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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2005
    Location
    missoula. mt
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    1,567

    Default spin off: unregistered andalusian mare

    I have a similar story involving a VERY lovely purebred andalusian filly I purchased, for a sum equaling 2 mortgage pymts, to save a particular breeder's farm from default. (All documented BTW). This breeder (?) is now refusing to pass on the filly's papers. The IALHA cannot do anything to intervene other than to empathize, esp. since this person hasn't even gotten it together to register my filly's dam! Luckily, I love her so much that it really doesn't matter all that much. I'll never sell her. As a breeding mare she would be considered {{gulp}} GRADE; consequently her babies would be only registerable as 1/2 andalusian.
    To make matters even worse, and because I trusted this person, I didn't even have a bill of sale. The only thing that saved me was that I DID have a health certificate stating change of ownership and signed by this person, which enabled us to get her brand inspected. (legal proof of ownership in this state.)
    The moral of this story is kind of obvious!
    Last edited by springer; Oct. 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    37

    Default

    If by chance both parents are already registered with IALHA, if you pay for a DNA hair kit with IALHA, could they have her register as a full andalusian? did you ask them about that?
    "The Lusitano horse is an artistic creation; bore from the sensitivity of those who imagined and created him, who thrived to make the ideal dream horse a perfect reality. "
    www.keberica.com/english



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,889

    Default

    The issue is that the mare's dam is NOT registered. And she would still most likely need the breeder's cooperation... unless... You took her to court.

    I am sure that if you guys conversed about this mare, it was written somewhere, IE email. Call your internet provider and see if you can get access to old emails via court subpeona if you do not have those.

    I have a feeling once she gets served, she will be much nicer to deal with. While I'm assuming you got a bargain on the mare, at least in her eyes, this is still not fair to you at all. There is no reason to not give you that mare's papers. Talk to an attorney.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2005
    Location
    missoula. mt
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    Default

    MagicT... I DO have all the emails! (I never delete anything- hope the computer doesn't crash!) But the problem is that no one can force her to register my filly's dam. It's really not a big deal any more- would be nice to have papers, but I will never sell this filly. She's too special!
    Breeding, however... it will definitely decrease the value of her foals. It's such a shame too, because she is so special and so well bred.
    BUT..... There is another chapter to this story as well (got a minute to read this?) I also own (owned) another horse who she bred. I raised him from a weanling and never requested any paperwork from her, not even a bill of sale. Well, I just recently SOLD that horse. The buyer happens to be a friend as well as my dressage trainer, and she's not that worried about it, but on principle- I AM. No problem transfering ownership as I had a brand inspection on him, but it would be very nice if she had papers on him. I wrote her a very nice, business like letter today and hope she will respond. That's where it stands at the moment. Anyone who reads this whole thing gets a cookie!!!!!!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2009
    Posts
    411

    Default

    I like white choco macadamia. :-)

    I agree, I would talk to an attorney and see about getting her served. Mention to her that you wish to keep things civil and would rather work with her to increase her horses and breeding programs value as well as be fair to you since you do own the filly and the gelding. (which you sold, but she doesnt need to know that)

    Perhaps the IALHA can look into the fillies dam a little, see if theres any performance record (full sibling) something anything, and maybe get her into a lower book so your filly can be inspected on HER worth and get into the main book. Theres too few purebred Andalusians to waste good stock because some ones being stubborn. Try that angle with them, certainly doesn't hurt if your filly is of quality.

    I really hope this lady gets her act together. Its a pitty people need to be so unfair and unreasonable.

    Good luck!!! Ps. Would love to see pictures of your filly. I love baroque horses!!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2005
    Location
    missoula. mt
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    Default

    Thanks for your kind advice Vita! Your cookie is on it's way via carrier pidgeon
    Unfortunately I've spoken with several officers from the IALHA about this already and they have no record of the dam even existing. At least not under her name. I'm not even sure about ownership- she's got all kinds of weird ownership things going on with her horses but somehow seems to get by that way.
    The original deal was a good one on the filly but she was to receive the first foal back. That is in writing. She was VERY unhappy about having to sell the filly as she was never intended to be for sale. When I refused to give her the option to purchase the filly back once she got back on her feet, she refused to give me any paperwork at all. Even a bill of sale. ( It was very scary for awhile as I was afraid that I couldn't even prove ownership, but the signed health certif saved me thank God. ) At this point she already had my money and I had become very emotionally attached. We had owned her for 4 months by then but had never gotten any paperwork. I felt justified in saying no in that I had done the woman a GI NORMOUS favor and baled her out of a BAD financial bind. Hard to believe, but this is a true story!!!
    Last edited by springer; Jul. 2, 2011 at 09:40 AM.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    37

    Default

    oups sorry! didnt notice you were referring to the mare...

    You have more informations on the mare? what race is she? did she import her? or it's one born at her farm from her breeding program? Just saying in case that she is a Lusitano and could have bought her adult from a Brazilian breeder, they almost all have their horses registered with ABPSL... maybe you could try to go that far...for parentage testing... or maybe with ANCCE is she is a PRE...
    "The Lusitano horse is an artistic creation; bore from the sensitivity of those who imagined and created him, who thrived to make the ideal dream horse a perfect reality. "
    www.keberica.com/english



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2009
    Location
    Eastern Ontario, CND
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    It's not hard to believe at all.

    I hope you get things sorted out. I've been meaning to get around to getting my 1/2 registered, I'm not sure her sire's paperwork has been sent in yet & the breeder has been a little evasive about that too (which is't hard for 4 provinces away). I got it in the sales contract, although I'm not sure where that would get me if I wanted to challenge it .

    GL! Keep us posted .
    "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
    Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
    Need You Now Equine



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2009
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Springer. I anxiously await my pigeon and cookie.. if he doesnt eat it first. HAHA!! Ok, back to business.

    I guess the only option is to talk sense into the lady. Like I mentioned it does her breeding stock good to get her mare inspected, and IF she in-fact does want a foal out of your filly, well then she has no choice. Maybe one day she'll get a wild hair up her...dot dot dot... and decide that sounds like a good idea.

    I would get your girl into one of the half bred books for now, and just keep after the breeder. If she wants a foal out of your filly, then she better inspect her mare, once that happens you can get your filly inspected for the main books.

    Good luck! Its refreshing to hear a story where the horse is so loved even with out her papers and the baggage from her previous "relationship" haha! Congrats!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    5,542

    Default

    Is it simply a matter of DNA and payment, or does the mare need to go to an inspection? If its the former, I'd offer to do it for her.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2009
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joiedevie99 View Post
    If its the former, I'd offer to do it for her.
    Oo! I like this idea. Kind of stinks that you have to do it for her mare, but it certainly helps you and adds value for your filly.
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2005
    Location
    missoula. mt
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    Default

    That all sounds like good advice guys, except that we are no longer speaking to one another! The few attempts I've made to contact her have been unanswered.



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