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  1. #21
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    true dat, but there are a lot of people who make bad decisions for their horse every day (and a lot more who try to make the right decision). It's tough to craft a rule entirely around the former's actions...
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2006
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    258

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    From a purely uniformed point of view, please help me understand why stacking NSAIDS is beneficial? Maybe I have missed something in the medical literature. I don't know but I would like to understand the perspective as to why this rule would be detrimental to the sport? How long are these horses on the road to need this many drugs?

    From the medical literature I read, extended use and stacking of NSAIDS lead to renal lesions, potentially ulcerative colitis, while failing to alleviate the condition causing the lameness. While combinations such as bute and ketophen can be used synergistically to help short term in a CLINICAL environment, the above mentioned side effects become prevalent as time is extended beyond a few weeks. To me, the rule makes great sense and can help force horsemanship back onto the trainers and riders.

    Reed
    _----------------------------------
    Not uninformed at all.
    Never said rule would be detrimental to the sport either.
    Agree with the rule 100%
    Think horses will be put out of jobs and some owners who are uninformed will be left with an expensive animal that they do not understand why it can't compete anymore.
    I think you understood my post differently than it was intended or maybe I misread your intentions.
    I am sure you and I are on the same page.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2004
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    ILLINOIS :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC and the Sunshine Band View Post
    Alot of posters on this board get very agressive and defensive about things because they don't like to be told what they do to their horses to get them to the ring may not actually have the horses best interest in mind, irregardless of what their trainers tell them.
    Or, they get defensive because they don't agree with the camp who believe that no horse should be given anything for any reason, all shows are evil, and those who do show are sadists.

    (FWIW, the most any horse of mine has received at a show was Banamine--not a stacker-druggie. )
    "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2002
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    my desk
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    With regard to the Banamine/colic issue, it seems the easiest way to avoid this problem would be to switch your NSAID of choice to Banamine (i.e. give Banamine instead of Bute as your regular NSAID for comfort, not just colic). Depending on timing and dosage, this would still allow a horse that may have had a minor colic incident to show.

    Also, per the USEF NSAID FAQs posted on the USEF website:

    When does the single NSAID rule go into effect?
    The rule has an effective date of 12/1/2011.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2006
    Posts
    258

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    wow i had the date way wrong! Thanks for that clarification!
    The rule doesnt bother me because I dont need 2.
    I agree with the banamine idea with the colic issue, especially if you have a horse prone to colic episodes like a cribber.
    I did have a lg pony once that was better with Bute than Banamine.
    My exp has been that bony issues benefit more from bute and soft tissue more from banamine.
    You just have to know your horse and know what works the best!
    Dont care what naysayers say.....we take things when we hurt from something or another and our horses have to cart our butts around so they deserve a bit of assistance! I bet if they could they would go to the trunk themselves and grab that tube and dose themselves! Especially after a long day of showing!



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2002
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    Cow County, MD
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    7,106

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    I bet if they could they would go to the trunk themselves and grab that tube and dose themselves! Especially after a long day of showing!
    I bet they would, too, but I also bet they would rather roll over and keep on snoring in the straw the next day!
    Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,556

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    Will this put alot of really nice horses out of a job?
    For the foreseeable future, unfortunately the answer is yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    I agree with the new rule myself. Def didn't want to open a "can o worms" here so sorry if that is the case.
    I did try a search but what I got was that horrible Inj Mag thread.
    I was just wondering about the ones that get the 1 plus maybe Surpass or they have been getting Ketophen 6 hours out. I DO NOT have one that needs anything beyond the Ban, and Legend before shows so that is not why I asked. Just curious. Mainly thinking about the ones that really work hard to get the number of shows per year done that are asked of them.
    And yes for the reasons you mention. Older horses coming back down the ranks will end their show careers sooner than they would have otherwise. I also predict more money spent on joint injections (and more) in an effort to stave off the effects of Osteorthritis just as long as they can.

    Since we are eating popcorn, can I add a rant?

    You don't need to say "Oh and by the way and just to be sure, I have never given My Horse anything more than Blah Blah of Whatever."

    Look, I don't know how you medicate your horse. I don't care.
    Since I don't know....
    and you know I'll never know....
    and you know better than to admit the bad stuff you do do....
    (even though no one on the internet knows..... or cares.....)
    or rather, the internetting public doesn't care because they know they will never know.....

    Can we dispense with the credentialling?

    Did you get the part about "I don't care?" and why?
    Last edited by mvp; Sep. 27, 2010 at 07:09 PM. Reason: too many 'knows!'
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    35,308

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    For the foreseeable future, unfortunately the answer is yes.



    And yes for the reasons you mention. Older horses coming back down the ranks will end their show careers sooner than they would have otherwise. I also predict more money spent on joint injections (and more) in an effort to stave off the effects of Osteorthritis just as long as they can.
    BUT-

    ALL the REAL veterinary/medical testing shows that the NSAID stacking ISN'T making the horses any sounder, or in less pain.

    So when they go back down to ONE NSAID, the horese will NOT be lamer or in more pain.

    AFAI can see, the only change would be that people who use an NSAIDg other than bute on a regular basis would have to scratch when a horse colics (rather than adding banamine). But the bute-banamine combination is ALREADY banned, so really not a lot of change there.

    But the non-colic-prone horse isn't going to end its career any sooner.

    It is the trainers who THINK that NSAID stacking works that will be in distress, not the horses themselves.
    Last edited by Janet; Sep. 27, 2010 at 06:37 PM.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Keswick, VA
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    But the bute-banamine combination is ALREADY banned, so really not a lot of change there.
    I agree, not much change on the colic situation front. The greater majority of people, in my experience, use bute as their one NSAID (except for those that use Banamine for this very reason). The bute users have never (well, since the 80's anyway) been able to medicate for colic and show with a med report, since there was some language in the rules about the med report not being a viable option for getting around the Bute-Banamine rule. The colic-prone show on Banamine.

    I think personally that there are enough options left in the med rules for most cases. I've used two NSAIDs in a couple of instances, mainly because I like Arquel for feet when the going is rough, but have never noticed it to do anything for anything else, and Arquel + Banamine seemed to cover all the bases. But, most likely Arquel + Robaxin or Arquel + Dex would be just as effective in the same situation.



  10. #30
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    Aug. 20, 2004
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    North East
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    JANET...very well said.



  11. #31
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    Feb. 6, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    I bet if they could they would go to the trunk themselves and grab that tube and dose themselves! Especially after a long day of showing!
    Or maybe they'd just tell you to go pound sand while they spent the day resting...
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



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