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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2003
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    western mass
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    315

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    So this is a rant and a little on the long side but it angered me: winkgrin: (you can get away with reading the end I just had to put my reasons for the eventual rant


    So I was all excited to get my first issue of COTH (Feb. 13 issue) I flipped through it and gave it to my mom when I saw a picture I wanted to cut out (I do this with all my magazines) and she said hey read this article...
    I read it and tell me if I’m wrong but isn’t the idea of the between rounds with anyone suppose to enlighten your horsy mind, not trash kids and their parents???
    So this Denny character (I really don’t care who he is in anyone’s world right now but he's on my list as of now)...and my little "counter points" are all mostly from today alone...

    " Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to."

    My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them and I come home to some guy telling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that

    "Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

    my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time)

    "That means that children don't get up in the morning and feed their ponies. They don't clean stalls. They don't scrub the slime out of the water tub. They don't turn out the pony, bring him in, change his blanket, pick out his feet, select his feed, or lug hay bales."

    my reaction- who does this guy think he is? (by now I was really aggravated with this Denny guy)...what children is he talking about?...every day I feed my horse, clean his stall and other stalls, scrub slime, bring the pony in and out, pick his feet out (that one o found kind of random), change his blanket (way too much, stupid weather changes), pick his feed and lug hay bales as well as throwing them into the hay loft (we don’t have a nifty thing that does it for us, we have arms and muscles for a reason!?!)...by now I was kind of grr mommy for asking me to read this...

    yet there’s more...

    "One way for suburban children to acquire some kind of hands-on exposure is to become a member of a local pony club, and organization with goals and philosophies geared toward helping children acquire real horsemanship skills."

    my reaction- I only recently joined pony club, I’m unrated (as most of you know from other posts) and I have been doing just about everything pony club offers (with the exception of rallies and stuff like that) with out having to own a horse, or be obligated to something that you might not always be able to go to (don’t get me wrong I love pony club its fun!)

    this guy is getting on my bad side...

    "Another reason has to do with an attitude shift that sees manual labor as somehow demeaning. Lots of kids don’t mow the lawn. Why should they? A lawn mowing service comes to do that. They don’t wash the car. That’s what car washes are for. And they don’t groom their horses. That’s what grooms are for, isn’t it?"

    my reaction- I mow the lawn. I think its fun (I do ask my parents i will mow the lawn willingly) I wash the car. i enjoy that too (i cant even drive a car , an besides car washes scare me )and this groom business...(no offence to those who are grooms) but children should groom their own horse, i mean i help my friends if they are running behind, and a professional usually has other horses to ride and things to do but children, come on

    all right i will stop but trust me i could go on, and on and on. this article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? ...i have calmed down a lot from when i read this the first time and i am sorry if i made anyone mad from my anger but ahh!

    sorry it ran longer than i thought

    -Caroline

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    ~*I am just your ordinary
    Average every day sane psycho
    Supergoddess -Liz Phair
    ~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
    ~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
    ~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

    [This message was edited by Batteries Included on Feb. 25, 2004 at 03:01 PM.]
    "Just say what you think and write what you feel and eventually someone somewhere will appreciate it. And that’s all you can ask for." -CRD



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2003
    Location
    western mass
    Posts
    315

    Default

    So this is a rant and a little on the long side but it angered me: winkgrin: (you can get away with reading the end I just had to put my reasons for the eventual rant


    So I was all excited to get my first issue of COTH (Feb. 13 issue) I flipped through it and gave it to my mom when I saw a picture I wanted to cut out (I do this with all my magazines) and she said hey read this article...
    I read it and tell me if I’m wrong but isn’t the idea of the between rounds with anyone suppose to enlighten your horsy mind, not trash kids and their parents???
    So this Denny character (I really don’t care who he is in anyone’s world right now but he's on my list as of now)...and my little "counter points" are all mostly from today alone...

    " Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to."

    My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them and I come home to some guy telling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that

    "Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

    my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time)

    "That means that children don't get up in the morning and feed their ponies. They don't clean stalls. They don't scrub the slime out of the water tub. They don't turn out the pony, bring him in, change his blanket, pick out his feet, select his feed, or lug hay bales."

    my reaction- who does this guy think he is? (by now I was really aggravated with this Denny guy)...what children is he talking about?...every day I feed my horse, clean his stall and other stalls, scrub slime, bring the pony in and out, pick his feet out (that one o found kind of random), change his blanket (way too much, stupid weather changes), pick his feed and lug hay bales as well as throwing them into the hay loft (we don’t have a nifty thing that does it for us, we have arms and muscles for a reason!?!)...by now I was kind of grr mommy for asking me to read this...

    yet there’s more...

    "One way for suburban children to acquire some kind of hands-on exposure is to become a member of a local pony club, and organization with goals and philosophies geared toward helping children acquire real horsemanship skills."

    my reaction- I only recently joined pony club, I’m unrated (as most of you know from other posts) and I have been doing just about everything pony club offers (with the exception of rallies and stuff like that) with out having to own a horse, or be obligated to something that you might not always be able to go to (don’t get me wrong I love pony club its fun!)

    this guy is getting on my bad side...

    "Another reason has to do with an attitude shift that sees manual labor as somehow demeaning. Lots of kids don’t mow the lawn. Why should they? A lawn mowing service comes to do that. They don’t wash the car. That’s what car washes are for. And they don’t groom their horses. That’s what grooms are for, isn’t it?"

    my reaction- I mow the lawn. I think its fun (I do ask my parents i will mow the lawn willingly) I wash the car. i enjoy that too (i cant even drive a car , an besides car washes scare me )and this groom business...(no offence to those who are grooms) but children should groom their own horse, i mean i help my friends if they are running behind, and a professional usually has other horses to ride and things to do but children, come on

    all right i will stop but trust me i could go on, and on and on. this article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? ...i have calmed down a lot from when i read this the first time and i am sorry if i made anyone mad from my anger but ahh!

    sorry it ran longer than i thought

    -Caroline

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    ~*I am just your ordinary
    Average every day sane psycho
    Supergoddess -Liz Phair
    ~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
    ~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
    ~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

    [This message was edited by Batteries Included on Feb. 25, 2004 at 03:01 PM.]
    "Just say what you think and write what you feel and eventually someone somewhere will appreciate it. And that’s all you can ask for." -CRD



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2003
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    Area l
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    Caroline, RELAX. I didn't read your entire rant because it was a bit...ranty. Obviously, Denny (Mr. Emerson to you) hasn't met you. If he had, I feel quite sure you would not have been included in his gross generalization. Mr. Emerson has been riding, training and competing horses since *LONG* before you were born. If he wants to write an article regarding the changes he has seen in how children learn about horses, he is entitled to it. Take a deep breath, be GLAD you know how to scrub slime out of a water bucket, be grateful that you have your pony in a place where you can decide what it eats. That is a gift and a priviledge. Fewer and fewer children now-a-days are as lucky as you.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    Kudos to you for being an extremely atypical American teen. I am surprised that you do not realize it. Since you are so hardworking why do you take the article as a personal attack? How about your friends who are "running behind" and need help to get their horses groomed? How many actual hours per day do they spend at the barn? Do you not realize that the REASON that there are hundreds and hundreds of "full care" boarding facilities across the country, and a lively cottage industry of "will ride for free" juniors and amateurs, not to mention trainers charging significant fees, is because many, many horsepersons (including jrs) do not have the time and/or inclination to care for their own horses or provide them with the amount of exercise they need? I have lost quite a few students because I require students to tack up their own horses, and the kids don't want to bother with the 'boring part'.

    Furthermore, very, very few "modern american children" live within reasonable distance of a barn where they can even AFFORD to take riding lessons, or have parents who are inclined to drive them back and forth on a daily basis. Especially not drive out to the barn, leave kid for a few hours so they can work off a lesson, drive BACK to the barn near nightfall to pick them up.... come on!! Even if every kid that lives in the suburbs (the vast majority of kids live in the suburbs or the city in case you didn't know) could go to the barn RIGHT after school (and don't even get me started on how lucky to have a parent or friend's parent who is available to chauffeur you around after school instead of having to be at WORK), and got home RIGHT before dinner, that would be about two hours a day because of the travel involved. Just because you're blessed doesn't mean you have to be blind.

    And what in g_d's green earth is wrong with the comment about pony club? It doesn't say anything about having to have a horse and cites it as one way for kids to get hands-on experience!

    JenniferS



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2000
    Location
    Durham/Chapel Hill nc
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    A tip:

    Sentences which begin "Kids today" (or "riders today" or "trainers today" to name a few) are by their very nature generalizations.

    Often the next sentance begins "When I was a kid/a trainer/a rider, we..." and there will be a recognizable but quite possibly stretched grain of truth there.

    When that second sentence does not involve walking through snow drifts to school uphill both ways, the generalization may very well be less of a stretch.

    This does not mean it will apply to everyone in the mentioned group, but just because it doesn't describe everyone perfectly does not mean there is not at least a grain of truth in the generalization.

    In this case, I'd say count your blessings, and note that in Denny Emerson's book (look up his resume, he's done a thing or two over the years http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif ) you are more likely on the path to becoming a real horseperson than many kids are...

    Enjoy your Chronicle! It is often (always?? usually??) full of interesting and thought provoking articles.

    Of course, back when I was a kid.....



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2000
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    USA
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    2,682

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    Caroline, from one of the many people who knows and respects Denny, let me say that he would eat you alive.
    Yes, he's a cynic when it comes to girls and their horses -- and that comes through in some of the hyperbole in this editorial -- but he is that way for a reason: Because he's been taking in young people like you as working students for the better part of 30 years (what's that, twice your lifespan?) and he knows from experience the vast gap between what teenagers (and adults, for that matter) know and what they *think* they know. He knows the vast gap between how quickly a horse or rider can truly learn new things and how quickly a rider expects she will become an expert, if she doesn't already think she is one. He knows the VAST gap between what most people picture themselves doing ("galloping across the green at Badminton") and the amount of work and heartbreak they are actually willing to put in to get there.
    Your reaction to his editorial feeds *exactly* into what he's talking about.
    That you are quite confident, for example, that you can school 8 IHSA horses you've never ridden before and know in the span of 15 minutes or a half hour exactly what kind of ride each needs, would testify quite clearly to that point of his. No offense to your skills, but most experienced and non-egomaniacal horse people would admit they can't do what you can.
    What if a more experienced horseperson, say a trainer you respect, had come up to you and suggested that your analyses of these horses were off? Would you defer to that person and listen to what he had to say, realizing his experience is far greater than yours, or would you say "I don't need some guy telling me I don't know what I'm doing!"?
    His editorial is meant to get you and hundreds of other riders thinking.
    You, apparently, are one of the lucky people who has a living situation that allows them to spend hours upon hours at the barn, and you have apparently made smart choices -- such as joining Pony Club, catch-riding a variety of horses and being involved in day-to-day horse care -- to take maximum advantage of the lucky situation you are in to build your knowledge and skills. (If you don't think you're lucky when you're out sloggy through mud and snow at 6 a.m., trying to cut frozen bailing twine loose, imagine how much unluckier you'd be to have a job or other obligations that prevented you from seeing your horse every day and spending all that quality time.)
    Clearly, you are an intelligent young lady who has been given, and has taken, excellent opportunties to expand her horse skills and knowledge.
    But your reaction to this simple editorial begs the next question: Will you continue to learn by taking in various people's input, digesting it reasonably and gleaning from it what new information you can, or will you chose to stroke yourself and your perception of your skills, refuting any advice or experience that doesn't jive with what you already know and assuming you know more than more knowledgeable horsepeople around you?
    PS, if you're curious as to who Denny is, go to his Web site at tamarackhill.com
    I evented just for the Halibut.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2000
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
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    I personally happen to think D.E. is spot-on for many many "riding people". Especially those who board, don't have horse facilities at home, and perhaps have lives that encompass other activities besides riding .....

    Not ALL horse people would fall in this category. You seem to think he is talking about you personally......

    D.E. is truly a wonderful spokesman for eventing and horsemanship. It would behoove you to know a bit more before you fly off the handle and act like you've been personally attacked!!!!

    huffily.....welshcob



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2003
    Location
    western mass
    Posts
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    i now realize he posts on these boards and was wondering if anyone could give me his sign-on so i could apoligize http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/sadsmile.gif???

    -Caroline

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    ~*I am just your ordinary
    Average every day sane psycho
    Supergoddess -Liz Phair
    ~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
    ~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
    ~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!
    "Just say what you think and write what you feel and eventually someone somewhere will appreciate it. And that’s all you can ask for." -CRD



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Oh, honey, relax! You're acting like this article is directed at you personally. Grow up. He's not talking about you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    From what I gleaned of your excerpts of Mr. Emerson's article, I agree with him 1000%. I've been a professional in this business for seventeen years and an amateur for a lot longer than that, and I have seen and agree with every point you listed from his article. Kids don't have sufficient exposure to everyday horse care to make them horsemen. They're riders at best, and dabblers at worst. You seem to be the exception to this, yet your credibility is compromised at your umbrage at his article. In short, you "doth protest too much". And to borrow another apt platitude, "if the shoe fits, wear it". If it doesn't, just ignore it and go on about your business. If you keep taking offense at every generalized article written about young people in the horse business, you'll stress yourself into either a heart attack or a whopping case of ulcers. RELAX! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:

    My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gifWith that kind of ego at what, 14?, I am sure that you will be ready to go be a working student for "This Denny Guy" (who does he think he is??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif)....I would bet that being a working student at Tamarack would clean some of that chip right off that inflated shoulder of yours.

    Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2004
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    Los Angeles, California
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    OMG!!! Let her be mad and have her own opinions. If she thinks that Denny Emerson is NOT the be all and end all of the world just be reading one article then let her. And who cares that he is such a great rider. What does that have to do with anything. Why should she say, "Because he is such a good rider he is completely justified in writing something I find offensive." She obviously felt strongly enough about the article to write a RANT about it and personally I don't think that being a great rider should have anything to do with changing her opinion. If she doesn't like the article she doesn't like the article. period.

    BI, think whatever you want to think!

    -Alison



  12. #12
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    Jan. 11, 2004
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    Los Angeles, California
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 17, 1999
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    Monetta, SC (Aiken-ish)
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    Sweetie, I'd recommend you getting hold of a bunch of past Chronicles and reading lots of Denny. I think you'll start respecting him. And there was a lot of truth in what he had to say - but no, not for everyone. Certainly not me and most people I know, but they're out there. And there's wanting to do those things that really make you a horseperson and not being blessed with that lifestyle. I lived in NYC area for a while and my horse was in SC. I saw what sort of limited time I would've had. I would've missed the opportunity to much a stall... There are those like me and those that wouldn't miss that in the least. Do not take it personally. Look at all aspects of what Denny was saying. I see that people he's talking about.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 24, 2000
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SayCheese:
    And who cares that he is such a great rider. What does that have to do with anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In this case, Denny's experience and perspective give him the credibility to write such an article. If it came from from someone who hasn't accomplished what he has, given back to the sport what he has, and been exposed to so many different kinds of horsemanship, I might be skeptical. But coming from Denny or his peers, who frankly are few and far between, I take this article seriously.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Batteries Included:
    Othis article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Caroline, the article wasn't a letter to you. It was a wake-up call intended to make riders, trainers, and parents think. There are lots of people out there, children and adults, who are very good horsmen, and Denny would be the last to discredit those people.

    Nonetheless, if you insist on taking the article personally, then go ahead and feel smug, because you are ahead of the game compared to the poor fools who don't throw hay bales every day.

    But if you are ready to be a grownup and thinking horseman, think about Denny's article differently. Think about what you still have to learn, and what unexpected ways there might be to learn it. Think about what has allowed you to become a knowledgable horseman, and how you can share those opportunities with other people. --Jess



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    I clicked into your post thinking it would be a good discussion of some horse and/or eventing related issue. But I am really ticked off.

    You are entitled to your opinion about things but it annoys me that you are using a "rant" post to brag about your horsemanship skills and all the hard work you do. I don't consider this a worthwhile issue to discuss. And no, I did not miss your point, it's how you made your point that annoyed me.

    In addition, please think before you write and be polite. I'm sure you are a nice, hard-working young girl but you need to get the facts before you speak (or write) and then show some respect to the person with which you are disagreeing.



  16. #16
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    The article would be directed at being a proper horseman. The development of horsemanship skills is usually the product of an individual who wants to learn and wants to care for and ride horses.

    Many individuals want to just ride and compete. And for them, they are usually in a position to pay someone else to do the dirty work for them.

    Conversely, many individuals make their living off of the folks who will pay, so they keep the horsemanship skills/expertise at arm's length from said clientele (very "Holy Grail" like) in an effort to perpetuate a living for themselves.

    Escuchen y repeaten ...

    "Symbiosis."

    So if you're offended by Mr. Emerson, I'd say you should re-read the article and then think about it from the angle we've all presented here.


    Robby

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    It doesn't mean that all my credit's bad


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  17. #17
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    Denny is my Hero, and always has been. He is DEAD right about alot of the up and coming horse folk in this country! I'm old 45 and have ridden and had horses all my life, and I can tell you, I still would go muck stalls for that man to get 1 hour of his wisdom on a horse! Get over yourself batteries, Be happy you feel you are not one of the ones he is referring to. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
    Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  18. #18
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    By the way, I cant seem to find the article, Anyone have a link I dont get the magazine any longer. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
    Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  19. #19
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    Batteries, if you think "all day" is between school and dinnertime, wait until you get into the "real world" where "all day" means 6am until 9pm sometimes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    I applaud your ability, at 14, to "school 8 horses over fences" and have them all figured out. The fact they are school horses and ridden by all manner of people? I will let that pass. When you can do the same with 8 green ones off the track, with no supervision, give Denny a call.

    I know you're 14...nobody here really expects a 14 year old to be a complete horseman, believe me. When you put yourself across as one, though, you make a fool of yourself. When you take offense at an article written by someone most of us consider a superior horseman, you make a fool of yourself. Humility is something we all learn one way or another...either it is forced on us by circumstance or we make it a part of growing up. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

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  20. #20
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    Nov. 25, 2002
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    I am not sure why you think that article was directly written to yourself?

    Also, if you want to apologize to Denny, you should not do it "because he posts here," but rather because you made unrational conclusions about this article and posted them publicly on a bulletin board.

    I am just out of the teenage years (20), but I get so sick of 14 and 15 year olds coming on the board ranting about ridiculous things because they think the world revolves around them (remember the USEA rant?). THINK before you say/write.



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    Last Post: Feb. 25, 2004, 11:17 AM

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