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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
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    1,377

    Default Suppliments for recovery from cartilage (meniscus) injury?

    If this was your horse - young (not of riding age), meniscal tear, and just starting 4 months of stall rest, what suppliments would you give?

    The horse just received PRP (platelet rich plasma) as treatment for the injury.

    The horse receives:
    loose vite/min
    20,000 mg MSM
    L-Lysine
    Hoof Suppliment - DL methionine, Biotin, Zinc, Vit C

    What other oral suppliments would you give?

    What, if any, injectable is recommended to speed or enhance healing? IV Legend? Adequan?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
    Posts
    2,458

    Default

    I would discuss adequan with the vet for sure!

    Otherwise, I would also look into good silicon supplements: sodium aluminum slicate (zeolite A) or orthosilic acid (silica). Zeolite has more studies to show its effect on horses (racehorses) while silica only has studies that show it is absorbed into the blood stream. Therefore is it hoped it has the same (if not better) result as zeolite, but it has not been tested against zeolite to know which works better clinically. The benefit to silica is it not bonded to aluminum, so the risk of aluminum excess is removed. However none of the studies shows the aluminum was harmful at dose given.

    Zeolite supplement:
    http://www.platinumperformance.com/E...tinfo/EOSTP10/

    Silica supplement:
    http://www.smartpakequine.com/Produc...8&cm_vc=Search



  3. #3
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Default

    Hey, thanks flyracing! You're awesome! That Platinum Performance Osteon looks great! I'll order some tomorrow.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2007
    Posts
    951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic View Post
    If this was your horse - young (not of riding age), meniscal tear, and just starting 4 months of stall rest, what suppliments would you give?

    The horse just received PRP (platelet rich plasma) as treatment for the injury.

    The horse receives:
    loose vite/min
    20,000 mg MSM
    L-Lysine
    Hoof Suppliment - DL methionine, Biotin, Zinc, Vit C

    What other oral suppliments would you give?

    What, if any, injectable is recommended to speed or enhance healing? IV Legend? Adequan?
    Did he have arthroscopic surgery? (just curious)



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2007
    Posts
    951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic View Post
    If this was your horse - young (not of riding age), meniscal tear, and just starting 4 months of stall rest, what suppliments would you give?

    The horse just received PRP (platelet rich plasma) as treatment for the injury.

    The horse receives:
    loose vite/min
    20,000 mg MSM
    L-Lysine
    Hoof Suppliment - DL methionine, Biotin, Zinc, Vit C

    What other oral suppliments would you give?

    What, if any, injectable is recommended to speed or enhance healing? IV Legend? Adequan?
    *If* this were my horse, supplement wise, I would do Platinum CJ, might add additional MSM (the PP has some already), keep the hoof supplement and maybe the Lysine. I have also supplemented with Grape Seed Extract in the past for healing. There are not going to be studies to back anything up on it, especially in horses, but it's one of those things....if it's only money....

    I would definitely do the Adequan shots (I would place priority on this before the supplements). I would consult an ortho surgeon, but something like the loading 7 dose and then another shot every two weeks for a few months. Legend, I personally wouldn't for this situation.

    Here's the info (or propaganda, lol??) on Grape Seed Extract - I personally just bought the capsules at GNC and added to feed. Cannot remember how much - got a rec from someone on COTH...


    GRAPE SEED EXTRACT HORSE SUPPLEMENT
    Grape Seed Extract is an excellent antioxidant that is helpful for horses with weakened immune systems or under periods of stress. It is thought to be helpful in older horses, especially those who seem to be in declining health. It is a great maintenence supplement as well.
    Antioxidants counter free radicals, which cause damage to cells and promote aging. As an antioxidant, GSE is 20 times stronger than vitamin C and 50 times stronger than vitamin E.
    Connective Tissue
    Grape Seed Extract promotes the repair of connective tissue and and also inhibits the enzymes that break down collagen, which can be beneficial for horses that exercise a lot.
    Anti-Inflammatory
    Grape Seed Extract can block the production of prostaglandins, which create inflammation and cause pain. The antioxidant properties of GSE can also speed up wound healing.
    Ulcers
    Performance horses, in particular, are prone to developing gastric ulcers. Grape Seed Extract can protect the lining of the stomach and reduce healing time.
    Acidosis
    A study published in the Cambridge University Press Journal revealed that Grape Seed Extract can reduce the possibility of acidosis, which is a risk especially for performance horses.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalDressage View Post
    *If* this were my horse, supplement wise, I would do Platinum CJ, might add additional MSM (the PP has some already), keep the hoof supplement and maybe the Lysine. I have also supplemented with Grape Seed Extract in the past for healing. There are not going to be studies to back anything up on it, especially in horses, but it's one of those things....if it's only money....

    I would definitely do the Adequan shots (I would place priority on this before the supplements). I would consult an ortho surgeon, but something like the loading 7 dose and then another shot every two weeks for a few months. Legend, I personally wouldn't for this situation.

    Here's the info (or propaganda, lol??) on Grape Seed Extract - I personally just bought the capsules at GNC and added to feed. Cannot remember how much - got a rec from someone on COTH...


    GRAPE SEED EXTRACT HORSE SUPPLEMENT
    Grape Seed Extract is an excellent antioxidant that is helpful for horses with weakened immune systems or under periods of stress. It is thought to be helpful in older horses, especially those who seem to be in declining health. It is a great maintenence supplement as well.
    Antioxidants counter free radicals, which cause damage to cells and promote aging. As an antioxidant, GSE is 20 times stronger than vitamin C and 50 times stronger than vitamin E.
    Connective Tissue
    Grape Seed Extract promotes the repair of connective tissue and and also inhibits the enzymes that break down collagen, which can be beneficial for horses that exercise a lot.
    Anti-Inflammatory
    Grape Seed Extract can block the production of prostaglandins, which create inflammation and cause pain. The antioxidant properties of GSE can also speed up wound healing.
    Ulcers
    Performance horses, in particular, are prone to developing gastric ulcers. Grape Seed Extract can protect the lining of the stomach and reduce healing time.
    Acidosis
    A study published in the Cambridge University Press Journal revealed that Grape Seed Extract can reduce the possibility of acidosis, which is a risk especially for performance horses.
    Why would you choose the pp cj? Because it is a multivite plus joint supplement? The OP's horse is already on a multivitamin. The horse need help healing cartilage; the joints are not under a lot of stress in a young horse on stall rest. I'm not saying this is wrong, just that I'm not following your logic and would love an explaination

    Grape seed extract is an interesting idea. I've seen hard working performance horses do really well on it.

    OP, the 20,000 mg of MSM is a pretty high dose even for older arthritic horses. MSM is known for being a component in gastric problems. You may want to consider switching some or all of that to grape seed extract while on stall rest. It has been shown in studies to be a much more powerful anti-inflammatory if that is what you are looking for.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2007
    Posts
    951

    Default

    The reason for the PP CJ would be basically, you're throwing everything you can afford (in a sense) at the horse. A lot of these things may not have much to back them up, scientifically speaking, but in theory could have positive effect. Yes, the horse is already on a muti-vit, but if it really were me, I would have to horse on Platinum instead. That is just me and my opinion.

    There are many things in the CJ that may in theory be beneficial, for a compromised horse, which if there is a meniscal tear, is what I would consider this horse for the time being. Besides the basics of Gluc, Chond, & HA, I feel the other thing in the CJ - Cetyl Myristoleate & ASU, could be helpful. I also like the Omega 3/6 in the Platinum.

    Very true that these thing may not be helpful, or maybe helpful but not significantly. It sounds like the OP wants to maybe throw everything and the kitchen sink at him, and I can definitely relate to that feeling, lol!

    Also, from what I understand of meniscal issues that good blood supply and circulation can be issues. May be worth looking into some other alternative therapies that could target this aspect of it. Maybe laser or PEMF or something like that.



  8. #8
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    Jul. 7, 2007
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    951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flyracing View Post
    Why would you choose the pp cj? Because it is a multivite plus joint supplement? The OP's horse is already on a multivitamin. The horse need help healing cartilage; the joints are not under a lot of stress in a young horse on stall rest. I'm not saying this is wrong, just that I'm not following your logic and would love an explaination

    Grape seed extract is an interesting idea. I've seen hard working performance horses do really well on it.

    OP, the 20,000 mg of MSM is a pretty high dose even for older arthritic horses. MSM is known for being a component in gastric problems. You may want to consider switching some or all of that to grape seed extract while on stall rest. It has been shown in studies to be a much more powerful anti-inflammatory if that is what you are looking for.
    On the GSE, do you recall what amounts it was being used at? There was someone on here recommending that and also CoQ10., but I cannot remember now at what mg's. I never did end up trying CoQ10 though. Always curious at peoples experiences with these things.

    Thanks -



  9. #9
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    Between 500 to 1,000 mg daily. Lower end for arthritis and higher end for copd (airway inflammation). I did a quick search though and found one supplement for horses that has 2,500 mg per dose. Seems excessive, but maybe it is in a form that is harder to absorb. Of course, it's always great when a supplement has a lot of something in it that basically goes straight through the horse. But I guess that's a whole other topic



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2008
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    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalDressage View Post
    Yes, the horse is already on a muti-vit, but if it really were me, I would have to horse on Platinum instead. That is just me and my opinion.

    There are many things in the CJ that may in theory be beneficial, for a compromised horse, which if there is a meniscal tear, is what I would consider this horse for the time being. Besides the basics of Gluc, Chond, & HA, I feel the other thing in the CJ - Cetyl Myristoleate & ASU, could be helpful. I also like the Omega 3/6 in the Platinum.
    If this horse is not receiving any fortified grain which I assume is the case given it is on stall rest and the OP mentions a vit/min supplement. Depending on what this vit/min supplement is I would not necessarily stop it in favor of platinum. I also really like the Omega 3/6 balance in platinum and a majority of horses need a supplemental source of omega 3 fatty acids. However, I find that when feeding the platinum at the recommended 132g dose per day on an all hay diet the typical 1100lb horse will likely come up short on copper and possibly zinc as well. A 132g dose of the base platinum only provides 13mg of copper and 132mg of zinc. An 1100lb horse at rest requires a MINIMUM of 100mg copper and 400mg zinc and as the minimum amount is unlikely to be optimal for most horses more than this amount may actually be needed. Most hay is very low in copper and only slightly higher in zinc. Given both these trace minerals are necessary for collagen formation I would want to make sure their levels were adequate when dealing with a soft tissue injury.

    Not knowing what vit/min supplement is being used it is not possible to say whether this horse is receiving enough of each of these trace minerals. However hoof supplements tend to contain very good levels of zinc.

    As trace minerals play an important role in the processes of soft tissue formation I always recommend that horses being rehabbed have their diet evaluated to insure adequate trace mineral intake and balance. From a strong trace mineral foundation other supplements such as the grape seed extract, MSM, etc can be added. A correctly balanced diet is the first step and probably the cheapest.

    Clair

    Independent Equine Nutritionist
    www.summit-equine.com



  11. #11
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    In addition to what Clair said, *I* always force-feed a silica-based product when injuries are present, no matter the type.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  12. #12
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Thank you for putting your brains together to come up with some excellent suggestions! I went a little hog wild today, and ordered the following (not all for this horse):

    From Platinum Performance:
    1) Equine Osteon
    2) Platinum Performance CJ

    From Bulk Nutrition:
    1) Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR)
    2) Chondroitin Sulfate
    3) Coenzyme Q10
    4) D-Glucosamine HCl
    5) Fructo Oligosaccharides (this is a pre-biotic)
    6) Hyaluronic Acid (Na Hyaluronate)
    7) Grape Seed Extract 95%
    8) DL-Malic Acid
    9) Magnesium Citrate

    Equilibrate: Thank you for the copper/zinc info. Interesting that Platinum Performance CJ is so low in copper and zinc. I will look at my loose vit/min suppliment and compare the copper and zinc.

    NorCalDressage: The treatment thus far has been Platelet Rich Plasma. Can you tell me more about Laser and PEMF?

    Thanks again for all of your help!



  13. #13
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    Well, since we are going to talk about platinum performance specifially, I'd like to also point out for a horse on grass hay the calcium to phosphorus is inverted. But pp also only gives a fraction of what is required daily (for calcium). So just be sure you have it balanced in the diet as a whole.



  14. #14
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    The grass hay is 1st Orchard. I also feed Alfalfa and Alfalfa Pellets (always soaked). Depends on the horse. Some get one or the other, or possibly both.



  15. #15
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    Aug. 22, 2005
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    mid-atlantic
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    Since silica is a primary component of soil, and since horses eat primarily grass & hay, is it really necessary to supplement?
    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 12, 2010
    Location
    Oregon
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    414

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    Herbalcom.com has grape seed powder cheaper than the grape seed extract - anyone used grape seed powder?



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