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  1. #1
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    Default Lou Dobbs Horse Farm and Illegal Immigrants Hit the News

    Uh oh. Be careful out their you CotHers. Local reporters may be snooping around.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...cG9ydGxvdWRvYg--

    The liberal Nation magazine, in a yearlong investigation conducted with the Investigative Fund at the Nation Institute, found that "Dobbs has relied for years on undocumented labor for the upkeep of his multimillion-dollar estates and the horses he keeps for his 22-year-old daughter, Hillary, a champion show jumper."

    The Nation's Isabel Macdonald writes that while Dobbs has bashed employers for hiring immigrants without papers, he "has been far from vigilant about the status of workers laboring on his own properties." (The Nation has long editorialized against Dobbs and those who agree with him on immigration.)

    Dobbs owns a 300-acre estate in Sussex, N.J., and a winter home in West Palm Beach, Fla. His daughter keeps five show horses worth about $1 million each at several stables; the horses are owned by the Dobbs Group, of which Lou Dobbs is president.

    Macdonald spoke with several immigrants who were employed to work on winter property and helped with the upkeep of Dobbs' horses at stables in Vermont and Florida. "I looked after Dobbs' horses while I was illegal," said one man. Another worker said that he believed Hillary Dobbs knew they didn't have papers. (The workers did not give their real names for fear of deportation.)
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier



  2. #2
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    Default

    In our area, where 1/3 of USA born citizens are of hispanic descent, it is very hard to be an employer and not at some time have someone slip on you.

    You can't ask too many questions, it is illegal.
    You have to take their assurances and whatever paperwork you can legally ask for at face value, even if it may be falsified, those are sold in every street corner around here.
    Even if you get your barn workers from the government unemployement agency labor pool, you may end up with some illegal with bogus paperwork.

    Much less with subcontractors, you can't be responsible for who they employ, even if your contract demands there be only legal workers, because they too can't always tell.

    There is no good solution, really.



  3. #3
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    Default

    But avoiding nationally televised hypocrisy is always a great place to start. What a blowhard. Good job, Nation.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    But avoiding nationally televised hypocrisy is always a great place to start. What a blowhard. Good job, Nation.



  5. #5
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    I you will read the article, you will see that he had his horses boarded at a show stable.

    Boarded.... Do you get it?

    Dobbs does not hire and fire at his boarding stable.

    I eat lunch regularly at a very nice place that does have a large number of Mexican employees. I have asked the management very blunt questions about those employees and have been assured that they are all legal.

    Now pray tell what I as a customer can do beyond that?

    Am I supposed to demand that each employee show me his papers before I order my lunch?

    Suppose for the sake of argument I should and they produce them. Can I determine from looking at them whether they are legit?

    Or should I take my laptop to the table and research the papers before I order?

    Had the illegal been in his own household or his business, you might have a reason to criticize and you might not.

    Just ask Meg Whitman how easy it is to determine the value of the papers.

    If you dislike Dobbs, say so but don't be stupid.

    CSSJR


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    I am sure he just boarded himself at the winter estate, too...

    Nah, that egg becomes him well, i the middle of the face and all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    But avoiding nationally televised hypocrisy is always a great place to start. What a blowhard. Good job, Nation.
    Do you know the NATION is a communist rag?

    From this link:
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...223/The-Nation

    In 1918 Oswald Garrison Villard became editor, and The Nation ended its affiliation with the New York Evening Post and began moving steadily toward the political left. Its circulation dwindled to a few thousand but then, when one issue was refused mailing by the postmaster general, began a recovery. The magazine became vocal in its admiration of the Bolsheviks in Russia and ardently advocated U.S. recognition of the Soviet government, which took place in 1933. Subsequent changes in ownership and editorship kept the journal’s staff and readers in some suspense about its location on the spectrum of the left, with occasional periods of general accord, as during The Nation’s outspoken opposition to the tactics of U.S. Senator Joseph R. McCarthy in the 1950s and to the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. It received grants from supporters to augment its modest circulation and advertising revenues.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssutton View Post
    I you will read the article, you will see that he had his horses boarded at a show stable.

    Boarded.... Do you get it?

    Dobbs does not hire and fire at his boarding stable.

    I eat lunch regularly at a very nice place that does have a large number of Mexican employees. I have asked the management very blunt questions about those employees and have been assured that they are all legal.

    Now pray tell what I as a customer can do beyond that?

    Am I supposed to demand that each employee show me his papers before I order my lunch?

    Suppose for the sake of argument I should and they produce them. Can I determine from looking at them whether they are legit?

    Or should I take my laptop to the table and research the papers before I order?

    Had the illegal been in his own household or his business, you might have a reason to criticize and you might not.

    Just ask Meg Whitman how easy it is to determine the value of the papers.

    If you dislike Dobbs, say so but don't be stupid.

    CSSJR
    Well...technically. The several news articles I have read (there is more than one) from different sources, actually all tend to agree that the specific people were grooms/workers -A. hired to attend to her horses personally, ie, paid by her or her father, they were not barn employees as they travelled with the horses throughout the year from barn to barn B. the others worked on his estate. So I'm unsure how the boarding farm would even be at fault here... Just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.



  9. #9
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    Macdonald spoke with several immigrants who were employed to work on winter property and helped with the upkeep of Dobbs' horses at stables in Vermont and Florida


    yeah, he had no influence...

    And ZOH MY GOSH a communist rag uncovered his double standard! They need to be shot for that, right?!

    Oh come on, he got caught with his pants down!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  10. #10
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    I do recall reading that also.

    You may be correct and probably are since the grooms traveled, although it is possible that the barn still paid them.

    One might do that in order to make one's record keeping simplified.

    Since we don't know, restraint is wiser than vociferous criticism.

    CSSJR



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssutton View Post
    I do recall reading that also.

    You may be correct and probably are since the grooms traveled, although it is possible that the barn still paid them.

    One might do that in order to make one's record keeping simplified.

    Since we don't know, restraint is wiser than vociferous criticism.

    CSSJR
    Nice recovery.

    But for Mr Super Clean to be caught with illegals...that's pie in the face, no matter how you twist and turn it. I am sure his legal eagles with give it the appropriate spin.

    But don't knock journalists for doing their work. Otherwise you come under the suspicion to get your news from Glenn Beck!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  12. #12
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    The Nation is a fine and serious publication, cssutton. I didn't hear anyone suggest that the accusations are untrue, merely that it's pretty easy to find oneself accidentally hiring undocumented workers.

    I stand by my statement. If you don't want to find yourself looking stupid for saying one thing (or rather, shouting it, on television and the internet) and doing another, it's not that hard to prevent.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Nice recovery.

    But for Mr Super Clean to be caught with illegals...that's pie in the face, no matter how you twist and turn it. I am sure his legal eagles with give it the appropriate spin.

    But don't knock journalists for doing their work. Otherwise you come under the suspicion to get your news from Glenn Beck!
    Not a bad source.

    You might try it.

    CSSJR



  14. #14
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    Now I know you are kidding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  15. #15
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    alagirl, he's not kidding. NONE of them are kidding. If that doesn't 'skeer' you half to death, I don't know what would.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  16. #16
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    Default I don't think Mr. Dobbs is stupid..

    I think he asked as much as he felt he needed to. I'd rather hire undocumented workers than women, frankly, who often, when faced with unemployment, find some way to try to extricate $$ for alleged sexual harrassment.

    Come on now, I think that Glen Beck is a very suitable news source, so is Bill OReilly and, ever since Katrina, I've got to have my Shepard Smith fix for the news when I get done in the barn.


    Now, I don't believe in "profiling" but... when one ethnic group seems to have a stereotype, ie, Germans have bad tempers, the Irish drink a wee bit too much, Italians are members of, an elite group of highly respected families, then well, you've got to figure that came from something, not just well, let's say that Paddy drinks a bit, even though no one else of that nationality does (flamesuit on, I'm Irish as Paddy's pig)

    Do I think that based on the faces Mr. Dobbs and his daughter saw on paydays MIGHT have prompted him to do a bit more digging, since folks are just itching to find a "bad guy-hypocrite"? Yeah.

    But they weren't actually on his payroll.



  17. #17
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    Even if the barn paid them, according to Mr. Dobbs himself, that's no excuse. He goes after others who hire contractors who hire illegals, after all.

    So now he's in that same boat. He hired contractors who pay or paid illegal immigrants. In the past, he's said that people who did just that are just as culpable as those who hire illegals in the first place. So would he hold himself responsible?

    I've actually wondered about this in the past, having heard his rants about illegal immigrants, and known he supports those very same people when he pays the bills on his daughter's show horses. If he's ever been to a horse show, I expect he would know that was going on.

    I think, though, if anything, the article in the Nation definitely highlights the need to address the immigration question from a more realistic standpoint. The hoops that must be jumped through in order to get visas or working permits and what have you sounds ridiculous and archaic, and there has to be a better way.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    alagirl, he's not kidding. NONE of them are kidding. If that doesn't 'skeer' you half to death, I don't know what would.

    Saying Glenn Beck spreads news? THAT is a joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  19. #19
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    I'd rather hire undocumented workers than women, frankly, who often, when faced with unemployment, find some way to try to extricate $$ for alleged sexual harrassment.
    This is untrue and a disgusting statement to make.


    Dobbs is a right wing extremist who does not believe that what he preaches applies to his own privileged self.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Saying Glenn Beck spreads news? THAT is a joke.
    Where did you learn about Cass Sunstein? Or have you?

    Where did you learn about Mark Lloyd?

    Where did you learn that Anita Dunn turns to Mao for inspiration?

    Where did you learn all of the details of Van Jones life, past as present?

    There are a dozen others.

    How much space did the NYT allot to this crew?

    Who wrote the Obummer, the Marxist now posing as a Fascist, health bill?

    I know, you saw that in your local paper, right?

    We have a problem. You know what is exposed to the world when your head is in the sand?

    Time to look around.

    CSSJR



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