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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
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    113

    Default PSSM diet for fat horse Update

    I have a 10 year old Dutch WB mare whose problems I suspect are PSSM. No stamina, stiff gaits, refuses to canter, sweats easily during exercise. She was a lovely, free, fluid mover as a baby, and now she moves like a halter horse.

    She is already on a low starch diet - grass hay, 3 cups of forage supplement, and I just started her on magnesium. I have not fed her extra fat because she has always tended to be quite chubby no matter what I do. However, I am reading that they need fat anyway. Any suggestions how to handle this?

    I would also welcome any other advice regarding PSSM.

    TIA!
    Last edited by Galloping Granny; Oct. 22, 2010 at 04:57 PM. Reason: update



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2004
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    Left coast, left wing, left field
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    Just do it!

    Here's my anecdotal evidence. I have two draft cross mares, same age (2003 models!) but oh-so-different. One presented as classic EPSM/PSSM. The other has always been agile, free-moving, light as a feather, great topline, etc. But what did I know, I thought heck, they are both draft crosses, I'll try the diet on both of them.

    The classic EPSM mare LOST weight on it. She tucked up, she shaped up. It was downright amazing.

    The other mare started channeling Porky Pig.

    So that's my story -- I think if they are meant to have a high fat diet it is because that is what they metabolize. The stuff my mare WAS eating was what was making her pudgy.
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
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    5,292

    Default

    Unless you've had that grass hay tested, it might very well NOT be low in sugars. Some grass hays are very high. So that might be one place to start.



  4. #4
    kvjyles Guest

    Default

    PSSM is a condition in horses where there is abnormal glycogen storage occurring in muscles resulting in the accumulation of excessive amounts of glycogen and an unusable polysaccharides.My horse was never fed a lick of grain when his EPSM started-back before any of us had even heard of it.I tried him on the oil diet for nearly two years and he got so bad he couldn't get up from laying down or lift his hind legs for shoeing.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2002
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    1,312

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    My mare is suspected of having EPSM/PSSM. She used to be on a free choice hay with very little grain diet. Now that she is eating an EPSM type diet, her physique has improved and she seems more mellow. She is eating 2.5lbs/ TC Senior twice a day & about 2/3 the amount of hay she was previously eating divided into 5 feedings. She has been getting Reitsport all along, but I have added oil, daily electrolytes, DMG, & vitamin E (her E level was very low).

    I learned a lot on Dr. Valentine's website. I felt like a fish out of water when the vet and I were changing my girl over to this diet, but Dr. V's website helped a ton!

    My vet did not want to do a muscle biopsy over the summer due to flies. We began the diet in hopes it would help. I guess it takes a couple months to see results. Since we have seen the desired results, per the vet's advice, we are just continuing with the diet and not bothering with the biopsy at this point.
    Beth



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,132

    Default

    Yep, more than a few fat EPSM horses have lost that weight when fat was added to the diet You'll just have to try and see, knowing you could be looking at several months before you know anything.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2008
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Paco always was an easy keeper, and when he is eating what is perfect for him he is sleek and sassy.

    Trooper does not have PSSM, however he does tend to wear his back around his knees now that he is a senior. Adding fat to his diet slims him down and gets that topline back in its rightful place We were able to get away with just a couple of pounds of Ultium when we started, but now he just gets oil mixed in with Healthy Edge and it is giving the same effect.
    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    3,670

    Default

    You may want to join the EPSM support group in yahoo groups, it's moderated by Dr Eleanor Kellon.
    I recently joined.

    The feeling there is not to specifically add more fat, for those horses already in good bodyweight, but to feed a supplement : acetyl l-carnitine (about 6,000gm/day). A lot of posters have had good results with that.

    You buy the supplement bulk. I just bought it from Nutrabio.com

    I'd say considering the positive result that group has had, it's worth a try.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
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    1,807

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieslot View Post
    You may want to join the EPSM support group in yahoo groups, it's moderated by Dr Eleanor Kellon.
    I recently joined.

    The feeling there is not to specifically add more fat, for those horses already in good bodyweight, but to feed a supplement : acetyl l-carnitine (about 6,000gm/day). A lot of posters have had good results with that.

    You buy the supplement bulk. I just bought it from Nutrabio.com

    I'd say considering the positive result that group has had, it's worth a try.
    Where else can you buy this supplement and what form does it come in? Pill, granular, liquid?



    Thanks



  10. #10
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    Mar. 14, 2004
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    Left coast, left wing, left field
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalemma View Post
    Where else can you buy this supplement and what form does it come in? Pill, granular, liquid?

    Thanks
    Do a search (I chose acetyl l-carnitine horse so I didn't have to wade through pages of human supplement stores/advice/testimonials). It's available at Fox Den, Smartpak, etc. Sounds like it's usually a powder but I just looked very quickly, have to get back to work!
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoZ View Post
    Do a search (I chose acetyl l-carnitine horse so I didn't have to wade through pages of human supplement stores/advice/testimonials). It's available at Fox Den, Smartpak, etc. Sounds like it's usually a powder but I just looked very quickly, have to get back to work!
    Thanks.......I'm in Canada so trying to find a place close by rather then having to go to the US.

    Dalemma



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    Warren County, NJ
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    Acetyl l-carnitine, it's a powder with no filler, pure product.

    I think Foxden Equine will ship to Canada, they have it too.
    http://www.foxdenequine.com/cart/index.htm#ALC
    600g jar (100 days) for $40.

    You can also buy the human 500mg capsules at any healthfoodstore nearby. But it will be more expensive that way, and time consuming, opening 12 capsules daily



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
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    Thank you...I will do some more checking........my horses will likely not notice the capsules and just eat them along with her beet pulp.

    Dalemma



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    Warren County, NJ
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    I just did some googling for Canada, it's partially banned, I found out on some bodybuilders website. That stuff is often taken in high doses by bodybuilders.

    So you may have to order online from the US, you won't find it in healthfood stores in Canada, as far as I can tell. Perhaps talk to your vet, and you may be able to get it on prescription, dunno.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Thank you all for your help! I'm sorting out all the information in my mind and will come up with a diet plan. I have realized after analyzing all her feed that my mare has practically no fat in her diet!

    Liesalot, I am confused about the amount of acetyl L-carnatine to feed. You said 6,000 gm per day, but one entire container of the powder is 1,000 gm, and the others are smaller! Did you mean mg instead of gm? I do think I'll try that (unless I have to feed 6 containers per day! LOL)



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    Warren County, NJ
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    Liesalot, I am confused about the amount of acetyl L-carnatine to feed. You said 6,000 gm per day, but one entire container of the powder is 1,000 gm, and the others are smaller! Did you mean mg instead of gm? I do think I'll try that (unless I have to feed 6 containers per day! LOL)
    Sorry GG, yes indeed I meant to type 6g or 6,000mg.
    It's actually a tiny amount when you measure it out of the pure bulk powder, since it has no fillers.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
    Location
    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
    Posts
    6,258

    Default

    Granny, there's no need to go it alone; the science is pretty well developed by now, and there are complete feeds and ration balancers that can address your horse's metabolism.

    Click on the links below and browse through KER's website--look particularly at Re-Leve concentrate.

    Don't hesitate to get in touch with KER--they are tops in this field and will be happy to advise you:

    http://www.ker.com/consultation/HorseOwners/ask.html



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
    Posts
    113

    Default Is it possible???

    OK. My mare has been on magnesium for a week, and I gave her a higher fat diet last night for the first time. I have realized she was getting zero fat in her diet.

    Today I longed her and was shocked at what I saw: willingness to go forward from the very beginning (used to have to practically beat on her just to get a big walk), a bigger overstride from the beginning than we used to get after she loosened up at the end, and some actual elasticity in her gait, which I haven't seen in years! She even picked up a nice canter on her own and kept it. Previously she would only canter if I chased her into it, and then it was rushed, she would buck, and stop as soon as she could. Could I be getting results this soon? It just doesn't seem possible.



  19. #19
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    Feb. 3, 2005
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    Black & white cow country
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galloping Granny View Post
    OK. My mare has been on magnesium for a week, and I gave her a higher fat diet last night for the first time. I have realized she was getting zero fat in her diet.

    Today I longed her and was shocked at what I saw: willingness to go forward from the very beginning (used to have to practically beat on her just to get a big walk), a bigger overstride from the beginning than we used to get after she loosened up at the end, and some actual elasticity in her gait, which I haven't seen in years! She even picked up a nice canter on her own and kept it. Previously she would only canter if I chased her into it, and then it was rushed, she would buck, and stop as soon as she could. Could I be getting results this soon? It just doesn't seem possible.
    There have been stories of horses having dramatic, almost sudden improvement from adding fat into the diet. But please make sure you add the fat in gradually...you don't want to create any gastrointestinal upset from changing the diet too quickly.

    I hope you've found the solution for your mare. I remember my "aha" moment when I tried the higher fat diet with my mare and saw some pretty significant improvement. It's exciting stuff.
    Happiness is the sweet smell of horses, leather, and hay.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
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    113

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    Yesterday she got two cups of sunflower seeds and two cups of empower in addition to a reduced amount (two cups instead of three) of her regular forage supplement. I was waiting to try to add oil until lI saw if this made any difference. I can't wait to see what happens in the next week or two! I still can't believe that there could be a change this soon, but I know I didn't imagine it. Hope it sticks!



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