The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1

    Default ASPCA Unites With Other Groups to Sue BLM

    What a huge undertaking this is - the is a complicated and expensive case, and I am very interested to see how it plays out.

    http://www.allpetspost.org/allhorsespost/?p=4946



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2002
    Posts
    1,759

    Default

    From the article:

    "A case filed today against Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar in federal court aims to stop the elimination of wild horses from Colorado’s North Piceance herd area.

    On September 10th, 2010 the White River Field office of the BLM issued its final decision to completely and permanently eliminate the herd of wild horses which has lived in partnership with the natural environment in the Herd Area for centuries."

    From the BLM Decision Record:

    The Bureau of Land Management has issued the final environmental assessment and decision record for its gather plan for the wild horse population in and around the Piceance-East Douglas Herd Management Area southwest of Meeker, Colo.

    Beginning about Oct. 11, BLM will gather the estimated 138 wild horses outside of the Herd Management Area, which is a 190,000-acre area managed for a healthy wild horse herd that is in balance with other resources and uses.

    BLM will not gather any of the estimated 318 wild horses currently found within the Herd Management Area at this time pending additional analysis. The appropriate management level identified for the population in this HMA is between 135 and 235 wild horses."

    Note that the BLM is gathering OUTSIDE of the herd management area. The horses that are in the HMA are not scheduled to be gathered and there is still an appropriate management level identified for that HMA. They are not trying to eliminate the wild horses from the HMA.

    http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/BLM_Info..._decision.html

    It does appear that they are removing all the horses from a neighboring HMA because it is not suited as well to wild horses. But they will continue to manage the other HMAs for horses.

    “The West Douglas Herd Area is simply not as suitable for wild horses as the area to the east,” said Field Manager Kent Walter. “Wild horses are an integral part of the multiple use management of the 1.5-million acre White River Field Office. We will continue to manage for wild horses in the better-suited, 190,000-acre Piceance-East Douglas Herd Management Area.”

    So it seems they are not removing all the horses from the area and they are not eliminating all the horses in the Piceance-East Douglas Herd Management Area as the article says.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    33,594

    Default

    to their estimation even the management area is overstocked by close to twice the amount they consider the area can handle...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    All aboard the train wreck of the day. *passes out juice, coffe and donuts.*

    I've already danced to this tune once about the BLM and their "management" of wild horses. The irony of the fact these horses really have been here for centuries and helped America become what it is today doesn't matter one whit to plenty who think they are not Native and should be all destroyed and gone. Never mind plenty of those horses have actually had a hand in making the horse breeds they breed and love so much. I have no issues with the wild populations being managed but I think there needs to be better checks and balances on the BLM and a serious audit needs to be done ASAP.
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    33,594

    Default

    well, mules and oxen contributed more, along with good old shoe leather, also, 'back in the good old days' there were also more predators to thin the herds. Humans have done away with a lot of those, so now they also have to thin Trigger and Bambie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258

    Default

    Make way for the cattle. Glad they did this - needs to be an outside opinion on all of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by leilatigress View Post
    All aboard the train wreck of the day. *passes out juice, coffe and donuts.*

    I've already danced to this tune once about the BLM and their "management" of wild horses. The irony of the fact these horses really have been here for centuries and helped America become what it is today doesn't matter one whit to plenty who think they are not Native and should be all destroyed and gone. Never mind plenty of those horses have actually had a hand in making the horse breeds they breed and love so much. I have no issues with the wild populations being managed but I think there needs to be better checks and balances on the BLM and a serious audit needs to be done ASAP.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    33,594

    Default

    Now someone please explain why the ASPCA - as far as I remember NOT a national organization is jumping on BLM issues...other than the 'safe the Mustangs' donation gravy train....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2002
    Posts
    1,759

    Default

    Contrary to popular belief, there will not be more cattle added to the BLM. Grazing permits are a set number of livestock and there are no increases to livestock numbers on those permits. Cattle numbers have actually been reduced over the years and probably will continue to be reduced due to the difficulty of actually making any money running a public land ranch, and the further reduction in permitted numbers.

    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Now someone please explain why the ASPCA - as far as I remember NOT a national organization is jumping on BLM issues...other than the 'safe the Mustangs' donation gravy train....
    More welfare of the mustangs. Government funds are allocated for round up and housing among other things. But there are literally thousands of already rounded up mustangs eating their way through the funds. Its a really fine balance to figure out how many you can house & care for when you have cattlemen, residents & activists all screaming out your not doing the right thing. I don't envy the BLM at all on this.

    I'm staying away from the cattle debate. Having worked on cattle ranchs in Texas in August I have first hand knowledge what a PITA it is to balance grazing, water etc.
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,064

    Default

    I only skimmed the pleadings, but I really don't know if they'll get much traction on that injunction. To get an injunction, you have to demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits of the case.

    See, the courts don't get to tell an agency, like the BLM, how to do its job. The only thing the court gets to do is make sure the agency is following its own rules.

    It's a pretty high standard. The plaintiff would have to show the agency was "arbitrary and capricious" in its decision-making - IOW, not following its own rules, in order to succeed.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258

    Default

    They really don't help their cause by not allowing people in to see what's going on. Alot of the mustangs are now "housed" on private sites - so again - no access. If they would let people see what happens, it would be much better for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by leilatigress View Post
    More welfare of the mustangs. Government funds are allocated for round up and housing among other things. But there are literally thousands of already rounded up mustangs eating their way through the funds. Its a really fine balance to figure out how many you can house & care for when you have cattlemen, residents & activists all screaming out your not doing the right thing. I don't envy the BLM at all on this.

    I'm staying away from the cattle debate. Having worked on cattle ranchs in Texas in August I have first hand knowledge what a PITA it is to balance grazing, water etc.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    They really don't help their cause by not allowing people in to see what's going on. Alot of the mustangs are now "housed" on private sites - so again - no access. If they would let people see what happens, it would be much better for them.
    Except that "public" is today someone with a video camera, great editing skills and an agenda.

    Why would anyone let someone like that in to do their customary hatchet, yellow journalism job, if they can avoid that headache?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258

    Default

    There was an article out not long ago about the people doing the actual roundups. They were talking about hiding any horse that died. Also I think, Tuesday a stallion collapsed and died during round up. Apparently this has happened too many times.
    You really think the BLM doesn't have their own agenda??
    I'm glad you believe our government so thoroughly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Except that "public" is today someone with a video camera, great editing skills and an agenda.

    Why would anyone let someone like that in to do their customary hatchet, yellow journalism job, if they can avoid that headache?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leilatigress View Post
    All aboard the train wreck of the day. *passes out juice, coffe and donuts.*

    I've already danced to this tune once about the BLM and their "management" of wild horses. The irony of the fact these horses really have been here for centuries and helped America become what it is today doesn't matter one whit to plenty who think they are not Native and should be all destroyed and gone. Never mind plenty of those horses have actually had a hand in making the horse breeds they breed and love so much. I have no issues with the wild populations being managed but I think there needs to be better checks and balances on the BLM and a serious audit needs to be done ASAP.
    Don't you have your history backwards there?

    Those horses are FERAL horses, that escaped or were let loose there to fend for themselves.
    Those were horses of established breeds, many times managed loosely by the locals by bringing in more, specific stallions and rounding up and using and selling what they caught.
    What old timers at the turn of the 1800 to 1900 used to do also is, noticing that if left on their own those horses reverted to a basic 13.2 to 14 hand "scrub" horse, they culled those and added TBs and draft horses regularly, so the offspring may be more valuable for riding and using horses.

    Those mixed horses we have in those areas today were not by any stretch of the imagination any one breed original horses, other than a very few people here and there, that fancy calling them "special" because they decided to do so.

    Not that is anything wrong with that, but a real "breed" they are not.
    Those feral horses are what horses revert to if left to breed on their own, your equivalent of the generic "shades of brown dog with white markings", found in the genes of every dog breed today, that dogs revert to if let to bred on their own for some generations.

    The HMOs that were managed more carefully for longer by the local people in the area, like the ones in some Oregon ranges, are considerably better horses for riding horses than those of other regions, that degraded more.

    This is a book anyone interested in these matters may want to read, that explains much of the controversy, without taking sides, just the facts:

    http://www.oregonslivinglegends.com/



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258

    Default

    More recent findings - do your own research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Don't you have your history backwards there?

    Those horses are FERAL horses, that escaped or were let loose there to fend for themselves.
    Those were horses of established breeds, many times managed loosely by the locals by bringing in more, specific stallions and rounding up and using and selling what they caught.
    What old timers at the turn of the 1800 to 1900 used to do also is, noticing that if left on their own those horses reverted to a basic 13.2 to 14 hand "scrub" horse, they culled those and added TBs and draft horses regularly, so the offspring may be more valuable.

    Those mixed horses we have in those areas today were not by any stretch of the imagination any one breed original horses, other than a very few people here and there, that fancy calling them "special" because they decided to do so.

    Not that is anything wrong with that, but a real "breed" they are not.
    Those feral horses are what horses revert to if left to breed on their own, your equivalent of the generic "shades of brown dog with white markings", found in the genes of every dog breed today, that dogs revert to if let to bred on their own for some generations.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    More recent findings - do your own research.
    Maybe YOU ought to do so?
    I was not thru editing, go read again and the link I posted.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,949

    Default

    Do you really think that NON PROFIT organization doesn't has an agenda?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,258



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,949

    Default

    What so many of you, that don't live in this part of the SW are not understanding is that we are in a very deep, long lasting drought.

    EVERYONE has cut stocking rates, ranchers are carrying half the cattle they did before this drought started in 1991 and so are cattle permits, some have been eliminated altogether, some are down to a few weeks A YEAR only.

    Do you really think it is ok to let feral horses keep reproducing, today there are three times more feral horses than when they set the limits and ranges by law, for them AS SYMBOLS, not as thriving herds to go and multiply and keep using more and more ranges.

    Feral horses don't belong in some of those areas, not all year around, not in the numbers they are there today, not without destroying those ranges and so making a desert of them so even the native wild life can't survive there.

    We are going into weather patterns similar to those in the big droughts of the 1930's, just part of how the weather fluctuates in the SW and the droughts won't quit until the patterns change, probably not for another 20 years.

    These are not easy times for anyone, including the BLM and the feral horses they want to protect best they can, but don't want to protect in such numbers that it becomes at the cost of all other they are told to manage.

    Anyway, these lawsuits are publicity grabbing moves to keep the donations flowing in, because lately, I am sure, with the economy tanking, even those very rich non profits have been hurting.



Similar Threads

  1. ASPCA Maclay
    By ballisticgirl in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Oct. 27, 2011, 02:44 AM
  2. ASPCA commercial
    By sketcher in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Dec. 27, 2010, 12:53 AM
  3. Entries and ASPCA #
    By dorthyinoz in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Apr. 4, 2010, 09:52 PM
  4. ASPCA hit with racketeering lawsuit
    By ThisTooShallPass in forum Off Course
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: Feb. 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
  5. 2006 ASPCA Maclay Finals
    By eq1234 in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 263
    Last Post: Nov. 7, 2006, 05:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •