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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2005
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    710

    Default Gabapentin For The Pregnant Mare

    My 13year old mare came down with a bad case of laminitis. She is seven and a half months in foal. She cannot be treated aggressively with Bute or Banamine because she is super sensitive to NSAIDS and went into renal failure a couple of years ago due to Banamine. Everything we have tried so far has not worked.
    Gabapentin was mentioned as a possibility.
    Has anybody used it on a pregnant mare ? Did it work ? Side effects ? Did it affect the unborn foal ?
    I hate watching her being in pain, but have a hard time considering euthanasia when there is a live foal inside her.
    Any information would really be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance.



  2. #2
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    Mar. 6, 2005
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    S. Carolina
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
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    Howell, Michigan
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    Default

    We had a pony that had bouts of laminitis. Glue on plastic shoes + deeper shavings in the stall did wonders.

    Dan



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
    Location
    VT
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    Default

    There is a mare in my barn that foundered badly about 9 months ago. So far the only thing to give her any relief are wooden "clogs" that are screwed onto her feet. The clogs are rounded on the bottom so there is no point of resistance when the horse takes a step. There is a plastic wedge pad in between the wood and her foot with the whole sole area cut out so she has absolutely no sole pressure. She is sound enough to be rideable in these shoes. Twice we have tried to put her back in regular shoes (set up for a foundered horse) and both times she was lame again within 12 hours (lying down, unable to walk). Within 24 hours of going back in the clogs, she was sound again....
    I have no doubt that this horse would have been euthanized by now if my farrier hadn't tried the wooden shoes.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    310

    Default

    My only experience with Gabapentin is in dogs. It definitly helps with pain wind up, but I'm not sure how safe it would be for a pregnant mare. There are many things that you can do to ease her pain that are non drug related. Icing her feet is a good place to start, then you can try foam blocks, or soft ride boots. You will need to find a vet and farrier that can work together to manage her feet.



  6. #6

    Default

    please consider acupuncture....we had a lesson pony founder so badly she couldn't walk in her stall. Got an acupuncture treatment, and the next day she walked down the aisle and went out in the sand paddock. I've been a believer in acupuncture since that day
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
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    NW Louisiana
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    Default

    In humans it *can* cause neural tube birth defects, as well as some other neurological effects, depending on the dose. If it is necessary for a pregnant woman, it is recommended to take 10x the daily dose of folic acid, because neurontin will bind to folic acid. That is thought to help prevent any birth defects.

    The issues in humans and rats are dose-dependent. With the rats, normal doses didn't show any birth defects; only when the rat was receiving more than the recommended maximum dose per weight did issues start to appear. However, that doesn't mean it's totally safe. I also couldn't find any studies about women who were already pregnant and then started on neurontin. All the studies and examples were from women who had been on it before conception.

    So if you do try it, just make sure she is getting more than adequate folic acid. But if you can try maybe the clogs, that would obviously be a better solution if it helps.



  8. #8
    Elfe is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Nov. 26, 2005
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    710

    Default

    Thanks !
    This is what we have tried:
    Equioxx, no improvement.
    Banamine, 1000 lbs. paste, twice a day for three days with daily tubing of water and blood checks for creatinine levels. Some improvement
    Doxycycline, mainly for its potential anti-inflammatory properties, although she also had to be on antibiotics, because in the process of fixing this, a farrier accidentally drilled a hole in her foot.
    Foam pads, no improvement.
    Soft Ride boots, with and without frog support, no improvement, plus she hates them, tries to bite them off, creating sores.
    Mashes to get water into her, at first OK, now she does not want them.
    Salt to make her drink, no go.
    The latest: Pergolide, too soon to know if it works.
    Ticofuzzy: do you have a picture of the clogs ?
    I'll run the other suggestions by my vet.
    Thanks again to all, including pm's.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2009
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    Connecticut
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by horsechick View Post
    please consider acupuncture....we had a lesson pony founder so badly she couldn't walk in her stall. Got an acupuncture treatment, and the next day she walked down the aisle and went out in the sand paddock. I've been a believer in acupuncture since that day
    You have to be very careful acupuncturing a pregnant mare. If you try it, make sure it is someone very experienced. It will work great after she foals.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2005
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    Default

    How about Ace? I'd explore that option. Arquel as well. Not familiar with their use in pregnant animals, just general laminitis cases. I did find a source that stated Arquel might delay parturition, but at this point I'm not sure that's a concern (or it's accuracy).

    Is she on Regumate? Maybe someone can weight in on using that, I'd certainly look into it's use,



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2010
    Posts
    113

    Default Gabapentin

    Regarding the response discussing neural tube defect........the mare is past the first trimester of pregnacy.Neural tube defects develope in the first 3 months of pregnancy with humans.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 19, 2010
    Posts
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    Default

    Can they do a lidocaine drip for her? she would be on it 24/7, but it "should" make her comfortable...I think I remember a mare in foal coming in for a colic surgery and having a lidocaine drip? (that was about 5 years ago though) worth asking. It would require constant monitoring, not sure if that is an option for you. Icing feet for 30 min every few hours can be helpful, usually indicated for pounding digital pulses and feet which are warmer than normal to touch.

    Had a mare this summer that had crazy abcesses in both front feet, she was acting like it was founder. The farrier put on a wooden shoe...sounds like it may be similar to what someone else was talking about. It was a plywood base with a thick 1" rubber rounded sole. He used casting material to put them on...so no nails or screws...it worked INSTANTLY

    here's a link:
    http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2009/08...-link-for.html

    http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/edss.../lameprod.html

    The steward clog is close to the bottom of the page for 2nd link.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 19, 2010
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    Default

    http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/07...ystem-for.html

    Here's another link with some good info. Basically, the mare that was abcessing, had very little sole and the ground was incredibly hard and dry last summer; there wasn't enough of a barrier between her coffin bone and the ground. I had brought her in bedded down deeply in shavings, and put her on 1 1/2" thick styrofoam blocks, and that actually made it worse becase the foam moulded to her sole and put continuous pressure on the coffin bone. I was amazed when the clog made her completely sound. The wood made for a level surface that did not place any pressure on the coffin bone and the rubber sole provided cushion and "some" traction.

    hope that helps some. Best of luck! I hope your mare feels relief soon! (((jingles)))



  14. #14
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    Nov. 13, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEasy View Post
    Regarding the response discussing neural tube defect........the mare is past the first trimester of pregnacy.Neural tube defects develope in the first 3 months of pregnancy with humans.
    There are other neurological defects that neurontin can cause as well.



  15. #15
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    Mar. 4, 2007
    Location
    NE Georgia
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    Default

    Putting deep sand in her stall and keeping it damp and cool should give pain relief without effecting the foal. We did this with one of our mares that foundered last year and it made a huge difference for her. The vet recommended it.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
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    VT
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    Default

    The clogs my farrier makes strongly resemble the steward clog that someone posted a link to, except they are made out of plywood and are custom made for each horse. I'm not sure how the steward clog would be made to fit a horse that did not have standard size feet, but I'm sure there's a way. The horse in my barn is a Morgan that showed saddle seat for many years and has a very long, narrow, contracted hoof - not your normal hoof shape (my farrier did not take over this horse until after she had foundered). She is wedged a bit and the wedge pad is applied between the clog and the hoof. The wedge pad also provides a way to create an area of no pressure on the horse's sole. It is cut out very similar to the cut out portion of the steward clog. The cut out portion is filled with something VERY soft and squishy that smells like pine tar - she can't tolerate even the softest impression material, so my farrier used something he doesn't normally use and she can tolerate that. My farrier also drilled some holes in the "wedge" part of the wedge pad so that when impression material is applied to the heel/frog area of the foot, it will sink into the holes and be secured in place (so it doesn't migrate forward and put any pressure on the sole). I'm not sure if my description makes sense and I don't have any pictures of it, but it works VERY well.



  17. #17
    Elfe is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Nov. 26, 2005
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    Default

    Thanks, that makes good sense. I am waiting on an opinion on the X-rays by an expert, before I can go ahead and nail shoes on. Because of the hole in her sole and the danger that the coffin bone could come through, we need to be able to inspect the bottom of her foot daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by ticofuzzy View Post
    The clogs my farrier makes strongly resemble the steward clog that someone posted a link to, except they are made out of plywood and are custom made for each horse. I'm not sure how the steward clog would be made to fit a horse that did not have standard size feet, but I'm sure there's a way. The horse in my barn is a Morgan that showed saddle seat for many years and has a very long, narrow, contracted hoof - not your normal hoof shape (my farrier did not take over this horse until after she had foundered). She is wedged a bit and the wedge pad is applied between the clog and the hoof. The wedge pad also provides a way to create an area of no pressure on the horse's sole. It is cut out very similar to the cut out portion of the steward clog. The cut out portion is filled with something VERY soft and squishy that smells like pine tar - she can't tolerate even the softest impression material, so my farrier used something he doesn't normally use and she can tolerate that. My farrier also drilled some holes in the "wedge" part of the wedge pad so that when impression material is applied to the heel/frog area of the foot, it will sink into the holes and be secured in place (so it doesn't migrate forward and put any pressure on the sole). I'm not sure if my description makes sense and I don't have any pictures of it, but it works VERY well.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    20,158

    Default

    You can ask your vet to consult with Rick Redden in Lexington. He's an equine vet and podiatrist. My farrier/podiatrist and vet were both trained by him. He's got lots of tricks up his sleeve.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    Have you looked into the herb Jiagulan? It can help with laminitis according to Horse Journal and Dr. Eleanor Kellon. You will find a lot of info on google.

    Ideally you want to help your pregnant mare heal. I would not want to risk founder while masking pain.

    Gapa Pentin kept my old dog comfortable in his last months. I was wondering if had been used on horses and specifically thought it might be suited to help horses with EPM damage.



  20. #20

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    I've learned a lot from my recent foundered mare experience and have sent several pms on this.

    So everyone knows, Ace cam cause vascular changes (which is why it's given to foundered horses since it opens up the blood flow). There IS a big risk when giving it to a pregnant mare due to the placenta essentially being one big mass of blood vessels. UGA had to give it to my mare as a way to calm her down. She was pacing and pacing during the acute stage and it bece a save her over the foal. I have been warned about early delivery due to the Ace she got.

    DMSO and an antibiotic: DMSO can cause either cataracs or cartiledge problems. There's also an antibitic that causes blindness or cartiledge. I'm getting these mixed up. Can't remember which is which now or the name of the antibiotic.

    I don't think gastroguard is even proven safe (nobody knows what the effects ae either that I can find) but my mare had to get this due to the amount of bute (2gms2x/day) she was on. So I'm hoping for the best on this one.

    So just because it works, pregnancy throws a real wrench into treatment if the goal is to have a healthy foal in the end. You HAVE to check every single drug or herb out with a vet or the manufacturer before you give it to a pregnant mare.



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