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  1. #1
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    Jan. 7, 2014
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    Default Pulling shoes - losing my mind

    My horse has recently been pulling shoes more than I've dealt with in the 3 years I've had him and I'm about to lose my mind from it because I feel like his feet are in a better state now than they were 2 months ago. He wears pull-on bell boots 24/7 - the Italian gum kind, and is on SmartHoof, which has really helped his hoof growth and quality.

    We're working on correcting his angles right now because he has long toes and contracted heels (heels have been that way since I got him), which weren't helping his already thin soles ("typical" TB feet). He also has mild osteopedalitis in his R fore. I switched farriers about 2 cycles ago from a more old-school farrier to one who specializes in laminitis and therapeutic shoeing. He was wearing regular shoes but today is being put in heart bars because of the state of his feet from pulling so often.

    There some tension with his turnout buddy, who is alpha and does a bit of chasing when it's time to come in, so I don't think that's helping the pulling issue... Any recommendations on specific bell boots or ways to prevent shoe pulling? Anything better than the pull-ons I've been relying on? I've looked at ThinLine Gator Bootz, which look promising but no one I know has tried them.
    H20594



  2. #2
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    Dec. 16, 2006
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    'Murica
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    Default

    I don't know what they're called, so this is probably only going to be minimally helpful, but I think somewhere out there you can find plastic covers that just go on your horse's heels. Like a half bell boot kind of thing. I can see it in my mind but I can't find them out there on the internet.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustTheTicket View Post
    I don't know what they're called, so this is probably only going to be minimally helpful, but I think somewhere out there you can find plastic covers that just go on your horse's heels. Like a half bell boot kind of thing. I can see it in my mind but I can't find them out there on the internet.
    Is it Shoe Secure? I thought about those but again, no one I know has personal experience so I just get iffy... but they're tempting! It looks like all you do is use their special studs to screw them on?
    H20594



  4. #4
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    Dec. 16, 2006
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    'Murica
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    Default

    That's what I was thinking of! I haven't used them, so I can't help you there. But if they aren't too pricy, maybe give them a shot? Or ask your farrier if he has any experience with them.



  5. #5
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    Aug. 16, 2013
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    Edwardsville, IL
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    Default

    If his feet are cracking and loosening the nails try Keratex hoof hardener.

    If not and he is losing shoes because the alpha horse is chasing him, is there any way to swap turnout groups?



  6. #6
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    Jul. 24, 2006
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    Seattle, WA
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    Default

    Only "boots" I have EVER found to actually prevent shoe pulling are the Shoe Secures.

    So the caveat is that this is assuming that the shoe pulling is not being caused nor exacerbated by your farrier. Although even in that case the Shoe Secures should still keep the shoes on.

    I've posted many times here about my young warmblood who was a horrible shoe puller until he finally grew into his body. As in 6 or 7 pulled shoes each shoeing cycle regardless of what we did. And that was over multiple (2 very good and 1 mediocre) farriers and even with farriers wrapping his heels super tight so there wasn't anything to grab on to. Once the horse matured, he stopped pulling so many shoes. In those in-between years, though, I found the Shoe Secures and gave them a try. Absolute game changer!

    TheJenners may be able to chime in here too (or you could PM her). She started using Shoe Secures on her gelding relatively recently as well.
    __________________________________
    Flying F Sport Horses
    Horses in the NW



  7. #7
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    Jan. 7, 2014
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    JustTheTicket - looks like they're about $50 a pair, plus the studs. I think they're a UK product, which could be why I haven't heard of many people using them.

    cincoandrain - Surprisingly, we haven't had issues with his hooves cracking; we've avoided that particular issue, which is great! It's definitely him physically wrenching the shoe off, so it may be time to talk to BO... they go out in pair turnout, so there's not a ton of options in changing things up but I'm tired of wrapping hooves and not being able to ride.
    H20594



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWjumper View Post
    Only "boots" I have EVER found to actually prevent shoe pulling are the Shoe Secures.

    So the caveat is that this is assuming that the shoe pulling is not being caused nor exacerbated by your farrier. Although even in that case the Shoe Secures should still keep the shoes on.

    I've posted many times here about my young warmblood who was a horrible shoe puller until he finally grew into his body. As in 6 or 7 pulled shoes each shoeing cycle regardless of what we did. And that was over multiple (2 very good and 1 mediocre) farriers and even with farriers wrapping his heels super tight so there wasn't anything to grab on to. Once the horse matured, he stopped pulling so many shoes. In those in-between years, though, I found the Shoe Secures and gave them a try. Absolute game changer!

    TheJenners may be able to chime in here too (or you could PM her). She started using Shoe Secures on her gelding relatively recently as well.
    I don't believe it's being caused by the farrier because he's not shoeing properly but possibly by the fact that now that we're working to correct his feet, he could be at an odd point that's causing this issue? If that makes sense? So I feel like this is a temporary issue to a degree.

    My horse is a very large-bodied TB - I often get asked if I'm sure he's not a warmblood. He's always been clumsy to a degree and it just gets emphasized because he's got so much body to him. It's good to hear that someone used Shoe Secure and had a great experience! When you used them, did you have the farrier drill the stud holes in the plastic? I'm open to ordering them but if the farrier has to do the set-up, I'll have to wait until the next appointment, which is 5 weeks from today, and that makes me nervous!
    H20594



  9. #9
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    Nov. 4, 2015
    Location
    Central NY
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    Default

    The heart bars might help on their own.

    My mare was (knocks on wood) a chronic shoe-puller until we started her in pads that simulate heart bars. She has a very low heel naturally and we put the pads on as a temporary measure to help her build enough heel to support heart bars. That was two years ago and we are still in the pads--and the number of pulled shoes is now countable on one hand.

    I don't know that this is the exact pad my farrier uses, but it sure looks like it: http://www.centaurforge.com/Myron-Mc...uctinfo/80300/

    Point being...if you can get his heel built up, the problem might resolve.



  10. #10
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    Jul. 24, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by NurseHorsey View Post
    I don't believe it's being caused by the farrier because he's not shoeing properly but possibly by the fact that now that we're working to correct his feet, he could be at an odd point that's causing this issue? If that makes sense? So I feel like this is a temporary issue to a degree.

    My horse is a very large-bodied TB - I often get asked if I'm sure he's not a warmblood. He's always been clumsy to a degree and it just gets emphasized because he's got so much body to him. It's good to hear that someone used Shoe Secure and had a great experience! When you used them, did you have the farrier drill the stud holes in the plastic? I'm open to ordering them but if the farrier has to do the set-up, I'll have to wait until the next appointment, which is 5 weeks from today, and that makes me nervous!
    I can say that my TB went through a pretty awkward foot phase after I had a bad farrier let his toes get out of control and run his heels under. It took my next (and current) farrier almost a year to get to the point where his feet look good....well, as good as they are ever going to be. So, yes, I think what you're saying makes sense.

    I will also add, as I have in a few other threads, that my farrier started using copper nails this last spring. They made a huge difference in the quality of his hoof wall (though I will say that they made no difference on any of my other horses who all already have extremely good hoof quality), so that might be something to think about in addition.

    And then to answer the questions - yes, I had my farrier follow the instructions that come with the shoe secures. He measured and drilled the holes in the shoe secures and, of course, in the shoes. You could drill the holes in the shoe secures yourself very easily, but that's not the issue - you can't start using shoe secures in the middle of a shoeing cycle unless your horse already has shoes that are drilled and tapped.
    __________________________________
    Flying F Sport Horses
    Horses in the NW



  11. #11
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    Nov. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Call me crazy but i think the obvious thing here is to stop turning him out with another horse, especially one who chases him.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quelah View Post
    Call me crazy but i think the obvious thing here is to stop turning him out with another horse, especially one who chases him.
    Yeah, the more I'm sitting thinking about it, the more I feel I need to talk to BO about the dynamic between him and his turnout buddy... They're fine together nearly all day but when it's time to start coming in, the chasing starts because alpha pony decides the gate area is his. I've just been hoping it would fizzle out once they were used to each other. Ugh.
    H20594



  13. #13
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    Oct. 27, 2015
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    In desperation I bought a pair of weaver bell boots from the local farm store after my gelding destroyed his millionth pair of pull ons and have had more luck with those. The gum boots were soft enough that when he overreach he could grab a shoe through them, plus he was popping them off all the time. I keep two pairs to rotate for when they get wet.

    Changing the style of bell boots helped but the bigger factor in improving my shoe pulling issues is that my current farrier sets the shoe back just slightly from the toe to increase break over.



  14. #14
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    Sherwood Park, Alberta
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    An old school vet once told me that my gelding was pulling his shoes because he needed fetlock injections done. Did the injections and the pulling stopped immediately... Apparently if they can't break the fetlock fast enough, the foot doesn't get out of the way and the shoes come off.



  15. #15
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    Oct. 19, 2015
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    No advice but I can commiserate! My gelding will not keep his hind shoes on. Just got the last one tapped back on only 5 days after he was reset. Fortunately all the nails came out with that one but the one before wasn't so lucky and the one before that my coach and I had to pull off (really good for his feet I'm sure...).

    I think my problem is related to the heavy rain we've had and the fact all the pens have about a foot of mud. However, it is still extremely frustrating especially since all the other horses living in same conditions are keeping their shoes on!



  16. #16
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    Jan. 7, 2014
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    Update now that I've seen his new shoes (BO held him for the farrier, I told her to let him do whatever he needed): heart bars with copper sulfate pads and epoxy all around the outer hoof to encapsulate the rim of the shoes.

    He took as much toe off as he reasonably could as well and made his angle as upright as he could at this point. Apparently the frogs were contracted also and he had some thrush, which must've been residual from what I've been treating with Thrush Buster. He said if he pulls another shoe again, he's going to cast him because he keeps pulling wall off also.

    So I double bell booted him - the inner pair is just a little wider than the outer pair, so there's complete coverage. I'm hopeful that with the heart bars, which will support his frogs and give some more overall support while we're growing sole, will change how he moves in a positive way. And I'm going to discuss his turnout situation.

    So we'll see how this cycle goes! I'm definitely going to talk to him about the Shoe Secures though - I think those might just be a good overall option to keep for him!
    H20594



  17. #17

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    Have you considered hoof boots over shoes in turnout? Might be worth a try.
    I'm actually going to try old Cavallo simple boots over shoes for my thin soled, shoe pulling TB on our next trail ride!

    If it works, it'll be far less pricey than all the farrier visits and fixes for torn up hooves! If not, they're handy to have for abscesses and pulled shoes anyway!



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OllieOxenFree View Post
    Have you considered hoof boots over shoes in turnout? Might be worth a try.
    I'm actually going to try old Cavallo simple boots over shoes for my thin soled, shoe pulling TB on our next trail ride!

    If it works, it'll be far less pricey than all the farrier visits and fixes for torn up hooves! If not, they're handy to have for abscesses and pulled shoes anyway!
    I did actually! I ran around the area the weekend he pulled the last shoe searching for any hoof boot available but nothing fit him quite right. Of course, I then paid for overnight shipping on a pair of Cavallo Slim boots from Riding Warehouse... and they almost fit but just couldn't accommodate his hoof fully. He's a difficult fit right now because his toes have been so long that finding a boot that will fit them while we fix his feet has been challenging, to say the least.

    I'm going to exchange them for the next size up - I definitely want a pair of boots on hand at all times now!
    Last edited by NurseHorsey; Oct. 20, 2016 at 09:31 AM.
    H20594


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  19. #19
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    Jan. 2, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustTheTicket View Post
    I don't know what they're called, so this is probably only going to be minimally helpful, but I think somewhere out there you can find plastic covers that just go on your horse's heels. Like a half bell boot kind of thing. I can see it in my mind but I can't find them out there on the internet.
    They are called scalpers. Race horses use them. They are also gummy like the gummy bell boots.



  20. #20
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    Jul. 24, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by DressageFancy View Post
    They are called scalpers. Race horses use them. They are also gummy like the gummy bell boots.
    Scalpers, quarter bell boots, and grab boots are made to protect the coronary band and heel bulbs, not the back edge of the shoe. Lots of jumpers wear quarter boots in the ring.

    I think the problem is that they wouldn't stay in place during turnout and again they don't cover the back of the shoe. For riding purposes there are some great boots that I use on my guy in the show ring that are a leather double buckle hinged-type bell boot made for (I think) saddlebreds (?) - would have to look again. But they also wouldn't work great for full time turnout.
    __________________________________
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    Horses in the NW



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