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  1. #1
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    Default Things I'm noticing at the Hunter Derbies:

    Fleur De Lis Farm hosted their first Derby and GP this past weekend.

    The Derby field was magnificent.
    It was a large grass field. Two devil's dikes and one very large plataue/knoll that the riders cantered up, along the top, over a fence, down the hill to another fence.


    My question:

    There were 30 horses entered. Most of them rode the "classic round" very classic. Very slow and careful.
    The very first horse on course came out and hand galloped the entire course out of stride--like one would ride on the hunt course.

    This rider won--easily. Held the lead from the get-go and then also won the handy round. This horse was thinner, slightly wasp wasted and was the only real galloper.

    So I guess my wonder is, if the riders that go out and gallop are scoring better, why does everyone not go out and canter a bit more forward?
    Last edited by purplnurpl; Jan. 19, 2011 at 01:12 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    There were 30 horses entered. Most of them rode the "classic round" very classic. Very slow and careful.
    The very first horse on course came out and hand galloped the entire course out of stride--like one would ride on the hunt course.

    This rider won--easily. Held the lead from the get-go and then also won the handy round. This horse was thinner, slightly wasp wasted and was the only real galloper.

    So I guess my wonder is, if the riders that go out and gallop are scoring better, why does everyone not go out and canter a bit more forward?
    1. You didn't say where in the order of go the bolder rider went. Riders who went before the bold ride didn't know that a bolder ride would be rewarded. Until the judges actually scored the round, the riders couldn't really know if the judges would prefer a more forward ride. Judge preference varies. Even after the bold rider recieved a good score- the remaining riders may have walked the course and made a plan to ride more conservatively, and didn't feel they were prepared to change the plan on the fly.

    2. We don't know what the horses were like that were ridden by the less bold riders. Perhaps those horses get amped when ridden more forward or just don't jump as well. Each rider has to try to get the very best ride out of his/her horse and although the judges might have preferred a bold ride-- that might not have been strategic for other rider/horse combinations. I don't know how big this derby was or how many entrants were pros on "derby horses." There might have been a fair number of juniors/ammies on division horses who just felt they would get a better ride going for the more conservative ride that they're used to going for in their regular divisions? Horses not used to those outdoor jumps may have also been backed off fairly significantly.

    Hard to say, without knowing the facts. Obviously once you see a judge's preference, you want to try to match that-- but to what extent you can reasonably do that is hard to say.

    I don't know why riders coming out and saying they had a blast in their class would make you glad you only dabble in hunters. I'm generally happy to see anyone have a good ride and feel proud in any discipline. Seeing a dressage person have a nice test doesn't make me think snugly to myself "wimp, you don't even jump!" but that's just me. Hunters is no less difficult than eventing. Different-- absolutely-- but every type of riding has its own unique challenge. Being at the top of the game in any discipline if extremely difficult and requires a lot of hard work. Kudos to those riders for doing the derby and enjoying themselves while doing it. Many of them probably spent a lot of time preparing and were genuinely proud of their performance, regardless of score.
    ~Veronica
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    1. You didn't say where in the order of go the bolder rider went. Riders who went before the bold ride didn't know that a bolder ride would be rewarded. Until the judges actually scored the round, the riders couldn't really know if the judges would prefer a more forward ride. Judge preference varies. Even after the bold rider recieved a good score- the remaining riders may have walked the course and made a plan to ride more conservatively, and didn't feel they were prepared to change the plan on the fly.
    I believe she said the bold rider was the very first rider on course.

    The very first horse on course came out and hand galloped the entire course out of stride--like one would ride on the hunt course.

    This rider won--easily. Held the lead from the get-go and then also won the handy round.
    I think the comment about riders coming out and exclaiming how much fun they had was due to it sounding like a novel thing. More like they were saying it was fun to actually get to ride over a gallopy course with more variety of fences, closer to field hunting or XC even, which is one of the reasons why the OP loves Eventing. Either that or she was comparing it to riders coming off of XC with that smile that takes days to go away. =)
    Rhode Islands are red;
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacetrackReject View Post
    I believe she said the bold rider was the very first rider on course.
    Duh. I missed that! I thought said said that rider was leading the entire way, i.e. had the highest score the entire time. I didn't catch that the bold rider rode first. It's possible that if the bold rider was first, the other class entrants were warming up/getting ready and might not have been watching that person go. Or that the other riders just didn't feel like that bold ride would be the best ride for their horses under the circumstances.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  5. #5
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    Simple it depends on the judges. period. Some like the faster gallop, some like a slower pace, but they all like the horse to be forward no matter the speed of the pace.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacetrackReject View Post
    I think the comment about riders coming out and exclaiming how much fun they had was due to it sounding like a novel thing. More like they were saying it was fun to actually get to ride over a gallopy course with more variety of fences, closer to field hunting or XC even, which is one of the reasons why the OP loves Eventing.
    Why would it being a novel thing for other riders make the OP glad she hasn't given up eventing? Or make the OP laugh at those riders??
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  7. #7
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    While I can't speak for purp, I don't think it was meant in a negative way. Maybe it just reminded her of why she liked eventing (XC). The excitement and fun of it. Seeing others having so much fun at something they love to do, reminded her of her eventing years and why she could never walk away from that completely.

    I think it was just a simple comment, nothing nefarious about it.
    Rhode Islands are red;
    North Hollands are blue.
    Sorry my thoroughbreds
    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacetrackReject View Post
    While I can't speak for purp, I don't think it was meant in a negative way. Maybe it just reminded her of why she liked eventing (XC). The excitement and fun of it. Seeing others having so much fun at something they love to do, reminded her of her eventing years and why she could never walk away from that completely.

    I think it was just a simple comment, nothing nefarious about it.
    Maybe I am reading it the wrong way. Entirely possible. I found the entire post very condescending... like "hey you dumb hunter people, if you see that galloping is rewarded-- why don't you just do that already? Hee hee, silly hunter people, thinking that jumping derby jumps is a challenge. We eventers eat those jumps for breakfast."

    I might be having a sensitive day and/or be reading the post wrong. Fully acknowledge that. I'm also reading this post in light of the OP's prior posts about hunters which had a real cast of "I am an eventer and I think what you do is so inferior" to them. But maybe that tone wasn't intended here. It's how I read it.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  9. #9
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    Default

    vxf111--I got the exact same impression. Maybe I'm having a sensitive day too.



  10. #10
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    Not touching that classic debate....

    but will point out this was not the first Fleur de Lis show/prix.
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  11. #11
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    I REALLY wanted to go to this, and my friend was eventing at Training level across the street but alas the ole boyfriend decided we needed some "quality time" together. Really? ON the same day as all those fun events? RELATIONSHIPS! *sigh*

    I think a lot of hunter trainers want that slow lope around the courses so riders maybe aren't sure how to kick it up a notch for the handy round? I know I've been trained on the classic round, lopey and slow, but not on the handy round. It's a new class for the most part, and eventually there probably will emerge not only a new "class" of horse, but a new class of instructor.

    And I dabble in XC. Because it's fun!!! I like being skerred.....



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipChange View Post
    vxf111--I got the exact same impression. Maybe I'm having a sensitive day too.
    Same here.

    BTW, I have often come out of the show ring and said "OMG, that was so much fun". Even when the class was your basic hunter course. After all, any well riden course when everything goes well is a heck of a lot of fun
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  13. #13
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    I also got the same impression.

    But hey, one of the reasons I'm psyched about Hunter Derbies is that the eventers going Prelim will finally be able to cross over and show us all how to ride.



  14. #14
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    I watched the derby at Fleur de Lis as well. It started at 8:30 in the morning and the course was set on a dewy grass field with a lot of hills and turns. Quite a few horses slipped, especially in the first round. I probably wouldn't have wanted to gallop in the classic round either.



  15. #15
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    You guys are too sensitive.
    The derbies are new. The terrain and natural jumps are new.
    It was fun seeing the riders having a great time cantering up and down the hills and through the dikes and having a blast. I'm guessing it's not something that they do often.

    I didn't realize that the farm had already held other shows. Mis-spoke then on that one.

    And I would not have asked the question if I thought that the riders were a bunch of stupid passengers that don't know how to gallop. And I will also point out that I did not say this:

    "hey you dumb hunter people, if you see that galloping is rewarded-- why don't you just do that already? Hee hee, silly hunter people, thinking that jumping derby jumps is a challenge. We eventers eat those jumps for breakfast."


    for some reason many people on this board think that eventers think this way and it is down right sad. Especially to come on to a thread and put words in my mouth. That is what YOU think we think. That is a self confidence issue and not even a spec of a thought in MY mind but I speak for myself only.
    Last edited by purplnurpl; Jan. 19, 2011 at 01:13 PM.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandylt View Post
    I watched the derby at Fleur de Lis as well. It started at 8:30 in the morning and the course was set on a dewy grass field with a lot of hills and turns. Quite a few horses slipped, especially in the first round. I probably wouldn't have wanted to gallop in the classic round either.
    Oh that's right. Agreed. Time for studs! I did notice many of the horses had them.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I also got the same impression.

    But hey, one of the reasons I'm psyched about Hunter Derbies is that the eventers going Prelim will finally be able to cross over and show us all how to ride.
    Again, not something anyone from the eventing board would think (I would hope). I don't know where some of you get these ideas of bully attitudes towards your sport and I personally don't find them amusing -- I hope you are talking about someone other than myself.

    So far at the derbies I've seen, the judges are rewarding the bigger galloping rounds.
    Last edited by purplnurpl; Nov. 3, 2010 at 11:02 AM.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post

    I might be having a sensitive day and/or be reading the post wrong. Fully acknowledge that. I'm also reading this post in light of the OP's prior posts about hunters which had a real cast of "I am an eventer and I think what you do is so inferior" to them. But maybe that tone wasn't intended here. It's how I read it.
    This is interesting to me as well. I have been asking questions all season because I'm clueless. This is a mentality that you have integrated into my posts for your own benefits all along.

    And again I ask, why would I want to join the company if I thought it to be inferior? That is a backwards way of thinking in its own.
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  19. #19
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    I've never gotten a "hey you dumb hunter people" vibe from purplnurpl's posts before, and I didn't read this on that way either.

    If someone can't come on and ask legitimate questions to educate themselves because we're all so sensitive, what's the point?

    I've come off cross country and had "that was so much fun" moments and I've come out of the hunter/eq ring doing the same thing. (never out of the jumper ring, though. ). Doing something a little different can be exhilirating. It probably just reminded the OP how much fun she has galloping on XC and not wantin to give that up, because let's face it...there's not so much galloping in the hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    I don't know where some of you get these ideas of bully attitudes towards your sport and I personally don't find them amusing -- I hope you are talking about someone other than myself.
    Hate to say it, but there is a pretty prevalent attitude that hunter riders are passengers, can't ride, etc. We're not making it up, maybe just being a little too sensitive to it.
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  20. #20
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    Thanks purp, yes, that is what I was meaning to say. I really need to stop posting at work..lol.

    I, too, always thought Purp asked questions because she wanted to learn more and wanted to be more like a good Hunter rider in pursuing her new desire to try derbies with her horse. I realize that sometimes it seems like people are being not quite sincere when you see posts saying something like "I've ridden Intermediate, so I can just start in Working Hunters right?", but we also get the same thing from H/J people in the Eventing forum with people saying things like "I show 1.2 jumpers, so I can sign up for Prelim my first time out, right?". I don't think it's meant to belittle what each other does, I think it may just be someone not actually thinking things through before they ask the question.
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