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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
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    5,763

    Default Strangles notification...

    This is in NY, in case state laws prevail... is a vet allowed to give strangles test results on a horse to a boarding barn owner if the horse owners have refused to give the results to the barn owner or other boarders?

    A horse at my barn came down with strangles symptoms last week and was quarantined in a separate outbuilding, and the test done. The horse owners say that the results have not come in yet. It's been a week now, so this seems shady to me--I thought the test was 4 days at most. I'm guessing that the test is positive and that's why they don't want to share the results.

    So right now I'm missing lessons, trail rides with my friends from another barn, and probably a show in a week, because I have to assume that it is strangles until notified otherwise... and the barn owner, who is taking care of the horse, is still having to disinfect and change clothes a gazillion times a day. I obviously don't want it to be strangles, but I would at least rather know what the test results are so I could make decisions accordingly, since something like this can affect my plans for months--not to mention the other dozen boarders who are likewise in limbo.

    Meanwhile, the idiot owner of the sick horse keeps coming up to the main barn to use the bathroom or go into the tack room, despite having been told repeatedly that she is not under any circumstances to go there. The legal ramifications if she gets my horse sick and I am obligated to punch her are a whole different matter, I suppose...

    So, I know there are normally confidentiality issues, but wouldn't a vet be obligated to tell the property owner if there's a contagious horse on the property if the horse's owners refuse to?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2004
    Location
    Left coast, left wing, left field
    Posts
    5,849

    Default

    Here is the national list of reportable diseases. Strangles is not on it. You'd have to find out if it is reportable in your state. It is NOT reportable in Washington State.

    "According to the USDA’s National Animal Health Reporting System (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahss/d...tus.htm#equine) the following horse diseases are reportable to state and/or federal animal health authorities. Individual states may require additional diseases to be reported and additional diseases may be added to this list at any time.
    Vesicular Stomatitis (VS)
    African horse sickness
    Anthrax (Bacillus anthracis)
    Echinococcosis / hydatidosis
    Leptospirosis
    Rabies
    New World screwworm (Chrysomyia hominivorax)
    Old World screwworm (Chrysomyia bezziana)
    Trichinellosis (Trichinela spiralis)
    Contagious equine metritis (Taylorella equigenitalis)
    Dourine (Trypanosoma equiperadum)
    Equine infectious anemia (EIA)
    Equine influenza (Virus Type A)
    Equine piroplasmosis (Babesiosis, Babesia [Piroplasma] equi, B. caballi)
    Equine rhinopneumonitis (EHV 1 and 4) Equine herpesvirus myeloencephalopathy (EHV1 - EHM)
    Glanders (Pseudomonas mallei)
    Equine viral arteritis (EVA)
    Japanese encephalitis
    Surra (Trypanosoma evansi)
    Venezuelan equine encephalomyelitis
    Tularemia (Francisella tularensis)
    West Nile fever
    Equine encephalomyelitis (Eastern)
    Equine encephalomyelitis (Western)"
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    5,763

    Default

    Thank you--I looked up the same list in NY and it doesn't contain strangles, so I take it that anyone who wants to be an arse and keep 30 other horses in quarantine limbo out of spite is perfectly able to. Gaaaaaaaaaaaah. Punching may ensue.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    3,339

    Default

    What if the barn paid for the strangles test? Or you did? Then wouldn't the results be yours/the barns? Just a thought. But then I am not sure why the owner of the horse would lie about test results or lack thereof.

    And before you go punching her, keep in mind it is entirely possible that other horses in the barn are carriers of strangles even if they show no symptoms, so if another horse gets it, it may not be through hers.

    I hope for your sake it is not strangles though!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2004
    Location
    Ambler, PA
    Posts
    651

    Default

    my horse is currently recovering from strangles...he has been symptom free & quarantined for 30+ days. my vet came monday to re-swab for a culture/pcr and told me that i may not get results until early next week.

    i would not be so quick to assume the owner is being spiteful. and i can assure you that however much this is inconveniencing you...it is worse for the owner of the sick horse.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2007
    Posts
    134

    Default

    It took me over 7 days to get my results back. Glad nobody punched me!

    The barn owner can always ask the boarder for permission to speak with the boarders vet?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    5,763

    Default

    Just to clarify--obviously I'm exaggerating on the punching, but I am kinda ticked. Specifically, I'm mad at the owner *if* she is choosing not to share the results of the test and has them in--I'm still giving her another day or two before I'd completely call shenanigans, as it's only been a week, but it really seems strange to me if test results aren't in after that point because all I've read says that the longest test takes about four days on average. However, I gather from responses here that there are tests that I don't know about that take longer, and so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for another day or two, so please forgive me on that.

    But I'm also mostly mad at her because I've seen her deliberately ignoring the quarantine and making no effort to try to contain the germs... I know strangles is easy to spread and if my horse catches it I can't necessarily blame her, but it really bothers me that she completely disregards the welfare of other horses by ignoring the rules. Having a sick horse is awful, but even if I were upset and stressed and frustrated, I wouldn't want to visit those same stressors on other horse owners.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    While I feel your pain, and I think in this situation withholding information is wrong, I also feel for the owner. When my horse came down with strangles, the BO/BM stepped in a tried to keep me (and my vets) from treating him with abx for fear of bastard strangles, so I didn't share any additional information regarding his health status/care after that. While it's not exactly the same situation, there are confidentiality laws and it is their right to keep quiet.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Posts
    2,898

    Default

    I think right now it's a pretty big assumption on your part that the owner is spitefully keeping the test results to themselves. If another week goes by, then I'd start assuming, but right now I'd certainly give them the benefit of the doubt.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    5,763

    Default

    Morganpony, I can certainly understand in your situation--how awful! I'd still consider myself a new horse owner and am always open to my barn owner giving me advice, but to try to go above the authority of the horse owner and make medical decisions for the horse is ridiculous...

    DWB, it is a big assumption and I'm hesitant to make it, but there are other factors that make me less inclined to give the owners the benefit of the doubt... I really don't want to get into that issue as much, just questioning whether *if* they have the test results and don't share it, if the people caring for the animal (i.e. the barn owner) and the other horses exposed to it would have any legal right to find out. Looks like that's not the case though, so it's a moot point... just going to have to hope that the owner does do the right thing, regardless!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    3,119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahandSam View Post
    Just to clarify--obviously I'm exaggerating on the punching, but I am kinda ticked. Specifically, I'm mad at the owner *if* she is choosing not to share the results of the test and has them in--I'm still giving her another day or two before I'd completely call shenanigans, as it's only been a week, but it really seems strange to me if test results aren't in after that point because all I've read says that the longest test takes about four days on average. However, I gather from responses here that there are tests that I don't know about that take longer, and so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for another day or two, so please forgive me on that.

    But I'm also mostly mad at her because I've seen her deliberately ignoring the quarantine and making no effort to try to contain the germs... I know strangles is easy to spread and if my horse catches it I can't necessarily blame her, but it really bothers me that she completely disregards the welfare of other horses by ignoring the rules. Having a sick horse is awful, but even if I were upset and stressed and frustrated, I wouldn't want to visit those same stressors on other horse owners.
    Are you familiar with the nick feature length animation "Barnyard"? mainly the part where the mule keeps kicking the farmer in the head and knocks him out and then the animals set up various scenarios of how the farmer got knocked out?

    just kinda reminded of the scene when you suggested punching her... too bad you don't have a mule around to do your dirty work for ya
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2002
    Posts
    2,517

    Default

    It can take a week or so to get the results of a test for strangles.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,795

    Default

    While the vet can't share the results of the test with you or the BO, seems you could pretty easily call the vet and ask how long such a test takes. Like, if I have you come out and swab Fluffy today, when would I expect to get the results?

    The horse owner not following the quarantine protocol would bother me also, and it seems that is something the BO should address. Just like any other rules, it is up to the BO or BM to make sure they are followed.

    I do pity the person that owns the first horse that gets whatever (strangles or anything else) that blows through a barn. But they still have to do the right thing and that means be smart about limiting the spread as much as they can. But the BO/BM should be the one to deal with that, and quickly.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Posts
    2,898

    Default

    Ah, I see there may be more to the story then you can reveal. I would certainly hope the owners are not in fact hiding the results. That would be completely selfish, even if it means people blaming them. The right thing is to share the results with the other boarders, so I do hope they make that decision. I would INSIST to the BO/BM that they enforce the quarantine rules on these owners. It will make no difference that the BO/BM are sanitizing themselves like crazy if the darn owners are not doing it as well! Best of luck!!!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2008
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    5,763

    Default

    Thanks all! Barn owner has repeatedly told them to follow the rules and they're ignoring him--and can't really get kicked out if their horse is contagious, because they'd have to go to another boarding barn, and that's unfair to the other barn. Sigh... Just going to hope for good results soon!

    Caterson, there is a donkey at the barn.... hmm. d;



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    15,446

    Default

    We had a potentially contagious horse and the vet asked the barn be closed to visitors...even boarders. Different situation, because it was one of my horses that was sick. Looked like Potomac but wasn't. There was another horse treated at Rood & Riddle with the same symptoms. We never did figure out what it was.

    I would think BO could ban horse owner from the facilities except the quarantine barn with a notice that if she continues to ignore the ban, she is banned from the grounds. Period. I would do it it a heartbeat. If she wants to move horsey. Fine. That's one of the reasons I always require a health cert for a new horse, keeps me out of trouble I can avoid. I'm always suspicious of someone who needs to move in a hurry with no recent references.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2004
    Location
    Ambler, PA
    Posts
    651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post

    I would think BO could ban horse owner from the facilities except the quarantine barn with a notice that if she continues to ignore the ban, she is banned from the grounds. Period. I would do it it a heartbeat. If she wants to move horsey. Fine.
    i would LOVE to see what would have happened if the owners of my boarding barn had tried to ban me from the facility while my horse was sick. it's things like this that make the horse owners feel persecuted and uncomfortable sharing information on their horse's condition.

    and moving a horse who is symptomatic with what may or may not be strangles is certainly not "fine". i think it would be more productive to find out why the owner is going into the tack room or main barn...and find a way to avoid it. does she need things? medication? grooming supplies? if so, can those things be moved to the quarantine area?

    there were times i needed to go into the main barn...but i made sure i went there first, while my clothes/shoes/self were not contaminated. just because you see the owner in the barn does not mean she is breaking quarantine.

    it is not the owner's fault that the horse got sick...calling them an idiot, an arse, spiteful, etc. is not going to help anyone.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2007
    Location
    Bonner Springs, KS
    Posts
    150

    Default the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one

    I use this quote a lot! First of all, the BO should be communicating with all clients about what is going on and removing any speculation, concern, discord, anxiety, etc. First and foremost it is the BO's responsibility to respect the concerns of all the owners. The owner of the horse potentially impacted in your barn would have absolutely no say in how we would manage the situation.

    We had the unfortunate experience of managing strangles in our 50+ stall facility in 2005. As SOON as the possiblity of strangles was raised and before confirmed, we went into action treating it as if it was. We spoke with the vets treating the horse (who was at our vet school by then) and got our local vet involved. A email was sent to all boarders with what we knew, what we did not know, and what actions we were taking. We also sent a couple articles about strangles. We voluntarily quanrantined the barn - no one in or out.

    Included in this was the RULES for everyone to follow. These rules were adjusted as we managed through this. The rules were not negotiable.

    Each horse had their temperature taken 2 x daily as well as very careful observation of behavior, eating, pooping, etc. All was noted on a spreadsheet that hung on a clipboard outside the office door.

    Daily updates were sent to the boarders so everyone was in the loop.

    We got a couple of the industrial chemical sprayers, the kind you wear on your back, and sanitized every stall, aisle, cross-tie, etc. It was a challenge shifing horses around so their stall could be stripped, sanitized and rebedded within 24 hours.

    Then all common areas were sanitized 2x day. All turnout paddocks were sprayed at the end of each day. We designated paddocks as 'clean' - no strangles horse had been in them and then 'dirty' - strangles horse had been in them and then adjusted turnout accordingly and maintained it.

    we followed customary rules for preventing contamination.

    We managed to keep the impact to less than 15 horses as a result. We were quarnatined for 4 months from start to finish. We did not lift our voluntary quarnatine until 30 days following the last temperature. And we continued the temperature checks for 30 days following that.

    The only time I demanded a boarder leave immediately was during this period of time when they refused to follow the rules. Their horse was one impacted yet they thought it was OK to ride the horse in 94 degree heat the day following his temp breaking. Our rules required all impacted horses be restricted to their stalls until 72 hrs following their temp breaking, then to a 'dirty' turnout paddock for 7 more days and then they could return to common areas. She did this twice and we warned her that the third time she would be asked to leave.

    Well, the b**** did not like the 'dirty' paddock her horse was assigned and waited for me to leave the property so that she could put her horse in a 'clean' paddock. One of the other boarders call me and I returned to catch the horse in the paddock. My exact words were 'you f***** selfish b****, get you and your horse off our property now.' She was gone 48 hrs later. I also told her if she tried to go to any barn and not disclose where she was coming from, I would do it for her. While I did kick her out, I was not going to let her lie to another barn. Since she didn't have a trailer and the horse community is pretty small, she followed that last rule. A friend with her own barn took her in.

    While I respect that most times the owner knows best but there are times when the BO knows best in terms of respecting the needs of the many.

    We have a barn in the area that has had strangles but they are taking no precautions, no quarantine and horses are still going in & out. There is a group that is livid wants to get out but they can't find a barn to take them. Not fair to the boarders nor the horses.

    I hope you BO takes charge quickly so that if this is strangles that their actions now prevent the impact. good luck.
    m



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
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    3,681

    Default

    Any idea why it's not reportable here in Washington??


    Here is the national list of reportable diseases. Strangles is not on it. You'd have to find out if it is reportable in your state. It is NOT reportable in Washington State.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    15,446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chezzie View Post
    i would LOVE to see what would have happened if the owners of my boarding barn had tried to ban me from the facility while my horse was sick. it's things like this that make the horse owners feel persecuted and uncomfortable sharing information on their horse's condition.

    and moving a horse who is symptomatic with what may or may not be strangles is certainly not "fine". i think it would be more productive to find out why the owner is going into the tack room or main barn...and find a way to avoid it. does she need things? medication? grooming supplies? if so, can those things be moved to the quarantine area?
    Maybe they're going to the barn because they simply don't care about the other boarders. This is a perfect example where the BO/BM needs to step in and explain the rules, to everyone. With no exceptions. For the safety of the other horses. And, maybe the owner does need something. But for Pete's sake, she can't plan ahead? Get someone else to get it for her?

    She most certainly shouldn't be keeping ANY of her supplies in the main barn...there's a quarantine area for a reason. If she respected the other boarders, she wouldn't put their horses at risk.

    Thankfully, my only on-site boarder at the time of my horses illness respected the barn closing. We did additional grooming, etc. at no charge because she was unable to.



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