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  1. #1
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    Default spinoff of DADT -- private lives, gay marriage, etc.

    Timex posted the following under the "repeal don't Ask Don't Tell" thread and I thought it was perfect:

    The day I have so little else going on in my life that I feel the need to meddle in someone else's personal, private life? Just shoot me.
    the question becomes... why do people feel it IS ok to meddle/judge another's private life? I don't get it because I don't (or at least I don't feel I do). Things like living in a state that passed a gay marriage ban makes me twitch. The question that no one has ever ANSWERED is... how exactly does the gay marriage down the street REALLY affect someone's straight marriage. I have asked that often and I haven't heard a single, concrete answer from anyone in the anti-GM camp.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  2. #2
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    Sep. 5, 1999
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    Default

    My thoughts exactly.



  3. #3
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    Jun. 19, 2009
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    Default

    There is a good book - "Nudge" - and I have been dying to talk about what the authors suggest. Their thought is if we have seperation of church/ state, why not let the govt/legal system enforce the "partnership" contracts while the religous community handles the marriage part. Of course, it's much more elequent in the book. But get govt away from the spiritual/idealogical concept of marriage entirely. If a church doesn't want to recoginze certain relationships, fine. Let govt govern & focus on issues outside of the bedroom.

    Of course, there is still the issue of partnership health benefits...shall we start a healthcare train wreck?



  4. #4
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    Default

    MMavin... that has been my LONG held belief. Sorry, but as far as the government is concerned marriage really is (or at least should be) nothing more than a legal contract between consenting adults. Period. End of Story. They don't restrict who can enter into any other business contract, so what's so special about marriage -- FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S POV. I too get that religious institutions want to (for whatever reason) restrict who they recognize as married... and as private entities I think this is their right -- just as it is the church's right to say who can lead them (ie: priests can only be men). Private entity after all. But the governmetn shouldn't have ANY say -- whether this contract is between a man and a woman, 2 men, 2 women or quite frankly more than 2 people. As long as EVERYONE involved is ok with the terms of the contract and are of legal, consenting age and mental status. (which of course pokes a big hole in the slippery slope "but then people will want to marry their dogs" pseudo-argument)

    As for health benefits... if it's tied to the government contract, then I don't see how they can deny them (in the scenario above).
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  5. #5
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Alabama
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    Default

    I don't understand why everyone seems to announce what they do in the privacy of their own home, and why I'm supposed to care. For example, why do people announce who they sleep with? And it's not just public figures. A woman I worked with years ago comes into the office and says she's considering having an affair, and we all knew her husband--extremely tacky behavior in my opinion. I don't see how someone's relationship affects me in any way, as long as they aren't doing something on my front lawn. I think everything is so public these days because of the increased communication and networking available to all of us, and people really need to rethink how much info they put out there, since once it's on the internet it's there forever.

    I think it will be interesting with the first gay couple with kids moves into a military housing area, and everyone soon figures out that they have the longest surviving relationship in the entire subdivision.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  6. #6
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    Dec. 22, 2009
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    When I was younger and listened only to my parents I thought gay marriage was an awful idea. Then I started thinking on my own and deciding what I thought our country stood for. I'm still very conservative, but I'm convinced that in my lifetime (I'm 20) gay marriage will be legalized. I feel that my generation is more open to homosexuals and generations after us will continue in that fashion.

    To answer the question of why people think it is okay to meddle or judge other people is because we are trained to. You can follow some people's entire lives through the media and through talk shows and opinion shows everyone is encouraged to judge those people. I know that a lot of my judgments come from my parents. It's learned behavior.

    ETA: I'm not a terribly judgmental person, although I will admit to judging those closest to me.



  7. #7
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    Mar. 4, 2004
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    Louisville, KY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    the question becomes... why do people feel it IS ok to meddle/judge another's private life? I don't get it because I don't (or at least I don't feel I do). Things like living in a state that passed a gay marriage ban makes me twitch. The question that no one has ever ANSWERED is... how exactly does the gay marriage down the street REALLY affect someone's straight marriage. I have asked that often and I haven't heard a single, concrete answer from anyone in the anti-GM camp.
    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    MMavin... that has been my LONG held belief. Sorry, but as far as the government is concerned marriage really is (or at least should be) nothing more than a legal contract between consenting adults. Period. End of Story. They don't restrict who can enter into any other business contract, so what's so special about marriage -- FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S POV. I too get that religious institutions want to (for whatever reason) restrict who they recognize as married... and as private entities I think this is their right -- just as it is the church's right to say who can lead them (ie: priests can only be men). Private entity after all. But the governmetn shouldn't have ANY say -- whether this contract is between a man and a woman, 2 men, 2 women or quite frankly more than 2 people. As long as EVERYONE involved is ok with the terms of the contract and are of legal, consenting age and mental status. (which of course pokes a big hole in the slippery slope "but then people will want to marry their dogs" pseudo-argument)

    As for health benefits... if it's tied to the government contract, then I don't see how they can deny them (in the scenario above).
    Agree 100%.

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  8. #8
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    Feb. 22, 2007
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    Default

    I have yet to hear a convincing non-religious argument about why gay marriage should be illegal, and since we theoretically have a separation of church and state and all that, the religious angle just doesn't hold water.

    My favorite is the "But two male or two female roommates can just get married for the tax benefits, then date other people and divorce when they want to!" Like, not only who would do that, but what's stopping male and female roommates from doing that now? This isn't the 1950s, coed living situations are pretty common. That's like the least sensible argument I've heard. Well, other than the slippery slope "marrying the dog" one, but that's so silly it hardly even warrants a response.



  9. #9
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    I've only heard the "it affects (hetero) marriage" nonsense from people with a religious agenda, and their arguments centered on their religious beliefs, which I do not share.

    I too fail to see how someone's partner (for sex, work, shopping, whatever) is really my business. I hope I can always find something more entertaining to do with my time than worry about what other people are doing in their bedrooms.
    Full-time bargain hunter.



  10. #10
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    I've heard "because the purpose of marriage should be to produce children" and obviously two people of the same sex won't be having any children naturally.

    Makes no sense to me...are you asked when applying for a marriage license if you intend to have children? Many heterosexuals do not want children. And then why would we allow anyone over a certain age to marry? Because after 45/50/55 there is a pretty good chance they will not be having any offspring naturally either. In Indiana you can legally marry your first cousin if both people are over age 65...so you can marry your cousin, but not your gay partner.

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  11. #11
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsGlitterNGold View Post
    but I'm convinced that in my lifetime (I'm 20) gay marriage will be legalized.
    It IS legalized, in the intelligent states. Just joking. Sorta.

    Although I'm not gay myself, I know plenty of gay people, and here's the shocker.....they're just like everyone else! They're people too! Personally, I feel like being homophobic is just like any other sort of prejudice: racism, agism, sexism. It's all nonsense and it's all picking on someone for something that they cannot do a d@mn thing about. And it can all just as easily be turned back on you.

    Personally, I'm fricken' proud to live in the first state to make gay marriage legal. Go Mass! We may have high taxes, but at least we treat people like people!



  12. #12
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    Aug. 7, 2006
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    Default

    I think all of you have great perspectives. I'm in complete agreement. The fact that gay marriage is even an ISSUE astounds me on a daily basis... why do people care so freakin' much?

    The fact that every argument is religion-based grinds my gears (to borrow a phrase!) even more. Separation of church and state, eh? Right....



  13. #13
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    Feb. 4, 2006
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    It really astounds me as well. I know it will be legalized in my lifetime but jeez is it taking awhile. Religious beliefs should have no place in law-making, IMO, and that's the only real thing stopping both gay marriage and the repeal of DADT.

    It really hurts me deep inside that two committed people can't get the paperwork and benefits they so richly deserve. It's so terribly ignorant and wrong on every level.

    My religion loves the gays and sanctions their marriage. So there



  14. #14
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    May. 11, 2004
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    My dh is military has been since before we got married. When DADT was first introdced/ put into place. He went bonkers.. He used the 'reasoning'/ excuse that he had been brought up with.. not normal, not this not that .. Dont want a 'homo' to come on to me when out in the middle of nowhere on a ship..etc. We battled over this... It took at least a year to educate him that gays are not likely to 'come on to a ship/unit mate'. And that it is as 'normal' as being hetro. As noone wakes up one day and pronounces "Im going to be straight/ gay. Noone has a choice as to what sexuality they are going to be. Many gay's are more committed to their partner than many hetro's...
    He finally realized that his fears were unfounded.
    Fast foward to not so long ago like 2mths ago.. I was sent a 'survey' on DADT.. It was sent to me because I hold a military dependent ID card. It was not a short survey probably 15 pages. The questions asked IMO were really directed to those who for what ever reason believes that someone who is gay will be a threat to their marrage/relationship.. Needless to say I filled it out with the end result basically saying Why should anyone care if gay's serve in the military? I sure do not care as long as they do not pass secrets( yeah that was one of the questions) to another country... As long as they do their jobs and do it proficeantly what they do in their own homes is none of our business.
    I imagine something simlar was done when the military 'thought' about allowing blacks to serve with whites...
    I know it was not done when they allowed women on ships that ere other than support aka out of harms way if a battle were to occure..
    It is time to drag our military into hte "20th cent." ( yes I ment to say that) and like other countries allow gays to serve with out any fear that if their 'secret' was discovered they would loose their job.
    Friend of bar .ka



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMare01 View Post
    Agree 100%.

    Caitlin
    I also agree 100%.

    What I can not for the life of me understand is the argument that "this Nation was founded on Christian values, therefore it is ok to legislate Christian morality."

    OK, first of all, no.
    No this Nation was not founded on Christian values, hate to break it to you.

    Secondly, can somebody please explain how advocating that belief is not in so doing advocating a theocracy? How the logical step somehow isn't, "OUR Bible says x is wrong therefore it should apply to EVERYONE?"

    Freedom of religion in this great country is sadly limited to the freedom to be protestant. If you are anything else, the hypocrisy and double standards will blow you away.

    Many people are willing to play lip service to freedom of religion, but not actually tolerate somebody who embraces different values living next door.



  16. #16
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    May. 12, 2001
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    DC
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    Quote Originally Posted by bumknees View Post
    Fast foward to not so long ago like 2mths ago.. I was sent a 'survey' on DADT.. It was sent to me because I hold a military dependent ID card. It was not a short survey probably 15 pages. The questions asked IMO were really directed to those who for what ever reason believes that someone who is gay will be a threat to their marrage/relationship.. Needless to say I filled it out with the end result basically saying Why should anyone care if gay's serve in the military? I sure do not care as long as they do not pass secrets( yeah that was one of the questions) to another country... As long as they do their jobs and do it proficeantly what they do in their own homes is none of our business.
    Was that this survey?
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39902057/ns/us_news-life

    Snippet-
    An internal Pentagon study has found that most U.S. troops and their families don't care whether gays are allowed to serve openly and think the policy of "don't ask, don't tell" could be done away with, according to officials familiar with its findings.
    Snobbington Hunt clique - Whoopee Wagon Fieldmaster
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  17. #17
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    My favorite is the "But two male or two female roommates can just get married for the tax benefits, then date other people and divorce when they want to!"
    Yeah, like marriages lasting 55 hours (Britney Spears) do oh so much for the "sanctity" of traditional marraige. sure.

    I have VERY close friends of ours that got "married" this summer. Ohio doesn't recognize it but to anyone who SEES them, they're most certainly married.

    I also have some very close friends who are in polyamorous relationships. Obviously they aren't married but who's to say they shouldn't be able to be? well, other than those who are religiously objectionable of course, but just like the gay marriage debate, that really shouldn't be in the middle of the argument anyway!
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  18. #18
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    Sep. 9, 2007
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    Charleston, SC
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    My brother is gay. He came out in the 1990's and he said the pressure to conform was off him. He felt so much pressure to conform to what society wanted that it put him in a dark place.

    My SIL left her hubby for another woman. I told her flat out i could care less that she left her hubby for another woman, but the fact that she allowed her 10 year old son to catch them in bed was a different story. IF she was caught in bed with another man I would have an issue with that also. Of course she is still convinced that I have an issue with the fact she prefers women. No..really..I don't CARE.

    I work for the military and most of the guys I work with could care less if they come out of the closet.
    OTTB - Hurricane Denton - Kane AKA Bubble boy
    Boxer - Tugger's - outlasted my marriage



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by linquest View Post
    Was that this survey?
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39902057/ns/us_news-life

    Snippet-
    An internal Pentagon study has found that most U.S. troops and their families don't care whether gays are allowed to serve openly and think the policy of "don't ask, don't tell" could be done away with, according to officials familiar with its findings.
    Yeah that is the one.
    In the letter I first recieved said people were chosen randomly. Oh yeah not required to participate if dont want to. BUt then if they did not get teh survey back in X time several 'letters' sent to ask beg almost soundling like an order to fill out the thing and send it back. I had filled mine out when I got it just was delayed in putting it in the mail..
    Friend of bar .ka



  20. #20
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    I AM religious, and I also support gay marriage. What kills me, are those that use religion as an excuse NOT to support gay marriage. It insults me and my religion.

    The religion (Christian/Methodist) that I grew up with is very much about not judging others, loving others as yourself, and there are countless verses in the bible about "do not judge lest you be judged...", "take the plank out of your own eye" "all sins are equal in the eyes of God"... etc. etc. My God is a loving, accepting God who made all of us according to HIS plan for us, tall or short, black or white, gay or straight, whatever we are. It is NOT for us to judge others just because their lifestyles/cultures are different from our own.

    And even IF your particular religion espouses that being gay is a sin, are you free of sin yourself? I don't think so- so shut it. I have found that that statement alone pretty much shuts them up.
    Jazz- 4.9.01 OTTB, loved since 12.6.09
    Skip- 3.3.91 APHA, i miss you buddy



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