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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    3,883

    Default Considering a 1/2 Share - Am I Nuts

    Am I crazy to consider this? I love both the sire and the broodmare sire, but I'm a little concerned about the filly's left front. Should I call to see her train, or run away before I lose my shirt?

    http://www.countrylifefarm.com/NewPa...art=MoonPhilly

    And yes, this is probably the WRONG place to ask, but I don't have enough experience with youngsters to spot if she's correct enough to race sound for a while or a breakdown waiting to happen, so would like an honest opinion of the filly's conformation for a coming 2 year old.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2001
    Location
    NW Louisiana
    Posts
    695

    Default

    I wouldn't give anyone any money without seeing her in person and working would be even better. Is that all the money they are going to expect from you or would that change and for what reason. Have they done this before (probably so) and how sucessful was it. Who makes the decisions? Probably not a group decision. She looks sweet but it's hard for me to see flaws in pictures. My husband was one of 12 guys and we had the best time going to the races and watching what ever horse they had at the time. We bought the last filly they raced for our foundation broodmare after she got hurt.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    22,269

    Default

    I think it is a very low risk way to get started in the TB business. You would only own 5% of the horse outlay for expenses should be relatively low but then so will your percentage of earnings if any. I am not sure how they handle things like what to do with her after she retires and if you still own 5% then too. You may want to ask about that part since they could decide to breed her and then you will owe part of the stud fee and foal expenses too. She does have residual value as a broodmare if they want to sell her as such to dissolve the partnership at some point.



  4. #4
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    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    Default

    I'm probably considering it more for the fun aspect than as an investment, but I also don't want to deal with the heartbreak of seeing her break down on the track. I know that's never a sure thing, but I also don't want to get involved if anyone sees any glaring or obvious conformation issues that might make a breakdown more likely. I guess the only way to reassure myself is to go see her in person and watch her go under saddle.

    Mr. Trevelyan will say I've surely lost my mind.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    3,060

    Default

    You should go see her train, if that will sway you one way or the other. Ask how far along she is (how far has she breezed on the farm, etc), and who they will be sending her to at the track.

    I didnt notice anything glaring based on the pics, she's a big filly, her pasturns are a little long, but nothing too bad.

    Just remember that the add does say that the prices will go up once she is in training at the track, and purses dont always cover the expenses (hardly ever in the beginning).

    Wondering why you would think posting this in the racing section would be the wrong thing to do?

    Oh, and to answer the question whether or not these folks have ever done this before... yes, Josh and Mike Ponns are reputable people and have been around a very long time.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    Wondering why you would think posting this in the racing section would be the wrong thing to do?

    LOL,Only because I figured the racing forum would be the ultimate place for enabling!

    Oh, and to answer the question whether or not these folks have ever done this before... yes, Josh and Mike Ponns are reputable people and have been around a very long time.
    I am acquainted with Country Life. Trav was an Allen's Prospect son, so I talked with them a few times when I first got him to get background information, etc. They were really helpful and I've followed their stallions for years, even won some bets on their babies, which is how I knew about the partnership offering. Thanks for the reminder that costs will probably start to go up when she first gets to the track unless she shows lots of talent very early on.

    I agree about the long pasterns, although I don't find them to be all that unusual for a big girl bred for speed, but the LF looks a little wonky in a few of the pics. I'll guess I'll have to think about it for a few days, and if Mr. T doesn't blow a gasket, I'll give a them a call, ask some intelligent questions, and go see her in person if I can afford the answers.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2009
    Location
    northern va
    Posts
    42

    Default Dont do it

    The costs are too high, the upfront money is too much, and the risk is too high. Bad deal for you, run away.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    22,269

    Default

    She has probably been backed but I doubt/hope she isn't galloping yet so watching her train is most likely not an option.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
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    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sm473 View Post
    The costs are too high, the upfront money is too much, and the risk is too high. Bad deal for you, run away.
    Racing is all about risk but I don't know where else someone could get a 1/10th share in a Malibu Moon filly for $5000. That $50,000 is lower than maybe 80 % of the sales prices for the yearlings by Malibu Moon and the cost of monthly training is reasonable as racing goes.

    http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...&saleyear=2010

    To own horses outright is where the real risk is. This could be a fun dabble and the Pons certainly have a good reputation.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2004
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    1,389

    Default

    She looks immature and like a late bloomer. I don't think she looks "fast" or like a 2 yr old if you are worried about a quick return of your investment. I have a feeling she is back or at least flat through her knees, which doesn't affect speed but could be a soundness issue. But she is scopey and athletic looking and a 1/2 share investment is no massive risk! Also, the Pons are wonderful and honest people.



  11. #11
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    She has probably been backed but I doubt/hope she isn't galloping yet so watching her train is most likely not an option.
    Gah, totally missed that she is a yearling....



  12. #12
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    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    Default

    she foaled in 2009, so doesn't that make her a 2 year old on Jan 1, 2011? I will give the Pons a call tomorrow and take it from there. The upfront cost is pretty low, as well as the monthly contribution.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    Default

    Pa has decent purses, so she's going to the right place to race. If you want to get your feet wet without jumping in the pool all at once, I would say go with a partnership! Just remember that she will run mostly in Pa, so she wont be local. If you like her, I say go for it (enabling here).



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Clinton, BC
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    Trevelyan96, NOBODY WANTS to have to deal with horses getting injured or breaking down in training or in competition. Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that you will not have to deal with this, even with the best of trainers and the best of care. It is part of racing, along with the highs of watching your young horse train well, compete, and possibly win a race every now and again. One does not want to dwell on the negatives, but do not be surprised when something like this happens, because they do happen. And when they happen, you will go from the highest of highs, to the worst day of your life all in an instant.

    As a rule, I do not like partnerships as I always like to have full control of decisions made. But they are a decent way to have some fun, and enter the racing industry without a big financial outlay. These people would be good ones to be involved with I think. The horse will be whatever she will be. Good luck!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2007
    Location
    south of loxahatchee, fla
    Posts
    291

    Default maybe---

    It can be a long way from a yearling to the races. I have put together a couple of syndicates, but like to get them started so there can be some racing action/purses for the participants.
    However, that being said, it might be fun for you to have something to look forward to. I would never, however, invest without looking, and preferably with a trainer who is experienced at developing and racing young horses.
    I love that she is Del certified and Pa eligible as well. Those races are a bit easier than open races---and better purses.
    Agree pasterns a little long...plus the point of her hocks sit a bit high on the joint.
    Her first and second dam did not have longevity to their careers, nor did they produce any black type...so if you have to breed her, her babies might not have a lot of commercial value (depending of course what the other sibling do in the meantime). Racehorses are a krapshoot, SO, you could "get lucky" (as we say). At her young age, race training before racing could be a year.
    I like the look out of her eye--Good luck whatever you choose to do!!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2010
    Posts
    10

    Default

    No, you aren't nuts. Horse racing needs more owners so if you choose to get involved, joining a partnership is a great way.

    Just make sure you do your homework on this whole thing and make sure you completely understand how things are set up financially.

    First question I would ask myself: is this filly worth $50k? Since it's 10 shares, with CL keeping one share, at $5k per then CL has valued her at $50k. Would you buy her for $50k?

    Next thing is to ask if it's worth giving 10% of all purse earnings away to CL each time she runs. Frankly, while that doesn't seem like a lot of money, it adds up pretty quickly if you get lucky and the horse starts winning. You'll give 10% to the jock, 10% to the trainer, and 10% to CL for each win - frankly, that really limits your opportunity to ever break even or to profit. IMHO, no partnership manager does enough to earn 10% of purses. Or, at least, there should be a cap on the maximum amount per race i.e., 10% up to $300 per race. In addition to the 10% CL will take, they'll also charge a flat fee of $150 per month for management. What does that "management fee" cover? Tax prep? Or is that extra? Office supplies? PP's on race day? Win photos? or, are they extra? Videos? Photos?

    Maybe some other questions to ask:
    1) Will each member of the partnership be required to be licensed? The answer should be yes because each 1/2 share is 5% of the horse, and most jurisdictions require licensing for owners having 3% or more ownership.
    2) If the horse races away from PA, will management cover their own expenses for travel, lodging, meals, etc - or will the partners have to pay for management's travel?
    3) Will partners be granted access to view all bills that come into the partnership?
    4) How frequently will updates of the financial information (earning/expenses) be given to the partners? Monthly? Quarterly?

    If you are comfortable with the answers you receive, I hope you join in the fun. But, if they balk at supplying any info you ask for, run away.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    Default

    Well, I did work up the nerve to discuss with Mr. T. Surprisingly enough, he was 'intrigued' at first, but he's also a cold hard realist. So he crunched the numbers for me and pointed out that although I can afford it, I'll have to keep working full time to pay my share, as he's not interested in investing in a race horse. I was hoping to cut back to a part time or local, lower paying job next year so that I have more time at home, and to ride, etc.

    I hate it when he uses logic against me.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



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