unless I was in a hurry to unload this horse, I would NOT lower its price to reflect that it is a TB. I'd price it without regard to its breed. Just my two cents.
Last time I bought a horse, I was looking to buy a youngster to bring along. While doing my search, I found quite a few people doing "backyard breeding", essentially getting a TB mare off the track and breeding her to a warmblood stallion. Some of these people literally had the mare in the backyard.
That said, I grew up riding TB's and that's what I'm 1/2 leasing now. For the most part I really like their intelligence and way of thinking and their energy. Next time I buy, I'm going to go for whatever feels like the right horse regardless of breed. However, I might have a slight bias towards things that might be easy to re-sell if I decided to specialize or something a couple years down the road. That might mean going for a WB or WB/TB cross since that's more what's in these days.