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  1. #1
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    Oct. 22, 2006
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    Default new drugs and meds rule

    As I understand it effective on 12/31/2010 the new rule will be enforced that will allow only 1 NSAID be used at rated shows.
    Will this put alot of really nice horses out of a job?
    I do know that if they are not sound they should not compete but that being said there are horses that love doing what they do and they love to show but the stress of doing a show with no turn out etc makes a second NSAID helpful.
    It may keep some from showing week after week after week which I think is a good thing.
    Just wondering what the thoughts are on this rule change.
    I wonder how many owners are aware if they are not involved in the care of their or their kids horses. You know....the kind of owner that just writes the checks and never asks the questions,,,



  2. #2
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    Default

    Is it too early for beer and popcorn?



  3. #3
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    Beer probably. Would you like a mimosa or a Bloody Mary?

    OP, do a search. If I'm not mistaken, there was a HUGE thread on this about a month ago.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    ...makes a second NSAID helpful.
    Every veterinary study I have heard of has clearly shown that a second NSAID is NEVER helpful.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  5. #5
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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  6. #6
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    May. 17, 2000
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    2nd NSAID? Add every doctor I've met along with every vet who says a 2nd NSAID is never helpful.

    But damn, if you can't get it done with dex, robaxin, 1 NSAID, adequan, legend and a new centurion blanket, maybe it's time to rethink the program?

    I'll have my popcorn please.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  7. #7
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    Apr. 3, 2003
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    X(

    .

    what DMK said.



  8. #8
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    Oct. 22, 2006
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    Default

    I agree with the new rule myself. Def didn't want to open a "can o worms" here so sorry if that is the case.
    I did try a search but what I got was that horrible Inj Mag thread.
    I was just wondering about the ones that get the 1 plus maybe Surpass or they have been getting Ketophen 6 hours out. I DO NOT have one that needs anything beyond the Ban, and Legend before shows so that is not why I asked. Just curious. Mainly thinking about the ones that really work hard to get the number of shows per year done that are asked of them.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    2nd NSAID? Add every doctor I've met along with every vet who says a 2nd NSAID is never helpful.

    But damn, if you can't get it done with dex, robaxin, 1 NSAID, adequan, legend and a new centurion blanket, maybe it's time to rethink the program?

    I'll have my popcorn please.
    Didn't you forget Surpass and just a tad of hormone treatment for that "attitude adjustment"?

    I like my popcorn with lots of butter.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  10. #10
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    Oct. 22, 2006
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    Uh oh....now I get it why popcorn etc would come in handy! So sorry like I said.
    I hate to say this but as far as Depo goes I think it is a great thing! Heck teenagers are terrors and hormones can and do help them (BCP's)
    Late middle age women benefit from hormones. Without hormone therapy there would probably be many behind bars for murder!
    Maybe my ex would not be an ex if he could have had depo!
    Depo vs a labotomy?? Its a toss up!
    I should have kept my mouth (or my fingers shut) instead of asking this on this BB but I had no idea the direction it would go!



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Didn't you forget Surpass and just a tad of hormone treatment for that "attitude adjustment"?

    I like my popcorn with lots of butter.

    LOL, absolutely, depo is a mare's best friend (and a few geldings as well). But surpass will fall into the 1 NSAID rule (as well I know - I DO appreciate my diclofenic!)
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  12. #12
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    Mar. 19, 2007
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    No no, you really should ask and talk about it.

    Alot of posters on this board get very agressive and defensive about things because they don't like to be told what they do to their horses to get them to the ring may not actually have the horses best interest in mind, irregardless of what their trainers tell them.


    Hush now.... Don't talk about any of that here, or you'll quickly become unpopular.



  13. #13
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    May. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC and the Sunshine Band View Post
    No no, you really should ask and talk about it.

    Alot of posters on this board get very agressive and defensive about things because they don't like to be told what they do to their horses to get them to the ring may not actually have the horses best interest in mind, irregardless of what their trainers tell them.


    Hush now.... Don't talk about any of that here, or you'll quickly become unpopular.
    <3 you



  14. #14
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    I think surpass will see a drop in sales as it is very commonly stacked with bute, equiox, or robaxin. But if you only have one and have to go with nothing for 7 days before a switch can be made, then I see people going with bute or equoix as more likely than surpass.

    And don't forget, if your horse colics and needs banamine, it cannot show with any other NSAID for 7 days. You also cant show for 7 days if your horse is already on another NSAID (say they're getting surpass on the hocks) and they colic thursday at a show. Under the old rules you would be able to show again on Saturday (assuming horse is healthy), but under the new rules, the horse will be out for full week.

    I think that may do a disservice to horses because owners may choose to withhold banamine to a colicing horse so it can show. We see it many times the week before an FEI event, so I see it going the same way with this. Of course the moral of the story is to have a horse that doesn't need anything the week before and week of showing, but of course we can't all own perfectly healthy 7 year olds
    Last edited by flyracing; Sep. 27, 2010 at 02:26 PM.



  15. #15
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    Feb. 9, 2007
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    does traumeel count as an Nsaid? I never used it but I know several people who do at night as well as a gram of bute after showing, especially when the horses are stabled with NO turnout for weeks on end (as is the case with some at WEF and other shows that last weeks)



  16. #16
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    Oct. 22, 2006
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    [QUOTE=flyracing;5122759]
    robaxin plus 1 NSAID= 2 NSAIDs

    Just so you know
    _________________
    Not true, Robaxin (Methocarbamol) is a Muscle Relaxer
    doesn't count as an NSAID and can be used in conjunction.



  17. #17
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    yup, there is absolutely nothing in the current and future rule prohibiting robaxin+NSAID (not to mention that it isn't an NSAID). Dex is also a potent anti-inflammatory, but NOT an NSAID.

    ETA, while I agree you might find yourself missing a show due to the rule change, and it would kind of suck if that show was Devon and it was one of those "not really a colic" colics (been there done that, gave the shot of banamine) and your horse had already had another NSID that week for whatever reason, it's just part and parcel of all the other "life ain't fair" moments we live through with horses. Set that one up on the shelf next to speshul moments like "hot nail" or "abscess" or "15 stitches and I did everything but wrap you up in bubble wrap and put you in a padded stall?!?!" and then work on honing your sense of humor (so important to horse ownership)
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  18. #18
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dodedo View Post
    As I understand it effective on 12/31/2010 the new rule will be enforced that will allow only 1 NSAID be used at rated shows.
    Will this put alot of really nice horses out of a job?
    I do know that if they are not sound they should not compete but that being said there are horses that love doing what they do and they love to show but the stress of doing a show with no turn out etc makes a second NSAID helpful.
    It may keep some from showing week after week after week which I think is a good thing.
    Just wondering what the thoughts are on this rule change.
    I wonder how many owners are aware if they are not involved in the care of their or their kids horses. You know....the kind of owner that just writes the checks and never asks the questions,,,

    From a purely uniformed point of view, please help me understand why stacking NSAIDS is beneficial? Maybe I have missed something in the medical literature. I don't know but I would like to understand the perspective as to why this rule would be detrimental to the sport? How long are these horses on the road to need this many drugs?

    From the medical literature I read, extended use and stacking of NSAIDS lead to renal lesions, potentially ulcerative colitis, while failing to alleviate the condition causing the lameness. While combinations such as bute and ketophen can be used synergistically to help short term in a CLINICAL environment, the above mentioned side effects become prevalent as time is extended beyond a few weeks. To me, the rule makes great sense and can help force horsemanship back onto the trainers and riders.

    Reed



  19. #19
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Dex is also a potent anti-inflammatory, but NOT an NSAID.
    Yeh, Dex is a STEROID, so it can't be a NON-STEROIDAL Anti Inflamatory Drug.

    But Robaxin is a muscle relaxant, not an Anti Inflamatory (steroidal or non-steroidal)
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  20. #20
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post

    ETA, while I agree you might find yourself missing a show due to the rule change, and it would kind of suck if that show was Devon and it was one of those "not really a colic" colics (been there done that, gave the shot of banamine) and your horse had already had another NSID that week for whatever reason, it's just part and parcel of all the other "life ain't fair" moments we live through with horses. Set that one up on the shelf next to speshul moments like "hot nail" or "abscess" or "15 stitches and I did everything but wrap you up in bubble wrap and put you in a padded stall?!?!" and then work on honing your sense of humor (so important to horse ownership)
    I agree... but I think many people will choose to NOT give banamine in hopes of being able to show rather than sucking it up like you say. For that, I wish banamine could be given with a vets note and filing a med form, but maybe people will prove me wrong and pull their horses and give them banamine on top of their "show prep" or maybe they will just show them anyways...

    No way to make things perfect.



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